First  Prev  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  10  11  12  13  14  15  16  17  Next  Last
Is anime really that sexist?
15084 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
25 / M
Offline
Posted 7/4/15

anzn wrote:
It has barely anything to do with the anime they're watching because like I said before, the anime yhat do are minuscule compared to the other thousands.
And a lot of mainstream anime seem to have it as well so


Going through the entire list of anime I have seen, I can't find one example of a show that treats women in general as if they cannot do anything without men and I'd say that the majority of shows feature women who show great amounts of strength, either physical or mental, throughout all genres. I already listed a bunch of shows which have strong female characters, but they are far from the only ones and they are far from a minority.

This "sexism" (again, I have problems with applying that word to fiction) is not an epidemic or something representative of all anime unless you do a lot of stretching.
16154 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
20 / M
Offline
Posted 7/4/15 , edited 7/4/15

anzn wrote:


Hollownerox wrote:

Honestly anime isn't actually sexist in my opinion. Is it sexual? Yes, it is to an almost ludicrous extent in some series. But is that necessarily a bad thing? Not really. Is it sexist? No.

The problem is that radical feminists in the United States tend to consider anything remotely sexual to be sexist. I could go into it more, but to keep this concise I'll just say there are a lot of things wrong with that point of view in my opinion.

I suppose the main argument to make is whether or not anime objectify women/men or not. In other words, are the "fanservice" scenes, as we like to call them, something that is meant to tantalize the viewer making the character an object? In my opinion, no it does not objectify the character, and to think it does is very demeaning, not just to the character, but us as viewers. Just because it is done in a sexual manner does not mean that we automatically ignore every other human part of that character, one fanservice scene does not throw away all the other aspects of that character in favor of them being a sex object to us.

Its more than that. Sexism is more than just seeing women as nothing more than a sexual object. Which guys like you don't seem to get.
Sexism is telling us men will always be more stronger than women, that women can't do anything without men, that a mans opinion on a women defines her worth, that women couldnt have possibly do/be like how they are without the help of a man, that women are powerless, that women always need to be saved (by a man), that women can't fight, etc etc.
Anything that indicates we are inferior to men in almost every way is sexist.

potentsativa wrote:

I think a better question is why does it even matter.

Because it only encourages gender stereotypes & it has an actual affect on people.


I'd rather you not insult my intelligence by claiming that sexism is something that "a guy like me doesn't seem to get", first things first that assumption you made there could be considered sexist in of itself; but unlike you I'm not going to resort to ad hominems to prove my case. Secondly I was commenting on a very specific aspect of anime which were the "fanservice" scenes, which the argument to be made in that case was the objectifying of people. The fact that I centered my initial post on that aspect of sexism doesn't mean that I am ignorant to every other part of it, that's just you making an assumption about what I know and what I don't know; which I don't exactly appreciate.

And no, what you listed isn't sexism in it's entirety. Is it a crucial part of it? Yes, but saying that your definition of sexism is better than mine is pretty, and I'll be frank here, rude. Sexism is a very complicated beast, and condensing it to "making women look inferior to men" is doing a disservice to feminism as a whole in my honest opinion. Feminism and the erasing of sexism isn't solely about the portrayal of women being inferior to men, it's about getting rid of those harmful (keyword there) stereotypes of BOTH men and women in order to create a more equal society beneficial to everyone. Things like the patriarchy, gender stereotypes, and double standards are harmful to everybody, not just women, so that is something that needs to be clarified.

With that said, I might as well properly rebut your statements even if you didn't give me the same courtesy. Does anime portray women as inferior to men? Not necessarily, while most anime do in fact have men in the more active role while women in the more passive you have to realize that it's not a case of the anime being sexist but rather that they have a specific audience in mind. Guys tend to like watching guy heroes in the main lead, there's nothing inherently wrong with that, it's simple demographics and a symptom of the fluid market. It's not even something that enforces those gender stereotypes much. While I could mention things like periphery demographics, once again I'd rather keep this concise since this is a general topic.

There are plenty of anime that either show women in a strong role, or in certain cases even in a superior role. Any times they are seemingly "inferior to men" (and for the life of me I can't think of any specific examples at the moment), it is likely for story telling reasons in order to introduce development for their character. It is important to note while some scenes may portray a women as inferior in certain circumstances (once again, context is important), those scenes are part of a larger whole and they don't actually advocate for sexist attitudes.

