First  Prev  1  2  3  4  5  Next  Last
Post Reply Greek debt crisis
1392 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
31 / M / That place beyond...
Offline
Posted 7/1/15
I think the president of Greece is an idiot. And to be honest almost all those left winged political groups are more idiots than the so call right winged parties.
A government debt of $323 billion, it's too much!
Countries like Spain and Italy are growing, at a very slow pace, but they are. Greece is in this mess because of the corruption; there is no other explanation to it.
The Greek government is acting like a spoiled kid, and not taking responsibility of the situation. Hopefully in the coming days/weeks there will be a solution to this problem that can affect Europe and the US
24056 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Offline
Posted 7/1/15 , edited 7/7/15
Because Greece is part of the EU they can no longer print their own currency because now they use the Euro which they cannot issue. When the economy starts taking a downturn, the debt automatically increases because of decreased tax revenues, (if people don't have jobs and businesses are shutting down there is less tax money for the government.) So, now they're in a depression cycle, and since the way you get out of a depression is via stimulus, the government has to go even more into debt than they already are, (because of decreased tax money.) The government must deficit spend to put more money in the private sector and get people back to work. But because Greece can no longer print bills, they have a limited budget and must take a loan from other countries in the EU. But, the contract for taking said loan is austerity, which means they said, "Greece we'll give you this money but you really have to work on your debt problem, so start cutting government spending!" So what happens then? Well, the private sector is in a depression, and they're being told to spend less money, which leads to what? You guessed it! More unemployment because of even less spending going on.

In short, the government needs to have a massive deficit to try to get out of this depression, but they aren't allowed to do so because of austerity imposed by the EU who they're getting a loan from, (and the only reason they need a loan in the first place is because they're a part of the EU.)
14755 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Online
Posted 7/1/15
Also, part of the crisis can be traced back to foreign investments being sold on the mortgage bubble, back when everyone thought that was a sure thing--
As we know from Mitt Romney continually parroting "We don't want another Greece!" over and over again during the '12 election, without really seeming to have a clear idea what that meant. (As usual for his strategy, though, it just sounded good, and he thought it would work twice.)
36195 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
26 / M / Cloud 9.
Offline
Posted 7/1/15
Most of our countries leaders are idiots with no real qualifications.

Not to mention all of them dip their dick in corruption, it's only natural our entire world is in debt. There's no way out of it, debt doesn't disappear out of thin air. It collects interest, and all of the world has it.



Government needs money > Print Loans > Trade Loans for Money > Spend money > Must pay back Loans > Print more Loans to cover existing Loans > Trade Loans for Money > Spend money

It goes in a circle, it's a vicious cycle that will never end unless we restructure society itself. There's no value to money when you just print this shit freely. Bunch of idiots running our world imo.
24056 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Offline
Posted 7/1/15

spensaur wrote:

Most of our countries leaders are idiots with no real qualifications.

Not to mention all of them dip their dick in corruption, it's only natural our entire world is in debt. There's no way out of it, debt doesn't disappear out of thin air. It collects interest, and all of the world has it.



Government needs money > Print Loans > Trade Loans for Money > Spend money > Must pay back Loans > Print more Loans to cover existing Loans > Trade Loans for Money > Spend money

It goes in a circle, it's a vicious cycle that will never end unless we restructure society itself. There's no value to money when you just print this shit freely. Bunch of idiots running our world imo.


I would recommend reading up on Modern Money Theory (MMT) which addresses the issue you refer to. It's really not all that bad. The issue in Greece is entirely different from the thing you described precisely because they can't print money because they're part of the EU. If they could issue money, they'd likely be out of the depression by now.
36195 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
26 / M / Cloud 9.
Offline
Posted 7/1/15

Bantarific wrote:


spensaur wrote:

Most of our countries leaders are idiots with no real qualifications.

Not to mention all of them dip their dick in corruption, it's only natural our entire world is in debt. There's no way out of it, debt doesn't disappear out of thin air. It collects interest, and all of the world has it.



Government needs money > Print Loans > Trade Loans for Money > Spend money > Must pay back Loans > Print more Loans to cover existing Loans > Trade Loans for Money > Spend money

It goes in a circle, it's a vicious cycle that will never end unless we restructure society itself. There's no value to money when you just print this shit freely. Bunch of idiots running our world imo.


I would recommend reading up on Modern Money Theory (MMT) which addresses the issue you refer to. It's really not all that bad. The issue in Greece is entirely different from the thing you described precisely because they can't print money because they're part of the EU. If they could issue money, they'd likely be out of the depression by now.


I don't think printing money with nothing of worth behind it will get you out of depression.
24056 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Offline
Posted 7/1/15 , edited 7/1/15
Then you don't understand money. You don't need a gold standard or some other arbitrarily enforced limit on your currency to get out of a depression. You need stimulus, public sector spending = private sector income.
36195 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
26 / M / Cloud 9.
Offline
Posted 7/1/15

Bantarific wrote:

Then you don't understand money. You don't need a gold standard or some other arbitrarily enforced limit on your currency to get out of a depression.


