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Post Reply Do you think cash will become obsolete in the future?
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Posted 7/9/15


The reason I used fiction is because it shows the short coming of the system that your espouse and does so nicely without actually beating the subject to death. I will point that I also used real world examples of what an anarchist system would look like as well since folks fail to understand that a failed state is an anarchist state. Anarchy as a system of government isn't one since government is designed to regulate the society that creates it.

It would be wonderful for a government to oversee wait it already does that to keep social outliers in-line requires it to also exerciser control. The level of that control can be limited and is limited by the laws the population allows the government to create, this is why we have a Constitution so we can limit our government but also give it the power to regulate the society. For a citizen to abdicate their responsibility to their society is both foolish and short sighted this is why the right has over the last fifty years pushed the idea of elections not being important and restricting voting rights. The more people you have involved the better it is for the society as a whole since you have a great number of p[people giving there feedback both positive and negative to the system.

As for the value of money it is worth the time and energy I put into earning it so it is valuable to me based on that simple fact. Money for me is literally time in physical form. while it is backed by the faith and credit of the country I am part of it is also the time I take to earn it.

As for wither or not it will be around in it's current form I don't see it vanishing anytime soon by someday it will be replaced.
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Posted 7/9/15
Currency itself may go away but the idea of something used in exchange for goods and services probably will not. People like to own things and we only get the things we want by exchanging something else (money, labor, or something of greater or equal value than what we want).

In order for that system to disappear everyone on the planet would have to become a self-sufficient entity.
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Posted 7/9/15
Electronic currency will replace cash if the banks and government have their way. The banks LOVE taking a cut out of every transaction.
Posted 7/9/15 , edited 7/9/15

Wrathfulram wrote:

Wake up people, cashless society gives waaaaay to much power to the banks... there was a phone recording from some super elite guy wanting cashless society because it would give them the power to "turn" someone off so they couldn't buy anything.

DO YOUR RESEARCH!


Jut buy a lot of luxury goods.
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Posted 7/9/15
i use cash regularly and i have side jobs that pay just cash (better than my actual job!) so yeah i'm not the only one who lives off that extra money so it ain't going anywhere anytime soon
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Posted 7/9/15
Some folks believe that AI and robotics complexity will grow exponentially over the next 50 years or so (much like standard computing has), and work as we know it will be nearly unnecessary at that point. If so, how then would we earn money? Why then would we even need money? Are we ready as a species, after tens of thousands of years, to give up the idea of currency, and let the future we were promised happen?

Sadly, I think the above is an unlikely scenario, greed will win as it always has.
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Posted 7/10/15

gvblackmoon wrote:



The reason I used fiction is because it shows the short coming of the system that your espouse and does so nicely without actually beating the subject to death. I will point that I also used real world examples of what an anarchist system would look like as well since folks fail to understand that a failed state is an anarchist state. Anarchy as a system of government isn't one since government is designed to regulate the society that creates it.

It would be wonderful for a government to oversee wait it already does that to keep social outliers in-line requires it to also exerciser control. The level of that control can be limited and is limited by the laws the population allows the government to create, this is why we have a Constitution so we can limit our government but also give it the power to regulate the society. For a citizen to abdicate their responsibility to their society is both foolish and short sighted this is why the right has over the last fifty years pushed the idea of elections not being important and restricting voting rights. The more people you have involved the better it is for the society as a whole since you have a great number of p[people giving there feedback both positive and negative to the system.

As for the value of money it is worth the time and energy I put into earning it so it is valuable to me based on that simple fact. Money for me is literally time in physical form. while it is backed by the faith and credit of the country I am part of it is also the time I take to earn it.

As for wither or not it will be around in it's current form I don't see it vanishing anytime soon by someday it will be replaced.


Well, of course. I acknoweldge the fact that fiction can be used as a model, as I stated before.

The more people you have the less efficient society becomes. Since the best candidates for positions of power are less evident, and the herd mentality means the most attractive option, and not always the best option, is usually chosen. Not to mention corruption, crime, overlap of beliefs, economic divide, etc.

