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Post Reply Do you think cash will become obsolete in the future?
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Posted 7/9/15 , edited 7/9/15

gvblackmoon wrote:



For starters you can't trade money for gold at a bank as it was under the gold standard as for it being a Pozi scheme it doesn't even meet the requirements to be one there are requirements for this I will post them at the further on. To create money bonds are issued these treasury notes or bonds are then bought back at a later time after having incurred interest these are not IOUs, an IOU is a promissory note that is loan from either a bank or an individual. The money used to purchase bonds is not a loan but an investment in that government.

To use a gold standard introduces risks into the market that have when we have used one make things far worse when you have a crash. Study the first five great depressions all happened while under a gold standard the last one had part of the tools in place and resulted in the tools begin created to stop it from happening again. The 2008 recession could have been far worse, if we had been on a gold standard it would have been a depression as it is we are still digging our way out of it because folks fail to understand one basic tactic used to do so is to invest into the country and put people back to work.


What a Pozi scheme is. If you create a company that takes investments and then you pay back investors with monies brought in from new investors this is a Pozi scheme. This is not what happens with bonds the money collected from taxes goes to paying this back not the money from those investing in new bonds. Now a true Pozi scheme has the person running it vanishing or trying to run away withe the last investment money so that they don't get caught, this is not what happens with bonds they get paid out on time and with the correct interest.

Now if what you are truly complaining about is the fact you need to pay taxes guess what you are under an implied contract if you are a citizen of the United States what this means is you are granted rights and privileges under the law but you also have responsibilities to that society these include and are not limited to. Registering for the draft at the age of 18 paying your taxes in a timely fashion serving on a jury paying all fines and fees that have been leveed against you. If you don't agree with this find a country that doesn't have a constitution and move there. You will find in most cases they still have taxes and fines and fees what you won't find are the rights and privileges that are protected under the Constitution in this country.


Yes, but there has to be something to back the currency, else the currency is useless. It doesn't matter how much of it there is, or whether it's being distributed to banks, because you can't actually do anything with it. I equated this to a Ponzi scheme because it it similar in that the dollar is only worth as much as the next person is willing to give you for it (similar to stocks in a Ponzi scheme).

By the way, the dollar is still technically backed by gold. The government just doesn't exchange it anymore.
Edit: ↑Disregard that↑

I myself am an anarchist, but I still pay taxes. I haven't a clue what brought you to that conclusion. But since we're on the topic, I'm pretty sure I'd still have rights if there were no government. The government isn't God, it didn't bestow upon me divinity, and I won't lose that nonexistent divinity if I move to another country. But that's just my personal opinion, don't take it as an offense directed at you specifically.
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Posted 7/9/15 , edited 7/9/15

biscuitnote wrote:


Firedestroyer wrote:


biscuitnote wrote:

Bitcoin isn't backed by anything other than pure speculation there is no real value behind it. The US dollar is backed by the largest economy in the world. I think cashless systems will eventually be the norm as will living and working part time in virtual spaces. Barring some severe catastrophe I see our world becoming more digital not less.


You people always forget why money is valuble. You can trade the dollar for gold.

Or, you could, a few years ago. Now the government is refusing to exchange for gold, so the entire thing is just a Ponzi scheme on a huge scale.


Whats gold backed by? Its a shiny rock that has a few ornamental or industrial applications. The US dollar is backed by trillions in economic activity.

Pretty sure there are numerous uses for gold in electronics, space exploration, etc.

'Tis why I equated it to a Ponzi scheme. USD is only as valuble as what the next person is willing to pay for it.
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Posted 7/9/15

Firedestroyer wrote:


biscuitnote wrote:


Firedestroyer wrote:


biscuitnote wrote:

Bitcoin isn't backed by anything other than pure speculation there is no real value behind it. The US dollar is backed by the largest economy in the world. I think cashless systems will eventually be the norm as will living and working part time in virtual spaces. Barring some severe catastrophe I see our world becoming more digital not less.


You people always forget why money is valuble. You can trade the dollar for gold.

Or, you could, a few years ago. Now the government is refusing to exchange for gold, so the entire thing is just a Ponzi scheme on a huge scale.


Whats gold backed by? Its a shiny rock that has a few ornamental or industrial applications. The US dollar is backed by trillions in economic activity.

Pretty sure there are numerous uses for gold in electronics, space exploration, etc.

'Tis why I equated it to a Ponzi scheme. USD is only as valuble as what the next person is willing to pay for it.