As for it having an actual effect on people, do you happen to have any sources for that? Because what you're claiming is that the portrayal of sexist behaviors in anime will have an effect on the viewers themselves, in other words a variation of the "Mean World" phenomenon. Which simply doesn't have any basis in scientific fact, much like violence in videogames, sexism in media doesn't cause the viewers to pick up sexist behavior. Unless your argument is something else entirely, then ignore what I'm saying here.
16251 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
M
Offline
Posted 7/4/15

megahobbit wrote:
Expanding the target audience of anime is nothing but a good thing in my opinion.


Tell that to the Japanese. Because their target audience are Otaku (Think Weeaboo, if you're from the USA) who spend $50USD+ for a BD for one or two episodes on them and hundreds of dollars on figurines, etc to 'support the show'. Audiences outside Japan are literally considered 2nd rate if they are considered at all.

megahobbit wrote:But sexist at least how it applies to this situation(words are fluid) is something that reinforces outdated and harmful cultural notions about about women.
That isn't what sexism means.

megahobbit wrote:This relates to the bigger definition of sexism a system that oppresses a gender(that gender is women in case your wondering).
That would refer to "Systemic sexism" which is a separate topic from sexism itself.

megahobbit wrote:Sexism like Racism and Classism is a system that oppresses an oppressed demographic of people. IE a women cant be sexist cause there isnt a system of oppression backing it(they can be prejudiced which is still bad, but there still aint a system of oppression keeping the man down), same thing with racism (a minority cant really be racist cause there isnt a system of oppression backing it)
No. That has nothing to do with the concept of sexism at all.
9541 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
19 / M
Offline
Posted 7/4/15

DasWood wrote:


megahobbit wrote:
Expanding the target audience of anime is nothing but a good thing in my opinion.


Tell that to the Japanese. Because their target audience are Otaku (Think Weeaboo, if you're from the USA) who spend $50USD+ for a BD for one or two episodes on them and hundreds of dollars on figurines, etc to 'support the show'. Audiences outside Japan are literally considered 2nd rate if they are considered at all.

megahobbit wrote:But sexist at least how it applies to this situation(words are fluid) is something that reinforces outdated and harmful cultural notions about about women.
That isn't what sexism means.

megahobbit wrote:This relates to the bigger definition of sexism a system that oppresses a gender(that gender is women in case your wondering).
That would refer to "Systemic sexism" which is a separate topic from sexism itself.

megahobbit wrote:Sexism like Racism and Classism is a system that oppresses an oppressed demographic of people. IE a women cant be sexist cause there isnt a system of oppression backing it(they can be prejudiced which is still bad, but there still aint a system of oppression keeping the man down), same thing with racism (a minority cant really be racist cause there isnt a system of oppression backing it)
No. That has nothing to do with the concept of sexism at all.


1. That market cannot and will not last and needs to expand. Feminism/Sexism aside I think they need to shed off there dependance on Otaku merchandising. Its a market that isnt really stable.

2. From the perspective of viewing media that is what factors into me considering a work sexist.

3. Said I aint gonna argue that.

4. Said I aint gonna argue that.

5. Said I aint gonna argue that.

16251 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
M
Offline
Posted 7/4/15

megahobbit

1. That market cannot and will not last and needs to expand. Feminism/Sexism aside I think they need to shed off there dependance on Otaku merchandising. Its a market that isnt really stable.

2. From the perspective of viewing media that is what factors into me considering a work sexist.

3. Said I aint gonna argue that.

4. Said I aint gonna argue that.

5. Said I aint gonna argue that.



1. is an opinion. Otaku is not suddenly going to cease to exist, unless you have evidence otherwise.

2. So what you are talking about is your opinion of what sexism means and not what sexism is agreed to mean by everyone else. OK then.

3. - 5. Don't care. You should not listen to anyone's opinion on the subject who doesn't call the concept of 'systemic -isms' systemic. It is a red flag of general incompetence and ignorance of a basic building block concept of a subject they claim to have knowledge.
9541 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
19 / M
Offline
Posted 7/4/15

DasWood wrote:


megahobbit

1. That market cannot and will not last and needs to expand. Feminism/Sexism aside I think they need to shed off there dependance on Otaku merchandising. Its a market that isnt really stable.

