Post Reply Same-Sex Marriage Legalization in the United States
Born Again Mod
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Posted 6/26/15
With the recent court decision (as in this morning), same-sex marriage is now legal across the United States. What are your thoughts on the matter?

Personally - I fear the potential consequences of this for churches in the country which choose not to perform them. I do not wish to see an instance where churches are forced to perform services which violate their conscience.

I see it like this - you should not require a Catholic Church to perform a same sex marriage; you also should not require an Islamic Mosque to perform a marriage ceremony between two Mormons. See the parallels? In both cases you are requiring a church or religious institution to perform a marriage which violates their deep held religious beliefs.

I'm afraid we're going to see religious institutions which oppose same-sex marriage losing their tax exempt status in the near future...
Christian
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Posted 6/26/15 , edited 6/26/15

mdmrn wrote:

With the recent court decision (as in this morning), same-sex marriage is now legal across the United States. What are your thoughts on the matter?
I am not surprised by this. It was never a matter of "if" it would happen, it was "when". All I can do is just pray for our country, and try to support political candidates that at least appear like they might do the least (spiritual) harm in office.
Christian
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Posted 6/27/15
While disappointed, I too am not at all surprised at the outcome. If not now, it would likely have happened sooner or later with the way the country and the West in general is going. This is but one more step on our road to decadence and a post-Christian or even outright anti-Christian society, and I think God will allow us to reap the consequences of our (i.e. the society at large) choices. He will give us over, to paraphrase Paul in Romans 1-- and that was written nearly 2000 years ago, and even then it wasn't the first time it happened either, a people turning away from God. Loss of tax-exempt status will also be just the beginning, and child's play compared to what I think will likely come, even in my own lifetime. We Christians in the West have been very blessed, I think I can safely say, to have been able worship freely for quite some time, and even be predominant in the culture. Al-Qaida, Boko Haram, "Daesh" and such are far away now, as are the Chinese Communists or people like Kin Jong Un, but I think we in the West will someday, and sooner than we fear, face persecution like our brethren in the East and elsewhere now face every day, and our spiritual forefathers did in the early church, in the days when Christ Himself and the apostles walked the earth. Even so, if we would be faithful to Him whom we love, and who loved us first, we will be His witnesses (μαρτυρης, or "martyrs") to the very end. May God give us strength and courage. I also pray for His soon coming-- even in my own lifetime would be just fine.
Christian
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Posted 7/2/15
We must be strong and grounded in our beliefs no matter how politically incorrect they are. I feel that there will be a lot of pressure on churches to accept homosexuality. I'm glad that my church, russian orthodox, doesn't budge when it comes to political correctness or western influence in general. America seems like it wants to see just how far it can push itself away from God. I love this country so much and I feel like small groups are destroying it because the majority isn't united. Jesus prayed that we would be one just as HIm and the Father are one. So I think the first step to healing is uniting together as Christians against a common enemy, Satan. Once we become united, then we can discuss what's wrong and how to fix it. So we must continue praying that Christians will unite together and be the kinds of people that God wants us to be.
Christian
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Posted 7/8/15 , edited 1/23/16
Am I the only Christian who is glad with the decision?

What's wrong with homosexuals? They are humans just like us and deserve to be treated equally. I don't see any harm with a man marrying a man. Human overpopulation is a huge problem that is wrecking the planet. Furthermore, there are millions of children in shelters around the world, these homosexuals can save a few of them.

When Jesus came to Earth, he preached gospel that was opposed by the Rabbi's and the Synagogue/Church. He was looked upon as a heretic. Similarly, can we truly say what is written in the Old Testament is in support of Jesus? Many of its verses are not in support of Jesus' teachings. Since Christ Our Savior has shown us the truth in the New Testament, he never mentioned anything about homosexuality. Jesus condemns all form of sexual immorality:

What comes out of you is what defiles you. For from within, out of your hearts, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. All these evils come from inside and defile you. (TNIV, Mark 7:20-23)

But not a single mention, not a single word of homosexuality.

I pray everyday to unite humanity as one. Reading Jesus' words everyday gives me hope that someday, we'll truly come to understand each other. When I see Christians who hate on homosexuals or treat them as if they are worse sinners than ourselves, my heart aches for them. I can't begin to imagine how hard is it to live as a homosexual. They're finally winning the rights they deserve. Let's be happy for them. Let's be happy we have the equality and the respect Jesus wants us to have.
Born Again Mod
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Posted 7/8/15 , edited 12/5/15

prettiiboi wrote:

Am I the only Christian who is glad with the decision?

What's wrong with homosexuals? They are humans just like us and deserve to be treated equally. I don't see any harm with a man marrying a man. Human overpopulation is a huge problem that is wrecking the planet. Furthermore, there are millions of children in shelters around the world, these homosexuals can save a few of them.