This is seen in the presidental elections, where it is extremely rare for anyone outside of two parties to win an election, and it is nigh impossible to become the president without extensive funding to advertize one's self. One's vote will only matter if however many millions of people vote for the same person.

I'd say something about how the time you spend getting something is not equal to its value and that you're naive, but that's also stupid, and I realize that you are an intelligent person (however misguided from my own beliefs).
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Posted 7/10/15


To address your first issue this is why you require a highly educated population that understands their role in society, this has been done in the recent past and worried those that wanted power so much that they have been fighting against it and destroying the systems that allows for it. So a big part of your society is education when you have a well inform highly educated population that understands they have a role in their government they do great at picking leaders not all the time but better then when they aren't. Take a look at Sweden and Norway and Finland all three have well educated population that understand their roles in their society. They aren't prefect but they understand some basic important principles that everyone should adhere to.

Voted disenfranchisement is another part of the problem folks keep saying your vote doesn't matter it does it is your voice in what type of government you have, if you give it up willingly or have it taken from you you loose that power. As for money in politics we can change that and there is a movement right now working to do so, but it requires people to do so willing to fight back against that money see money can't buy a system that people are willing to defend and make stronger so it becomes impossible to buy. We have the means by which to change the system it exist in the way it was setup and we should be using this method to correct the errors that are happening currently. I know it will take time and energy but we can improve on it.

As for how money works you really do require a medium for trade that is better then chickens and cows, batter is wonderful if you only have a couple hundred people but once you get into the thousands, millions and billions you need something that everyone can accept. Gold isn't effective it has it's own problems which lead to greater issues when you have problems the five great depression showed that yes there were five of them and a lot of minor ones. Rescissions like the recent one are more easily handled if those in power understand some basic tactics to dealing with them. Get people back to work at a good wage raise taxes at the top they can take the hair cut spend money economies don't work unless someone is spending money once the government primes the pump if folks have money in their pockets it tends to correct itself.

The system isn't so badly broken it can't be fixed it is and has been a imperfect system but one that can always be refined and should be.

I will leave you with this quote since it gets to the point best.

"Man, as a social animal, can no more escape government than the individual can escape bondage to his bowels."
Robert Heinlein

This one also fits but also understand you can change the obnoxious laws and you pay a penalty for breaking them.

“I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do.”
― Robert A. Heinlein
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Posted 7/10/15
If a world war three comes then yes for sure.
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Posted 7/11/15
Yeah, we're gonna be dealing in minerals and vespene g-...nevermind.
Posted 7/11/15 , edited 7/11/15
Sometimes I'm surprised it isn't obsolete already (if we're talking coins/notes vs digital transactions)
Posted 7/11/15
You will become obsolete in the future. -sigh- Anything that makes us lazier is welcome.
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Posted 7/11/15


I feel like the current education systems don't work all that well. Telling somebody to learn this before then or else they're a failure to society, as a great many schools do, doesn't seem like a good way to teach people their role in society, or any good principles to adhere to. Because regardless of what people think, they learn based on what they see, not what they're told.

I also feel like people who run governments escape governments quite effectively... But I'm probably biased (because everyone's biased in some way).

I'd continue arguing the things you're saying, but I feel like we're both arguing for a perfect system. Neither works exactly as intended, because neither can become as perfect as it theoretically should be.

Our second mistake is that we're focusing on creating arguments and counter-arguments against the other, and because of this our argument has no foreseeable resolution. Additionally, we're blinded from anywhere in which the other might be right, instead focusing on where the other is wrong.

Third, we're getting nowhere with our arguments because we don't know what we're arguing. Officially, it's supposed to be about the validity of money, but that has obviously become a smaller argument within something bigger.

And lastly, no matter what conclusion we come to, if we ever come to a conclusion, it won't really affect anything. There is no purpose to our argument other than changing what the other thinks, which doesn't look like it's happening anytime soon. So I feel like we should end this here.