2. From the perspective of viewing media that is what factors into me considering a work sexist.

3. Said I aint gonna argue that.

4. Said I aint gonna argue that.

5. Said I aint gonna argue that.



1. is an opinion. Otaku is not suddenly going to cease to exist, unless you have evidence otherwise.

2. So what you are talking about is your opinion of what sexism means and not what sexism is agreed to mean by everyone else. OK then.

3. - 5. Don't care. You should not listen to anyone's opinion on the subject who doesn't call the concept of 'systemic -isms' systemic. It is a red flag of general incompetence and ignorance of a basic building block concept of a subject they claim to have knowledge.


1. Any market that functions off milking on demographic by charging them high cost for products is one market failure away from turning to dust.

2. Yeah pretty much

3-5. Ive heard your arguments before. I once held your viewpoint. I dont care to repeat them. People come at me like I wasnt the total "FUCK FEMINISM" guy a couple years ago.
16251 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
M
Offline
Posted 7/4/15
1. is still your opinion without any facts to back it up.

3. What? What does explaining the importance of competence of people you rely on as experts and importance of definitions have anything to do with 'fuck feminism'? An actual expert on a subject won't say things that are easily refuted by typing "define:applicable word here".
15084 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
25 / M
Offline
Posted 7/4/15 , edited 7/4/15

megahobbit wrote:
1. Uhh yes it is having a prevalance of these shows without a balance reinforces one view of women onto the cultural mindset. If the only way women are portrayed is as 10/10 hot gawking material to be objectified it is sexist. If we had a wide range of female characters an the majority wasnt 10/10 hot gawking material it wouldnt be sexist. Not that 10/10 hot gawking material is bad but when thats all you have its just stupid.

Expanding the target audience of anime is nothing but a good thing in my opinion.

2. There are other ways to show that character trait besides feeling up young children. But I was also referring to the moment were the one boring girl gets the snake in her mouth thing.

This is gonna sound cringeworthy but Vash and his worldview did have a profound affect on my life. Vash is supposed to be a noble hero. Vash does the right thing and even in his goofiest moments shows respect for people. You can show he is a pervert in other ways besides molesting women. The first nine episodes already did that.

But to your definition of sexism. See thats hard to say cause nothing is really objectively sexist in media. Its all up to argument and interpretation. Feminist critique of a work is separate to me from enjoyment for me. There really is not a checklist merit system were something is objectively sexist or not. Thats kinda how analysis works. I view what the anime shows me and I see it through a lense of my personal worldview.

But sexist at least how it applies to this situation(words are fluid) is something that reinforces outdated and harmful cultural notions about about women. This relates to the bigger definition of sexism a system that oppresses a gender(that gender is women in case your wondering). Sexism like Racism and Classism is a system that oppresses an oppressed demographic of people. IE a women cant be sexist cause there isnt a system of oppression backing it(they can be prejudiced which is still bad, but there still aint a system of oppression keeping the man down), same thing with racism (a minority cant really be racist cause there isnt a system of oppression backing it)

It should be noted that im not gonna be debating the last two paragraphs with anyone. Im probably not gonna change your mind your probably not gonna change mine.


1. Uhhhhhh...no its not. If sales numbers and demographics show that a larger number of men enjoy fanservice, why should production companies pump out failure after failure just to satisfy some sort of quota?

As for saying "the only way women are portrayed is as attractive is sexist", again, I disagree. Anime as a whole features extremely idealized characters for both men and women (however there are a large rainbow a character types for both genders). The only time that this can be seen as a problem (not sexist necessarily, but bad writing) is if the characters do nothing but be attractive which I've stated multiple times is not usually the case. In my experience, it is usually the male lead who is the cardboard cutout while the female leads get the character development backstory and personality in shows such as romance anime, where this "pretty face 'problem'" seems to be the most noticable.

While expanding the target audience would likely be a good thing for viewers (for production companies it could go either way), that does not make anything in this situation sexist.