When Jesus came to Earth, he preached gospel that was opposed by the Rabbi's and the Synagogue/Church. He was looked upon as a heretic. Similarly, can we truly say what is written in the Old Testament is in support of Jesus? Many of its verses are not in support of Jesus' teachings. Since Christ Our Savior has shown us the truth in the New Testament, he never mentioned anything about homosexuality. Jesus condemns all form of sexual immorality:

What comes out of you is what defiles you. For from within, out of your hearts, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. All these evils come from inside and defile you. (TNIV, Mark 7:20-23)

But not a single mention, not a single word of homosexuality.

I pray everyday to unite humanity as one. Reading Jesus' words everyday gives me hope that someday, we'll truly come to understand each other. When I see Christians who hate on homosexuals or treat them as if they are worse sinners than ourselves, my heart aches for them. I can't begin to imagine how hard is it to live as a homosexual. They're finally winning the rights they deserve. Let's be happy for them. Let's be happy we have the equality and the respect Jesus wants us to have.

I am certain you are not the only one. But, I do disagree with your sentiment on the Bible and homosexuality.

Homosexuals, like everyone else on earth, are sinners (Romans 3:23, 1 John 1). So, there's that. Does it mean we should hate them? Of course not. We should show love to all people - gay, straight, whatever. Does that mean condoning homosexual marriage? No, as it's not Biblical.

Jesus does speak to marriage and to celibacy for those who are eunuchs/born asexual (ex. Matthew 19:1-12). Some have taken that to "those born as eunuchs" to include those born with non-standard sexual attractions (homosexuals included). Some have not. What he does do, however, is reiterates the position that marriage is a union between a man and a women. He does, as you pointed out, reject sexual immorality. The Bible throughout the Old Testament refers to homosexual acts as sexual immorality, so as Christ claims to have fulfilled and not replaced the law, it would make sense that this would not change. Later on, the apostle Paul reiterates that homosexual acts are considered to be sexual immoral and therefore sinful (ex. 1 Cor 6:9–10, 1 Timothy 1:8–11). Meaning? The New Testament reaffirms the Old Testament teaching that homosexual acts are sinful. Some like to reject Paul's views outright as outdated, but in so doing you are rejecting all of what he said. And if you reject part of the Bible, you should reject the whole thing. When you begin to pick and chose what you believe, you are making up your own faith & not abiding in the Word.

What does that mean in everyday life? Should we, as some would call us to do, alienate our homosexual brothers and sisters? Of course not. We should love them. Loving them means reflecting Christ's love, showing compassion, providing where we can. But it also means telling them of their inherent sinfulness. Not as one who is better than them, but as a fellow sinner. The problem I think many Christians get to is they do a few things: 1.) assume lust equates to sexual orientation for homosexuals and 2.) treat homosexuality different from other sins.

On the first - being attracted to someone is not inherently sinful. I can walk down the street and see a beautiful woman and acknowledge her beauty. If I lust after her, start to fantasized about her sexually, or wish she would replace my wife - then I've sinned. If I act on those urges, I've sinned again. The same holds true for a person who is attracted to someone of the same gender. The mere fact that they recognize beauty and find those of the same sex attractive is not a sin in & of itself. Lust is where the sin begins. If that can be curbed, then you can protect yourself (all of us) from said sin.

On the second, homosexual acts are no different in terms of sinfulness of any outside of marriage sexual encounters. But, culturally many Christians treat it differently. We treat homosexual acts as different, in many cases, because we don't understand the mentality. The "other" sin which we would never actually commit becomes worse than the one we commit. That's wrong. Sin is sin and we should act that way, treating all sin as equally wrong crimes against God.

But, here's the catch - Christ can wash away all sins. That's the beauty of it. And it's powerful enough to take away all sins.

Adam Ford has a good take on Christians who (if they're truly saved) do love their homosexual neighbors.

I hope this discussion does not devolve into something negative.
Christian
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Posted 7/8/15 , edited 7/8/15
I see your point. But when I balance giving homosexuals what they feel is right for them versus what Paul said (no matter apostle or not), I feel the homosexuals should be given priority. Jesus' words are set in stone, but not mankind's words. If Jesus didn't explicitly state homosexuality is sexually immoral, then is it really that important to him? If it was a matter of grave concern, I believe Jesus would have explicitly state so.

I do not believe that a Christian must follow every word of the Bible. I believe the Bible is inspired by God, written by man, and therefore the Bible is not infallible.

There are many things in the Bible I do not follow: not eating pork, stoning women for adultery, selling your daughter as a slave, etc.

I believe that God gave us a highly complex brain, logic and common sense for us to think for ourselves and evolve as a species, not to merely listen to another man's word because he held a certain title or authority (whether it be priest, rabbi, or apostle).

Overall, I do agree with most of what you said, with the exception that homosexuality in itself is lust, a sin, or a sinful way of life. I believe just as we can only love women as a companion, homosexuals can only love men as a companion. I cannot imagine or live my life knowing I can only be with a man (personally I'd find it disgusting and I ask Jesus for forgiveness). I believe it is merely the same for the homosexual: he cannot live his life properly with restrictions on who he chooses as his companion.

