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Post Reply The threat of nuclear war is greater than ever
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Posted 7/12/15

nanikore2 wrote:


pirththee wrote:


600 billion dollar a year defense budget is hardly complacency and I'd like to point out the that Vox .com is not unbiased.Does anybody really entertain the idea that with the state of current technology the US government still relies on "Red Phones" ,the Dew line, Duck and Cover, SAC,and Civil Defense shelters. Those are just some of the laughable safeguards of the cold war era.There isn't any preparation that is going to stop the vast majority of us from being incinerated and it isn't going to be just nationally specific.You have more to fear from the farmers fields in North and South Dakota then you have from Moscow or Beijing.


Complacency is not about how much anyone spends but how seriously a change in policy is taken.


pirththee wrote:

If the state of the Russians intelligence community has degenerated to the point where their top secret strategic doctrine is published in Vox and discussed in the CR forums then i'd say that there is very little to fear.This sounds alot like Dr. Strangelove.


The entire point was for it to not be secret. The entire point of MAD back in the Cold War days was that it wasn't secret.


Even at the height of the cold war when the mutually assured destruction and the doctrines of "deterrence" were originated neither the US, the Chinese,nor the Soviets ever talked publicly about how they intended to accomplish this or any strategic goal.They'd showcase missiles on Mayday or press covered military revues, release video of nuclear tests, but never released their strategic plans to the press.Right back to Dr Strangelove again.Tactical nuclear battle plans were already in place by the 1950's very old news there.In fact in the 60's NATO"S deterrent for Soviet armored divisions was always tactical nukes. Let me point out that for all of your concern on this subject there is absolutely nothing you can do about putting the nuclear genie back in the bottle .So you can run screaming into the night which offers no protection anyway or just accept it.
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Posted 7/12/15

pirththee wrote:


nanikore2 wrote:


pirththee wrote:


600 billion dollar a year defense budget is hardly complacency and I'd like to point out the that Vox .com is not unbiased.Does anybody really entertain the idea that with the state of current technology the US government still relies on "Red Phones" ,the Dew line, Duck and Cover, SAC,and Civil Defense shelters. Those are just some of the laughable safeguards of the cold war era.There isn't any preparation that is going to stop the vast majority of us from being incinerated and it isn't going to be just nationally specific.You have more to fear from the farmers fields in North and South Dakota then you have from Moscow or Beijing.


Complacency is not about how much anyone spends but how seriously a change in policy is taken.


pirththee wrote:

If the state of the Russians intelligence community has degenerated to the point where their top secret strategic doctrine is published in Vox and discussed in the CR forums then i'd say that there is very little to fear.This sounds alot like Dr. Strangelove.


The entire point was for it to not be secret. The entire point of MAD back in the Cold War days was that it wasn't secret.


Even at the height of the cold war when the mutually assured destruction and the doctrines of "deterrence" were originated neither the US, the Chinese,nor the Soviets ever talked publicly about how they intended to accomplish this or any strategic goal.They'd showcase missiles on Mayday or press covered military revues, release video of nuclear tests, but never released their strategic plans to the press.Right back to Dr Strangelove again.Tactical nuclear battle plans were already in place by the 1950's very old news there.In fact in the 60's NATO"S deterrent for Soviet armored divisions was always tactical nukes. Let me point out that for all of your concern on this subject there is absolutely nothing you can do about putting the nuclear genie back in the bottle .So you can run screaming into the night which offers no protection anyway or just accept it.


This guys says it alot better than I ever could.
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Posted 7/12/15
"In war, our successes and our failures will define the course of human history. If we lose this war, then that history may very well come to an end. When this war demands sacrifices, remember that the price of victory is always paid in blood. Sometimes it's ours, sometimes it's theirs, but the price is always blood." Bloom, A.D. (2014-12-02).

We prepare for War, as the best way to avoid it. We defend ourselves to stand up to bullying behavior, we need to stand up a little every day or the price will be paid all at once. We ignored Napoleon and got Jena and Austerlitz. We ignored Serbian Nationalism and got Verdun and Somme. We ignored Axis Nationalism and got Poland and Pearl Harbor. We ignored North Korea and got the Korean War. When we stand up and face little injustices we don't let things get out of hand. Being scared is not unreasonable, but being prepared is reasonable and responsible.
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Posted 7/12/15

pirththee wrote:
Even at the height of the cold war when the mutually assured destruction and the doctrines of "deterrence" were originated neither the US, the Chinese,nor the Soviets ever talked publicly about how they intended to accomplish this or any strategic goal.They'd showcase missiles on Mayday or press covered military revues, release video of nuclear tests, but never released their strategic plans to the press.Right back to Dr Strangelove again.Tactical nuclear battle plans were already in place by the 1950's very old news there.In fact in the 60's NATO"S deterrent for Soviet armored divisions was always tactical nukes. Let me point out that for all of your concern on this subject there is absolutely nothing you can do about putting the nuclear genie back in the bottle .So you can run screaming into the night which offers no protection anyway or just accept it.