2. "There are other ways...". There are always other ways. In writing, you could avoid all the sensitive subjects and make something clean and PC, but thats not how art works. You could always write something differently, and often, if given a pen on a different day, something different might happen. However, if you as the artist choose to do something, you should be encouraged to do it even if it may be seen as sensitive. The "There are other ways" argument does not in any way prove sexism, it just dislodges the conversation towards censorship and other nonsense which does not prove the initial point.

The female characters in Monogatari are in general very well developed and often in a way that both consciously accepts and subverts the character tropes that they "fall in to". For example, Senjougahara is a damsel in distress and she accepts that role and plays the part when it suits her, however, she often shows that she will subvert that role and act as the dominant one in the relationship or play different parts based on who she is. That is largely what Monogatari is about.

You have a problem with Araragi's treatment of Hachikuji? Well, thats on you. Might it be uncomfortable for some people? Sure, and that is fine. However, that does not make it sexist, and I believe that the character of Hachikuji is actually fairly interesting, from her first story to the relationship she develops with Arararagi to the other arcs she is involved in. She is not reduced to nothing but a sex object and she often provides Ararararagi with advice or guidance or support. She shows plenty of agency in their relationship.

Definition of sexism:

"But to your definition of sexism. See thats hard to say cause nothing is really objectively sexist in media"

And everything flies out the window. How can we even have a rational discussion about something that is on such flimsy ground? That is why I don't like classifying fiction as sexism. Because the word sexism means different things to everybody and thus becomes useless. What good is a word without meaning, and what good is throwing it around arbitrarily other than to act sensationalistically?

"something that reinforces outdated and harmful cultural notions about about women"

Well, that isn't really a problem (or sexist). I stated before that "no character type is off limits". If a human chooses to be a stereotypical female, than who am I to say "no, you cant do that!"? Similarly, a character cannot be deprived of their ability to be normal and portraying a character who is stereotypical is not sexist nor a problem.

That would be like calling a gangster movie racist if it featured black people. Does it reinforce a stereotype? Sure, but no character type is off limits. People in the real world follow that path, so we should not set up bars on art saying "you cannot depict this because it is 'harmful'."

However, as I stated in my discussions with anzn, I do not believe that anime at large depicts women in general in a negative way. There are obviously specific examples of women (and men and children) being weak or being saved, but there is a whole slew of shows which feature strong female characters, often outshining the men characters (or in a show lacking male characters altogether). Strong female characters and fleshed out female characters are anything but rare in anime.

"bigger definition of sexism a system that oppresses a gender":

While I cannot speak to Japanese culture, I think I can say that anime isn't oppressing people. You are really going to have to do some heavy lifting to verify that statement.

"a women cant be sexist cause there isnt a system of oppression backing it":

Okay, this statement makes me angry for so many reasons. First of all, females have a huge list of privileges in western culture, often throughout systems such as the legal system and the education system. There is no system of oppression and women are not oppressed in western culture and to suggest such is an insult to those who are actually oppressed.

Second of all, if a woman can say in all seriousness that men should be killed off to lower the percentage to around 10% without being considered sexist, than I call bullshit. Also, these sociological definitions are nonsense, completely changing the definition of the word sexism to something that fits the feminist agenda.

You say there isn't a "system of oppression keeping men down" and yet the percentage of men in Universities is declining (and yet affirmative action continues to push for more women in college! A 60/40 split isn't enough!), the early education system is largely centered towards females, domestic violence against men is largely ignored or laughed at, rape of men is largely downplayed or even suggested to not exist (with feminist groups campaigning to prevent the definition of rape from being changed to included forced envelopment), men are given far harsher criminal penalties for the same crimes, women are favored in family courts, etc. and yet women are oppressed because of...sexy anime characters.

And then I read that you aren't going to reply to any of this. Oh well, I've said my piece... I hope I at least in a small part demonstrated that your buzzwords aren't as accurate to reality as you may think.
Posted 7/4/15

Hollownerox wrote:


anzn wrote:


Hollownerox wrote:

Honestly anime isn't actually sexist in my opinion. Is it sexual? Yes, it is to an almost ludicrous extent in some series. But is that necessarily a bad thing? Not really. Is it sexist? No.

The problem is that radical feminists in the United States tend to consider anything remotely sexual to be sexist. I could go into it more, but to keep this concise I'll just say there are a lot of things wrong with that point of view in my opinion.