I said gold has industrial applications no argument there of course it makes no sense for a shiny rock to be the currency. Our society is far more complicated than it was in the in1800s lugging gold coins around to buy stuff isn't efficient at all. I would also like to point out that gold is only as valuable as what people are wiling to pay for it not to mention its price could be easily manipulated by big commodity traders. The US dollar on the other hand is far more equitable to the common person not to mention the dollar represents the economy of the US and our economy is enormous. I would rather bet on dollars than gold any day of the week.
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Posted 7/9/15 , edited 7/9/15

biscuitnote wrote:



I said gold has industrial applications no argument there of course it makes no sense for a shiny rock to be the currency. Our society is far more complicated than it was in the in1800s lugging gold coins around to buy stuff isn't efficient at all. I would also like to point out that gold is only as valuable as what people are wiling to pay for it not to mention its price could be easily manipulated by big commodity traders. The US dollar on the other hand is far more equitable to the common person not to mention the dollar represents the economy of the US and our economy is enormous. I would rather bet on dollars than gold any day of the week.


Sure. I can't find any flaws in your argument, except that value isn't equal to price.

But I can say that the dollar is still technically backed by gold. The government just won't exchange said gold. Suppose I should've clarified that.

I can also say that, while in the view of macroeconomics the US economy is thriving, looking at the microeconomics within that suggests anything but.

Edit: Transcripts I read were incorrect, disregard the stuff about gold.
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Posted 7/9/15

Firedestroyer wrote:


gvblackmoon wrote:



For starters you can't trade money for gold at a bank as it was under the gold standard as for it being a Pozi scheme it doesn't even meet the requirements to be one there are requirements for this I will post them at the further on. To create money bonds are issued these treasury notes or bonds are then bought back at a later time after having incurred interest these are not IOUs, an IOU is a promissory note that is loan from either a bank or an individual. The money used to purchase bonds is not a loan but an investment in that government.

To use a gold standard introduces risks into the market that have when we have used one make things far worse when you have a crash. Study the first five great depressions all happened while under a gold standard the last one had part of the tools in place and resulted in the tools begin created to stop it from happening again. The 2008 recession could have been far worse, if we had been on a gold standard it would have been a depression as it is we are still digging our way out of it because folks fail to understand one basic tactic used to do so is to invest into the country and put people back to work.


What a Pozi scheme is. If you create a company that takes investments and then you pay back investors with monies brought in from new investors this is a Pozi scheme. This is not what happens with bonds the money collected from taxes goes to paying this back not the money from those investing in new bonds. Now a true Pozi scheme has the person running it vanishing or trying to run away withe the last investment money so that they don't get caught, this is not what happens with bonds they get paid out on time and with the correct interest.

Now if what you are truly complaining about is the fact you need to pay taxes guess what you are under an implied contract if you are a citizen of the United States what this means is you are granted rights and privileges under the law but you also have responsibilities to that society these include and are not limited to. Registering for the draft at the age of 18 paying your taxes in a timely fashion serving on a jury paying all fines and fees that have been leveed against you. If you don't agree with this find a country that doesn't have a constitution and move there. You will find in most cases they still have taxes and fines and fees what you won't find are the rights and privileges that are protected under the Constitution in this country.


Yes, but there has to be something to back the currency, else the currency is useless. It doesn't matter how much of it there is, or whether it's being distributed to banks, because you can't actually do anything with it. I equated this to a Ponzi scheme because it it similar in that the dollar is only worth as much as the next person is willing to give you for it (similar to stocks in a Ponzi scheme).

By the way, the dollar is still technically backed by gold. The government just doesn't exchange it anymore.

I myself am an anarchist, but I still pay taxes. I haven't a clue what brought you to that conclusion. But since we're on the topic, I'm pretty sure I'd still have rights if there were no government. The government isn't God, it didn't bestow upon me divinity, and I won't lose that nonexistent divinity if I move to another country. But that's just my personal opinion, don't take it as an offense directed at you specifically.


No the US dollar is not backed by gold if it was we only have enough gold to back 4.46% of the money currently in circulation right now so that claim doesn't fly here is what the Federal reserver IE the guy that make money state on the subject. http://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/currency_12770.htm For a currency to be backed by something you have to be able to redeem it for the material so yeah by the classic definition of the term backed by it isn't. So US currency is not backed by anything other then the faith and credit of the United States.

This of course now makes prefect sense with you being an anarchist I would like you to actually watch Durarara because it is a wonderful case study as to why anarchy doesn't work especially the second season when the person that created the Dollars discovered he has no way to stop members from committing crimes in their name. His solution to the problem is the same solution a well known SCI FI Mystery writer had to use because he figured out it just doesn't work ever which is an outside group designed to enforce laws upon the society. The writer is F. Paul Wilson and the series is the LaNague Federation again shows why anarchy doesn't work since it fails to deal with the extreme member of the society that will do anything they like.