Yes, and I did say in the original post "last two or three decades of the Cold War". I didn't experience the Cuba episode, and I certainly wouldn't want to. The Crimea nuclear defense plan was also secret during the Crimea invasion. It was released afterwards due to some very obvious reasons.

So the conversation has come to the point of "what's the point of knowing, anyways?" Of course we can't do jack- Neither can the gov. I wanted to know; Whether others do is up to them.
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Posted 7/12/15

SelfConciousParadox wrote:

Nuclear warfare. If Russia plans to attack I fear one thing.
The fuse will be lit in which WW3 will start.
If 2015 happens to take place where WW3 begins I'll be scared of one more thing. And that isn't the war.
Should these predictions happen, we're going end up in a dystopia.


You're referring to John Titor, aren't you? Not the Steins;Gate one, but the real one from 1999?
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Posted 7/12/15

Nightblade370 wrote:


SelfConciousParadox wrote:

Nuclear warfare. If Russia plans to attack I fear one thing.
The fuse will be lit in which WW3 will start.
If 2015 happens to take place where WW3 begins I'll be scared of one more thing. And that isn't the war.
Should these predictions happen, we're going end up in a dystopia.


You're referring to John Titor, aren't you? Not the Steins;Gate one, but the real one from 1999?


John Titor is one piece of it as he did make the prediction, but Nuclear Warfare can cause a change reaction, because it's not a Armed Combat it's unavoidable. Nuclear Warfare would make us end up in a Dystopia whether the United States ruled, or another Country ruled.

I fear if it's 2015 mainly because of Nuclear bombs has many countries making their own. At this point in 2015 most large countries could join in this War. WW2 wasn't terrible for the Americans it didn't create a Dystopia because it didn't affect our Country that much, but should we have Nuclear War, our Country and people would be in Danger. Although WW2 was still a Dystopia for the Jewish as it was a totalitarian government for them as they were kept slaves only to be slaughtered.

Although I don't quite believe John Titor, the whole nuclear war idea still comes into mind. John Titor was most likely a delusional man but the fact that he brought up Nuclear War from Russia concerns me a little considering Nuclear Bombs are being created everywhere now.
But like I said I only would believe in the whole Dystopia idea mainly because it affects America directly unlike the other past wars.
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Posted 7/12/15

SelfConciousParadox wrote:


Nightblade370 wrote:


SelfConciousParadox wrote:

Nuclear warfare. If Russia plans to attack I fear one thing.
The fuse will be lit in which WW3 will start.
If 2015 happens to take place where WW3 begins I'll be scared of one more thing. And that isn't the war.
Should these predictions happen, we're going end up in a dystopia.


You're referring to John Titor, aren't you? Not the Steins;Gate one, but the real one from 1999?


John Titor is one piece of it as he did make the prediction, but Nuclear Warfare can cause a change reaction, because it's not a Armed Combat it's unavoidable. Nuclear Warfare would make us end up in a Dystopia whether the United States ruled, or another Country ruled.

I fear if it's 2015 mainly because of Nuclear bombs has many countries making their own. At this point in 2015 most large countries could join in this War. WW2 wasn't terrible for the Americans it didn't create a Dystopia because it didn't affect our Country that much, but should we have Nuclear War, our Country and people would be in Danger. Although WW2 was still a Dystopia for the Jewish as it was a totalitarian government for them as they were kept slaves only to be slaughtered.

Although I don't quite believe John Titor, the whole nuclear war idea still comes into mind. John Titor was most likely a delusional man but the fact that he brought up Nuclear War from Russia concerns me a little considering Nuclear Bombs are being created everywhere now.
But like I said I only would believe in the whole Dystopia idea mainly because it affects America directly unlike the other past wars.


Ah, no, I understand what you mean.

I thought you were referring to Titor's predictions in your original comment. I'm skeptical of the man and have no credible reason to believe him, but it would be a rather disturbing coincidence if it happened this year.
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Posted 7/12/15

Nightblade370 wrote:


SelfConciousParadox wrote:


Nightblade370 wrote:


SelfConciousParadox wrote:

Nuclear warfare. If Russia plans to attack I fear one thing.
The fuse will be lit in which WW3 will start.
If 2015 happens to take place where WW3 begins I'll be scared of one more thing. And that isn't the war.
Should these predictions happen, we're going end up in a dystopia.