I suppose the main argument to make is whether or not anime objectify women/men or not. In other words, are the "fanservice" scenes, as we like to call them, something that is meant to tantalize the viewer making the character an object? In my opinion, no it does not objectify the character, and to think it does is very demeaning, not just to the character, but us as viewers. Just because it is done in a sexual manner does not mean that we automatically ignore every other human part of that character, one fanservice scene does not throw away all the other aspects of that character in favor of them being a sex object to us.

Its more than that. Sexism is more than just seeing women as nothing more than a sexual object. Which guys like you don't seem to get.
Sexism is telling us men will always be more stronger than women, that women can't do anything without men, that a mans opinion on a women defines her worth, that women couldnt have possibly do/be like how they are without the help of a man, that women are powerless, that women always need to be saved (by a man), that women can't fight, etc etc.
Anything that indicates we are inferior to men in almost every way is sexist.

potentsativa wrote:

I think a better question is why does it even matter.

Because it only encourages gender stereotypes & it has an actual affect on people.


I'd rather you not insult my intelligence by claiming that sexism is something that "a guy like me doesn't seem to get", first things first that assumption you made there could be considered sexist in of itself; but unlike you I'm not going to resort to ad hominems to prove my case. Secondly I was commenting on a very specific aspect of anime which were the "fanservice" scenes, which the argument to be made in that case was the objectifying of people. The fact that I centered my initial post on that aspect of sexism doesn't mean that I am ignorant to every other part of it, that's just you making an assumption about what I know and what I don't know; which I don't exactly appreciate.

And no, what you listed isn't sexism in it's entirety. Is it a crucial part of it? Yes, but saying that your definition of sexism is better than mine is pretty, and I'll be frank here, rude. Sexism is a very complicated beast, and condensing it to "making women look inferior to men" is doing a disservice to feminism as a whole in my honest opinion. Feminism and the erasing of sexism isn't solely about the portrayal of women being inferior to men, it's about getting rid of those harmful (keyword there) stereotypes of BOTH men and women in order to create a more equal society beneficial to everyone. Things like the patriarchy, gender stereotypes, and double standards are harmful to everybody, not just women, so that is something that needs to be clarified.

With that said, I might as well properly rebut your statements even if you didn't give me the same courtesy. Does anime portray women as inferior to men? Not necessarily, while most anime do in fact have men in the more active role while women in the more passive you have to realize that it's not a case of the anime being sexist but rather that they have a specific audience in mind. Guys tend to like watching guy heroes in the main lead, there's nothing inherently wrong with that, it's simple demographics and a symptom of the fluid market. It's not even something that enforces those gender stereotypes much. While I could mention things like periphery demographics, once again I'd rather keep this concise since this is a general topic.

There are plenty of anime that either show women in a strong role, or in certain cases even in a superior role. Any times they are seemingly "inferior to men" (and for the life of me I can't think of any specific examples at the moment), it is likely for story telling reasons in order to introduce development for their character. It is important to note while some scenes may portray a women as inferior in certain circumstances (once again, context is important), those scenes are part of a larger whole and they don't actually advocate for sexist attitudes.

As for it having an actual effect on people, do you happen to have any sources for that? Because what you're claiming is that the portrayal of sexist behaviors in anime will have an effect on the viewers themselves, in other words a variation of the "Mean World" phenomenon. Which simply doesn't have any basis in scientific fact, much like violence in videogames, sexism in media doesn't cause the viewers to pick up sexist behavior. Unless your argument is something else entirely, then ignore what I'm saying here.

This is what I mean when you don't get it.
11023 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
M / Australia
Offline
Posted 7/4/15
Anime is what it is, if you have a problem with it dont watch it. Simple.
It was like 99% aimed at a male audience, now that has changed and there is plenty of anime aimed at a female audience or suitable for both genders now.
As others have said, males in anime are usually either tall and masculine, or shy and geeky, as oppsed to girls being either sexy with big boobs an skimpy outfits or cute.
Goes both ways.
Some anime is simply aimed at a male audience. But i think there's plenty of strong female character in anime. Often the males are weak.
11760 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
31 / M / New York
Online
Posted 7/4/15
No more then any other form of media but yes it is to a point. But it has gotten better in recent years.
9541 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
19 / M
Offline
Posted 7/4/15

sundin13 wrote:


megahobbit wrote:
1. Uhh yes it is having a prevalance of these shows without a balance reinforces one view of women onto the cultural mindset. If the only way women are portrayed is as 10/10 hot gawking material to be objectified it is sexist. If we had a wide range of female characters an the majority wasnt 10/10 hot gawking material it wouldnt be sexist. Not that 10/10 hot gawking material is bad but when thats all you have its just stupid.