We can agree to disagree though.
Born Again Mod
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Posted 7/9/15

prettiiboi wrote:

I see your point. But when I balance giving homosexuals what they feel is right for them versus what Paul said (no matter apostle or not), I feel the homosexuals should be given priority. Jesus' words are set in stone, but not mankind's words. If Jesus didn't explicitly state homosexuality is sexually immoral, then is it really that important to him? If it was a matter of grave concern, I believe Jesus would have explicitly state so.

I do not believe that a Christian must follow every word of the Bible. I believe the Bible is inspired by God, written by man, and therefore the Bible is not infallible.

There are many things in the Bible I do not follow: not eating pork, stoning women for adultery, selling your daughter as a slave, etc.

I believe that God gave us a highly complex brain, logic and common sense for us to think for ourselves and evolve as a species, not to merely listen to another man's word because he held a certain title or authority (whether it be priest, rabbi, or apostle).

Overall, I do agree with most of what you said, with the exception that homosexuality in itself is lust, a sin, or a sinful way of life. I believe just as we can only love women as a companion, homosexuals can only love men as a companion. I cannot imagine or live my life knowing I can only be with a man (personally I'd find it disgusting and I ask Jesus for forgiveness). I believe it is merely the same for the homosexual: he cannot live his life properly with restrictions on who he chooses as his companion.

We can agree to disagree though.

We can agree to disagree, but I think you misunderstood what I meant in your last paragraph. I stated that homosexuality isn't equal to lust, but that homosexual lust is equally sinful to heterosexual lust, but that naturally seeing beauty in another person isn't inherently a sin.

We will have to disagree on a number of things. I believe the Bible is the infallible word of God. Does that mean I should follow the dietary restrictions of the Old Testament? Certainly not - as Christ ended those very clearly in the New Testament when He called Peter to dine with Gentiles (Acts 10:9-15 for an example). Are we to stone adulterous women? Certainly not, Christ very clearly showed the issue with that practice (John 8). We as Christians are reminded by Paul, Peter, and the other apostles who wrote in the New Testament that the law was written to remind us of our weakness as people that we were infallible and needed to rely upon the Lord, needed a Savior as we could not save ourselves. They were also given at a time when they lived in a world with a theocratic government where their neighbors committed human sacrifices, had temple prostitutes, marriage occurred in your early teen years, and slavery was common. Times were different and so the law reflected that. Christ established a New Covenant with man in His blood and, therefore, that is the Covenant I as a Gentile believer abide in. As you have mentioned, you do the same.

But, as I discussed, sin is still sin. That doesn't change. What changes is how we rectify that before the Lord, and Christ does that on our behalf. And thank God for that!

Again, we'll have to agree to disagree. I just want to ensure you understand my point and where I'm coming from.
Christian
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Posted 7/10/15
I am also happy about the new development but I can also foresee tension rising between some churches and the government. I believe homosexuals should be allowed to get married anywhere freely but I do believe that churches should have the right to accept or deny the different types of marriages. Churches are not paid to exist by government funding and should not be forced to do anything. Anyway, there are plenty of churches that are accepting homosexuals with love and will counteract the amount of unwilling churches. Hopefully it does not become a big issue.
Christian
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Posted 7/16/15 , edited 7/22/15

mdmrn
But, as I discussed, sin is still sin. That doesn't change. What changes is how we rectify that before the Lord, and Christ does that on our behalf. And thank God for that!


Yep.

Being a Christian is not about happiness in this life, on earth. It's about settling accounts with the Creator in the end.

Edit: found this, it was quite interesting https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPYRXop7aPA
Christian
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Posted 10/10/15
It doesn't affect me directly it's just the world being the world but I see a dangerous road ahead for priest and bakers alike.
Christian
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Posted 10/29/15
I have 10 bi or gay friends that all hate Christianity and want to see the churches and Christians get what they deserve,it frankly scares me when I see them like that. I love them so much but everyday I fight with the fact they are bi or gay and they want to see my brothers and sisters pay.

I pray that the U.S. will wake up to see the harm this will cause,they took out God from the schools and we all have seen how great that has made the school system
Christian
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Posted 12/4/15
Anyone who thinks they're doing good for either society or their friends by telling them what they want to hear over the will of God is mistaken. All sexual immorality will lead the unrepentant to hell. Do you want to explain to Jesus on the Day of Judgment why you told everyone it was fine for them to sin?

“Hear and understand: it is not what goes into the mouth that defiles a person, but what comes out of the mouth; this defiles a person.”

Then the disciples came and said to him, “Do you know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this saying?”

He answered, “Every plant that my heavenly Father has not planted will be rooted up. Let them alone; they are blind guides. And if the blind lead the blind, both will fall into a pit.”

But Peter said to him, “Explain the parable to us.”

And he said, “Are you also still without understanding? Do you not see that whatever goes into the mouth passes into the stomach and is expelled? But what comes out of the mouth proceeds from the heart, and this defiles a person. For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false witness, slander. These are what defile a person. But to eat with unwashed hands does not defile anyone.”
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