You are correct government isn't god and should not be treated as such it is a system of governing society so that as many people benefit from that society as possible if done correctly. Anarchy is a lack of society and is best represented by the failed state such as Syria currently since most of it does not have a form of government there are several other failed state around the word where these is also true and if you examine them you will find they are not places you would wish to live.
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Posted 7/9/15 , edited 7/9/15

Firedestroyer wrote:
But I can say that the dollar is still technically backed by gold. The government just won't exchange said gold. Suppose I should've clarified that.


The U.S. dollar has not been backed by gold since 1971.

Americans have not been able to exchange currency for gold since 1933, and for nearly 40 years it was illegal to own gold bullion.

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Posted 7/9/15
yes it will!!! especially when apple launches the ability to send money to each other using apple pay!!
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Posted 7/9/15


I would also like to point out that hoarding gold does not create value. Value comes from productive business enterprises and that is why the US is so rich and prosperous for the most part. The best way to finance new business enterprises is not gold bricks but US dollars. Heck overseas investors buy US treasury bills by the bundle for the stability.
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Posted 7/9/15

Dariamus wrote:


Firedestroyer wrote:
But I can say that the dollar is still technically backed by gold. The government just won't exchange said gold. Suppose I should've clarified that.


The U.S. dollar has not been backed by gold since 1971.

Americans have not been able to exchange currency for gold since 1933, and for nearly 40 years it was illegal to own gold bullion.



Huh. Transcripts I've read had him saying it was only temporary. Sorry about that!
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Posted 7/9/15

biscuitnote wrote:



I would also like to point out that hoarding gold does not create value. Value comes from productive business enterprises and that is why the US is so rich and prosperous for the most part. The best way to finance new business enterprises is not gold bricks but US dollars. Heck overseas investors buy US treasury bills by the bundle for the stability.


Prime example of that is China
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Posted 7/9/15

gvblackmoon wrote:



No the US dollar is not backed by gold if it was we only have enough gold to back 4.46% of the money currently in circulation right now so that claim doesn't fly here is what the Federal reserver IE the guy that make money state on the subject. http://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/currency_12770.htm For a currency to be backed by something you have to be able to redeem it for the material so yeah by the classic definition of the term backed by it isn't. So US currency is not backed by anything other then the faith and credit of the United States.

This of course now makes prefect sense with you being an anarchist I would like you to actually watch Durarara because it is a wonderful case study as to why anarchy doesn't work especially the second season when the person that created the Dollars discovered he has no way to stop members from committing crimes in their name. His solution to the problem is the same solution a well known SCI FI Mystery writer had to use because he figured out it just doesn't work ever which is an outside group designed to enforce laws upon the society. The writer is F. Paul Wilson and the series is the LaNague Federation again shows why anarchy doesn't work since it fails to deal with the extreme member of the society that will do anything they like.

You are correct government isn't god and should not be treated as such it is a system of governing society so that as many people benefit from that society as possible if done correctly. Anarchy is a lack of society and is best represented by the failed state such as Syria currently since most of it does not have a form of government there are several other failed state around the word where these is also true and if you examine them you will find they are not places you would wish to live.


Yea, sorry about that. Historical transcripts I've read were flawed, apparently. Said something about the change being temporary, which apparently isn't true.

I have zero faith in the United States, and give it no credit (look at all the debt it's accrued), so I see how this conversation came about.

I'd counter you with the fact that you referenced fiction to prove your point, but that's stupid. Instead I'll say that the anarchy I support is extremely utopian, and so I don't see it ever really happening. As a substitute, I'd wish for a government that oversees rather than controls (which is impossilbe, because control is in the definiton of government).

What were we arguing about, again? I think it was something about the value of money, in which case we should be able to agree that value depends on the one who values, and is therefore completely subjective. So, in other words, while money may be worthless to me, it's not worthless to you (extending upon the faith/credit = value thing).
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Posted 7/9/15

dotsforlife wrote:

Prime example of that is China


An interesting fact considering China is also where gold and silver tended to flow and stop when nations' stores of precious metals determined their relative economic strength. Oh China, you incorrigible character you.
Posted 7/9/15 , edited 7/9/15
only when hookers take credit cards
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Posted 7/9/15
I do not think so. But wish it would
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Posted 7/9/15
Wake up people, cashless society gives waaaaay to much power to the banks... there was a phone recording from some super elite guy wanting cashless society because it would give them the power to "turn" someone off so they couldn't buy anything.

DO YOUR RESEARCH!
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