Expanding the target audience of anime is nothing but a good thing in my opinion.

2. There are other ways to show that character trait besides feeling up young children. But I was also referring to the moment were the one boring girl gets the snake in her mouth thing.

This is gonna sound cringeworthy but Vash and his worldview did have a profound affect on my life. Vash is supposed to be a noble hero. Vash does the right thing and even in his goofiest moments shows respect for people. You can show he is a pervert in other ways besides molesting women. The first nine episodes already did that.

But to your definition of sexism. See thats hard to say cause nothing is really objectively sexist in media. Its all up to argument and interpretation. Feminist critique of a work is separate to me from enjoyment for me. There really is not a checklist merit system were something is objectively sexist or not. Thats kinda how analysis works. I view what the anime shows me and I see it through a lense of my personal worldview.

But sexist at least how it applies to this situation(words are fluid) is something that reinforces outdated and harmful cultural notions about about women. This relates to the bigger definition of sexism a system that oppresses a gender(that gender is women in case your wondering). Sexism like Racism and Classism is a system that oppresses an oppressed demographic of people. IE a women cant be sexist cause there isnt a system of oppression backing it(they can be prejudiced which is still bad, but there still aint a system of oppression keeping the man down), same thing with racism (a minority cant really be racist cause there isnt a system of oppression backing it)

It should be noted that im not gonna be debating the last two paragraphs with anyone. Im probably not gonna change your mind your probably not gonna change mine.


1. Uhhhhhh...no its not. If sales numbers and demographics show that a larger number of men enjoy fanservice, why should production companies pump out failure after failure just to satisfy some sort of quota?

As for saying "the only way women are portrayed is as attractive is sexist", again, I disagree. Anime as a whole features extremely idealized characters for both men and women (however there are a large rainbow a character types for both genders). The only time that this can be seen as a problem (not sexist necessarily, but bad writing) is if the characters do nothing but be attractive which I've stated multiple times is not usually the case. In my experience, it is usually the male lead who is the cardboard cutout while the female leads get the character development backstory and personality in shows such as romance anime, where this "pretty face 'problem'" seems to be the most noticable.

While expanding the target audience would likely be a good thing for viewers (for production companies it could go either way), that does not make anything in this situation sexist.

2. "There are other ways...". There are always other ways. In writing, you could avoid all the sensitive subjects and make something clean and PC, but thats not how art works. You could always write something differently, and often, if given a pen on a different day, something different might happen. However, if you as the artist choose to do something, you should be encouraged to do it even if it may be seen as sensitive. The "There are other ways" argument does not in any way prove sexism, it just dislodges the conversation towards censorship and other nonsense which does not prove the initial point.

The female characters in Monogatari are in general very well developed and often in a way that both consciously accepts and subverts the character tropes that they "fall in to". For example, Senjougahara is a damsel in distress and she accepts that role and plays the part when it suits her, however, she often shows that she will subvert that role and act as the dominant one in the relationship or play different parts based on who she is. That is largely what Monogatari is about.

You have a problem with Araragi's treatment of Hachikuji? Well, thats on you. Might it be uncomfortable for some people? Sure, and that is fine. However, that does not make it sexist, and I believe that the character of Hachikuji is actually fairly interesting, from her first story to the relationship she develops with Arararagi to the other arcs she is involved in. She is not reduced to nothing but a sex object and she often provides Ararararagi with advice or guidance or support. She shows plenty of agency in their relationship.

Definition of sexism:

"But to your definition of sexism. See thats hard to say cause nothing is really objectively sexist in media"

And everything flies out the window. How can we even have a rational discussion about something that is on such flimsy ground? That is why I don't like classifying fiction as sexism. Because the word sexism means different things to everybody and thus becomes useless. What good is a word without meaning, and what good is throwing it around arbitrarily other than to act sensationalistically?