Oh, but before I go, I'll leave you with this quote:
"Quotes are made relevant not by their contents, but by of whoever is saying them." -Aristotle
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Posted 7/12/15



Firedestroyer wrote:



I feel like the current education systems don't work all that well. Telling somebody to learn this before then or else they're a failure to society, as a great many schools do, doesn't seem like a good way to teach people their role in society, or any good principles to adhere to. Because regardless of what people think, they learn based on what they see, not what they're told.

I also feel like people who run governments escape governments quite effectively... But I'm probably biased (because everyone's biased in some way).

I'd continue arguing the things you're saying, but I feel like we're both arguing for a perfect system. Neither works exactly as intended, because neither can become as perfect as it theoretically should be.

Our second mistake is that we're focusing on creating arguments and counter-arguments against the other, and because of this our argument has no foreseeable resolution. Additionally, we're blinded from anywhere in which the other might be right, instead focusing on where the other is wrong.

Third, we're getting nowhere with our arguments because we don't know what we're arguing. Officially, it's supposed to be about the validity of money, but that has obviously become a smaller argument within something bigger.

And lastly, no matter what conclusion we come to, if we ever come to a conclusion, it won't really affect anything. There is no purpose to our argument other than changing what the other thinks, which doesn't look like it's happening anytime soon. So I feel like we should end this here.

Oh, but before I go, I'll leave you with this quote:
"Quotes are made relevant not by their contents, but by of whoever is saying them." -Aristotle



The current education system has been gutted by forty years of people trying to make it not work as anything more then turning out mindless drones that can push a button. We need to get back to what we had before the Regan years which means paying for it. I am not aiming for prefect I'm aiming for better then what we have right now which is what everyone should be aiming for. People should be educated as to their role in their society since they are part of it I was but not by the system by my father who was educated by the system as an attorney. Understanding of law is important and understanding of ones role in society is more important.

Apathy towards government has been fostered by those that don't want you to see them pulling the strings. By taking an active and proactive role in your society and engaging the system rather then trying to tear it down as failed you make it harder for those that want to control to do so. This isn't wishful thinking but simple facts that have been shown time and time again in our society. When people work together for the common good the system works for the better this is how we got the forty hour work week and we achieved womens rights to vote and the end of slavery. It is how the system was created by engaging the people and making a system for them to govern themselves.

I will make no illusion of it being prefect it isn't nor will it ever be and it will have times of darkness as any society will. But if we as citizens stay vigilant and work together to keep it in balance it will work.

As for you quote I was not able to find a citation of it anywhere but to put the man behind mine into context. Heinlein was a navel cadet until TB ended his military career he designed plans for a version of the water-bed while recovering. He ran unsuccessfully for office as a socialist with Upton Sinclare. He server the US government as a mathematician and physicist during WW2, and he wrote a lot of books mostly social cometary in the guise of SCI FI, his books Moon is a Harsh Mistress followed by the Libertarians as a ideal view of their beliefs and Stranger in a Strange Land follow by the old hippies as an example of theirs. The first being a redo of the American war for independence the second being well lets face it about a guy from mars that is a messiah. Both good reads but some of the things in both are taken out of context by those that read them. In the end I think he died a bit sad the world didn't turn out as he saw it turning out. Honestly i would like my flying car thanks. He gave us power armor and several other ideas that SCI FI still uses today so yeah long lasting impact of SCI FI.

As for context the quotes of his I use are direct and meant to be used as quotes not things cribbed from what the author is saying but meant to be use as they are. The aren't chopped out of a passage from the book but normal found at the start of his chapter a habit he developed early he has tons of quotes on things that are relevant to the books in them and to the society he is commenting on. It is still relevant to this day since society hasn't changed that much since his death. Which is really sad actually since we should have moved forward sigh conservatives and they endless ability to hold us back. Time and life move forward you can't stop if may as well make things better.


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Posted 7/12/15
Some argue for Digital money, other bitcoin, i still belive in man co keys
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