So you're saying it's okay that we just print money out of thin air with promissory notes saying we'll eventually pay you back with the money we don't have.
21448 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
46 / M / Between yesterday...
Online
Posted 7/1/15
Sigh this is what happens when people don't actually understand how government debt works and the fact that governments aren't families or companies. They unlike companies and families do not have to worry about debt the same way a normally functioning government needs some debt at all times this keeps the wheels turning and allows projects to move forward like infrastructure.

The IMF release papers yesterday that didn't make it into the normal new cycle thats since they released them late in the evening that even with all the things Germany and the other countries are forcing Greece to do won't work in reducing it's deficit big surprise there. Not like all the people that actually studied history and saw that this has never worked in the past.

The issues they are facing now are those created by a former government that wanted to get into the EU allowed for better trade deals and if it had worked would have been good. The issue is Goldman Sachs they created the plan to hide Greece's debt problems to begin with if they had been honest and not done this Greece wouldn't have been able to join the EU until it got it's debt under control but as I stated that really doesn't matter.

A good example as to why this doesn't matter is Japan which has last time I look a debt to GDP ratio of about 230 percent this isn't anything to sneeze at but if you notice Japan isn't freaking out, why is this you ask because they understand it means nothing short term long term sure they may have problems but in the short term let it run specially with low interest rates right now with certain countries.

Point in fact liberals are not the source of the problem they are fighting against the problem in Greece which is austerity which is slowing investment and making it hard not easier for them to dig themselves out of the hole. Best thing that could happen to them now is to exit the EU take up the Drachma again and start printing money and take the hit like Iceland did which is doing just fine now after kicking their government to the curb four times to get folks into power that would tell the IMF and European banks no.

To actually understand why paying off your debt is a bad thing read the following please do if you don't you won't understand why all the debt hawks are lying to you.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/01/03/1176099/-Austerity-doesn-t-work-New-IMF-report-details-the-damage

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/greek-debt-crisis-how-goldman-sachs-helped-greece-to-mask-its-true-debt-a-676634.html

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/01/03/1176099/-Austerity-doesn-t-work-New-IMF-report-details-the-damage

Just calling liberal idiots is shows you don't really understand what we are about and that you don't understand what we are willing to do to protect you. If you want examples I can provide them in detail I will start with the 40 hour work week and go from there if you like.
24056 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Offline
Posted 7/1/15 , edited 7/1/15

spensaur wrote:

So you're saying it's okay that we just print money out of thin air with promissory notes saying we'll eventually pay you back with the money we don't have.


Righto! The government cannot default on its debts unwillingly, they can always create money via keystrokes, (nowadays they literally just type numbers into a computer to create money rather than actually printing bills,) to pay off their debts. You seem to misunderstand, all money is a promissory note. Money is the ultimate IOU. The government creates IOU's that it then gives to the citizens for work. "Well why would I want your IOU?" Says the citizen. "Well," says the government, "I require every citizen to pay me back my IOU's, (dollars) in taxes every year, and if you don't I'll use the police and put you in prison." This is called Chartalism. Taxes, backed by military/police force is what drives the value of the dollar. People accept dollars as currency because they know that they will need said dollars to pay their taxes. The reason everyone else also accepts dollars is because every individual needs to pay taxes, so it is universally valued! You can read more here:

http://neweconomicperspectives.org/2011/09/mmp-blog-14-ious-denominated-in.html

and if you'd rather not jump into the middle of the theory you can read the whole thing here:

http://neweconomicperspectives.org/modern-monetary-theory-primer.html
36195 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
26 / M / Cloud 9.
Offline
Posted 7/1/15

Bantarific wrote:


spensaur wrote:

So you're saying it's okay that we just print money out of thin air with promissory notes saying we'll eventually pay you back with the money we don't have.


Righto! The government cannot default on its debts unwillingly, they can always create money via keystrokes, (nowadays they literally just type numbers into a computer to create money rather than actually printing bills,) to pay off their debts. You seem to misunderstand, all money is a promissory note. Money is the ultimate IOU. The government creates IOU's that it then gives to the citizens for work. "Well why would I want your IOU?" Says the citizen. "Well," says the government, "I require every citizen to pay me back my IOU's, (dollars) in taxes every year, and if you don't I'll use the police and put you in prison." This is called Chartalism. Taxes, backed by military/police force is what drives the value of the dollar. People accept dollars as currency because they know that they will need said dollars to pay their taxes. The reason everyone else also accepts dollars is because every individual needs to pay taxes, so it is universally valued! You can read more here:
http://neweconomicperspectives.org/2011/09/mmp-blog-14-ious-denominated-in.html
and if you'd rather not jump into the middle of the theory you can read the whole thing here:
http://neweconomicperspectives.org/modern-monetary-theory-primer.html


Nope, I completely understand.