"something that reinforces outdated and harmful cultural notions about about women"

Well, that isn't really a problem (or sexist). I stated before that "no character type is off limits". If a human chooses to be a stereotypical female, than who am I to say "no, you cant do that!"? Similarly, a character cannot be deprived of their ability to be normal and portraying a character who is stereotypical is not sexist nor a problem.

That would be like calling a gangster movie racist if it featured black people. Does it reinforce a stereotype? Sure, but no character type is off limits. People in the real world follow that path, so we should not set up bars on art saying "you cannot depict this because it is 'harmful'."

However, as I stated in my discussions with anzn, I do not believe that anime at large depicts women in general in a negative way. There are obviously specific examples of women (and men and children) being weak or being saved, but there is a whole slew of shows which feature strong female characters, often outshining the men characters (or in a show lacking male characters altogether). Strong female characters and fleshed out female characters are anything but rare in anime.

"bigger definition of sexism a system that oppresses a gender":

While I cannot speak to Japanese culture, I think I can say that anime isn't oppressing people. You are really going to have to do some heavy lifting to verify that statement.

"a women cant be sexist cause there isnt a system of oppression backing it":

Okay, this statement makes me angry for so many reasons. First of all, females have a huge list of privileges in western culture, often throughout systems such as the legal system and the education system. There is no system of oppression and women are not oppressed in western culture and to suggest such is an insult to those who are actually oppressed.

Second of all, if a woman can say in all seriousness that men should be killed off to lower the percentage to around 10% without being considered sexist, than I call bullshit. Also, these sociological definitions are nonsense, completely changing the definition of the word sexism to something that fits the feminist agenda.

You say there isn't a "system of oppression keeping men down" and yet the percentage of men in Universities is declining (and yet affirmative action continues to push for more women in college! A 60/40 split isn't enough!), the early education system is largely centered towards females, domestic violence against men is largely ignored or laughed at, rape of men is largely downplayed or even suggested to not exist (with feminist groups campaigning to prevent the definition of rape from being changed to included forced envelopment), men are given far harsher criminal penalties for the same crimes, women are favored in family courts, etc. and yet women are oppressed because of...sexy anime characters.

And then I read that you aren't going to reply to any of this. Oh well, I've said my piece... I hope I at least in a small part demonstrated that your buzzwords aren't as accurate to reality as you may think.


Its one in the morning, I just worked a 8 hour shift at work, then got lost on my way to a party for about an hour, only to get to a party and hang around miserably sexist and racist people. Now im faced with this wall of text.

Im going to sleep.
15084 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
25 / M
Offline
Posted 7/4/15

megahobbit wrote

Its one in the morning, I just worked a 8 hour shift at work, then got lost on my way to a party for about an hour, only to get to a party and hang around miserably sexist and racist people. Now im faced with this wall of text.

Im going to sleep.


What can I say....I'm not shy about confronting complex subject matter or vehemently disagreeing with misguided opinions.

I do hope that you will choose to come back to this in the morning and confront some of the points I brought up (even if you choose to ignore some of them), but for now, I shall bid you adieu ^~^
8138 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Offline
Posted 7/4/15
Putting Feminist agendas aside, another poster caused me to look up the Bechdel Test on Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bechdel_test . A more serious concern as pointed out in the article is if women are being portrayed as one dimensional and only in context to the male characters. I think as Anime fans we demand and get character development.

Even more interesting was the mention of the Sexy Lamp Test; If you can replace your female character with a sexy lamp and the story still basically works, maybe you need another draft.

These are interesting things to think about to see if we viewers are being short changed in the character development department.

One of the things I like about Anime is even if the woman is in full blown fan service, the guy gives her complete and full respect.

17710 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
(´◔౪◔)✂❤
Offline
Posted 7/4/15
Some anime can be extremely sexist. To deny that would be completely absurd and ignorant. For example, wanting to bang beautiful women who are mentally babies is a weird phenomenon in anime. Feeling like the ideal women is basically a six year old in the body of a 20 year old is pretty fucked up even if it's not sexist. Men should be insulted if this is what is being portrayed as their ideal.
First  Prev  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  10  11  12  13  14  15  16  17  Next  Last
You must be logged in to post.