I just don't believe it's a correct way of doing things. I am but a small insect in this world so my opinion doesn't matter.
27705 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
27 / M / TX
Offline
Posted 7/1/15
What's happening in Greece and other countries is something the US needs to be concerned with. Many places are simply running out of money and don't have the capital to back it up. Just printing more money is not the solution in the future we may end up burning our money simply to stay warm.


Greece isn't the only place Puerto Rico says they can't pay off their debt.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/puerto-rico-says-it-cannot-pay-its-debt-setting-off-potential-crisis-in-the-us/2015/06/28/cbae1bc4-1e05-11e5-84d5-eb37ee8eaa61_story.html

I predict in the next 15 to 20 yrs were going to see more countries declare that they can't pay off their debts and see a worldwide shift away from standard currency. At least for the EU and any nations in the UN. Middle East is so hard to predict with the changing powers, constant self-inflicted damage to any resources they have but that's a topic for another thread. Right now I would say that the US should study what's going on and prepare themselves as best they can.
24056 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Offline
Posted 7/1/15

J-POP187 wrote:

What's happening in Greece and other countries is something the US needs to be concerned with. Many places are simply running out of money and don't have the capital to back it up. Just printing more money is not the solution in the future we may end up burning our money simply to stay warm.


Greece isn't the only place Puerto Rico says they can't pay off their debt.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/puerto-rico-says-it-cannot-pay-its-debt-setting-off-potential-crisis-in-the-us/2015/06/28/cbae1bc4-1e05-11e5-84d5-eb37ee8eaa61_story.html

I predict in the next 15 to 20 yrs were going to see more countries declare that they can't pay off their debts and see a worldwide shift away from standard currency. At least for the EU and any nations in the UN. Middle East is so hard to predict with the changing powers, constant self-inflicted damage to any resources they have but that's a topic for another thread. Right now I would say that the US should study what's going on and prepare themselves as best they can.


It is fundamentally impossible for a sovereign nation with its own currency to go bankrupt or be unable to pay off its debt. The reason Greece can go bankrupt is because they are like a U.S. State, they have a financial constraint due to their inability to print currency. Puerto Rico also cannot print currency and thus does face a financial constraint. The U.S. will never face an issue like Puerto Rico or Greece unless we decide to stop using the dollar and or pass legislation that forces us to maintain austerity.
27705 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
27 / M / TX
Offline
Posted 7/1/15

Bantarific wrote:


J-POP187 wrote:

What's happening in Greece and other countries is something the US needs to be concerned with. Many places are simply running out of money and don't have the capital to back it up. Just printing more money is not the solution in the future we may end up burning our money simply to stay warm.


Greece isn't the only place Puerto Rico says they can't pay off their debt.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/puerto-rico-says-it-cannot-pay-its-debt-setting-off-potential-crisis-in-the-us/2015/06/28/cbae1bc4-1e05-11e5-84d5-eb37ee8eaa61_story.html

I predict in the next 15 to 20 yrs were going to see more countries declare that they can't pay off their debts and see a worldwide shift away from standard currency. At least for the EU and any nations in the UN. Middle East is so hard to predict with the changing powers, constant self-inflicted damage to any resources they have but that's a topic for another thread. Right now I would say that the US should study what's going on and prepare themselves as best they can.


It is fundamentally impossible for a sovereign nation with its own currency to go bankrupt or be unable to pay off its debt. The reason Greece can go bankrupt is because they are like a U.S. State, they have a financial constraint due to their inability to print currency. Puerto Rico also cannot print currency and thus does face a financial constraint. The U.S. will never face an issue like Puerto Rico or Greece unless we decide to stop using the dollar and or pass legislation that forces us to maintain austerity.


While I see what your saying doesn't simply printing more of your currency simply devalues it? In the end if other countries "however unlikely" see that the US dollar is weakening don't they have the choice of choosing to hold a better off country notes instead of the dollar?
To be honest I only got into economics when I saw this video and got into looking into different countries economies since then. Curious what do you think?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDfNoCjtXvQ
1606 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
M / Earth
Offline
Posted 7/1/15 , edited 7/7/15

ivanchoFAA wrote:

I think the president of Greece is an idiot. And to be honest almost all those left winged political groups are more idiots than the so call right winged parties.
A government debt of $323 billion, it's too much!
Countries like Spain and Italy are growing, at a very slow pace, but they are. Greece is in this mess because of the corruption; there is no other explanation to it.
The Greek government is acting like a spoiled kid, and not taking responsibility of the situation. Hopefully in the coming days/weeks there will be a solution to this problem that can affect Europe and the US


Both sides were complete idiots in running Greece into the ground. The left wing lied to get Greece into the Eurozone and the right wing failed with their austerity policies and resisted popular labor reform after the crash. The EU should also be blamed for their shady tactics in dealing with Greece.
First  Prev  1  2  3  4  5  Next  Last
You must be logged in to post.