You're referring to John Titor, aren't you? Not the Steins;Gate one, but the real one from 1999?


John Titor is one piece of it as he did make the prediction, but Nuclear Warfare can cause a change reaction, because it's not a Armed Combat it's unavoidable. Nuclear Warfare would make us end up in a Dystopia whether the United States ruled, or another Country ruled.

I fear if it's 2015 mainly because of Nuclear bombs has many countries making their own. At this point in 2015 most large countries could join in this War. WW2 wasn't terrible for the Americans it didn't create a Dystopia because it didn't affect our Country that much, but should we have Nuclear War, our Country and people would be in Danger. Although WW2 was still a Dystopia for the Jewish as it was a totalitarian government for them as they were kept slaves only to be slaughtered.

Although I don't quite believe John Titor, the whole nuclear war idea still comes into mind. John Titor was most likely a delusional man but the fact that he brought up Nuclear War from Russia concerns me a little considering Nuclear Bombs are being created everywhere now.
But like I said I only would believe in the whole Dystopia idea mainly because it affects America directly unlike the other past wars.


Ah, no, I understand what you mean.

I thought you were referring to Titor's predictions in your original comment. I'm skeptical of the man and have no credible reason to believe him, but it would be a rather disturbing coincidence if it happened this year.


It'd be more than a disturbing coincidence. I'd have no choice but to believe him. But since the possibility is low at 2015 we can assume the chances are higher by next year or a few.
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Posted 7/13/15
masks on, blades sharpened, head for the hills away from any major metropolis by at least 500 miles. nuclear fallout is no joke, and id rather be in the midwest away from coastal metropolitan targets
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Posted 7/13/15
That was an interesting read. I admit, I had no idea the US was having tensions with Russia since all we hear about is news from the Middle East. And what a surprise, it's almost for the same thing - resource interest. It's interesting how Putin is passive aggressive about it, avoiding any lawful conflict but still getting a point across. The theory of demolishing NATO is also interesting. Hmm.
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Posted 7/13/15

SelfConciousParadox wrote:

It'd be more than a disturbing coincidence. I'd have no choice but to believe him. But since the possibility is low at 2015 we can assume the chances are higher by next year or a few.


I'm about to go a little off topic, but since Titor came up (and I've watched a coupla episodes of Steins;Gate)...

Out of curiosity I went to a site containing Titor's past writings.

My conclusion after reading quite a bit of that very interesting fiction is that... It's very interesting fiction and no more than that.

The reason being is that if you look at his writings, there are numerous places where he slipped up- He referenced things in ways that people from about 10 years ago our time would do it, and not as if it's someone from another time entirely would. It's almost like a "break from character".

I would describe his slip-ups as a sort of anachronism. Kind of like people in the long past making a black-and-white movie about a supposed future that was in the past. That's what his writings sound like sometimes.

That's one way of looking at it.

Another way is even if you absolutely believe him, what he says has no bearing in our world because he was discussing his world line and not ours; His 2036 universe is a different universe from ours anyways even if you take everything he says at face value. (Thus no Civil War in 2012 and all those other stuff that obviously didn't come true)
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Posted 7/13/15
-Russia making moves on Eastern Europe.
-ISIS in the Middle East
-China's aggression towards the islands
-The US being the US.

If anything, I'm rather impressed that WW3 has yet to happen after the past decade and a half. Kinda makes you wonder what's really going on in the shadows of the world...

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Posted 7/13/15

nanikore2 wrote:


SelfConciousParadox wrote:

It'd be more than a disturbing coincidence. I'd have no choice but to believe him. But since the possibility is low at 2015 we can assume the chances are higher by next year or a few.


I'm about to go a little off topic, but since Titor came up (and I've watched a coupla episodes of Steins;Gate)...

Out of curiosity I went to a site containing Titor's past writings.

My conclusion after reading quite a bit of that very interesting fiction is that... It's very interesting fiction and no more than that.

The reason being is that if you look at his writings, there are numerous places where he slipped up- He referenced things in ways that people from about 10 years ago our time would do it, and not as if it's someone from another time entirely would. It's almost like a "break from character".

I would describe his slip-ups as a sort of anachronism. Kind of like people in the long past making a black-and-white movie about a supposed future that was in the past. That's what his writings sound like sometimes.

That's one way of looking at it.

Another way is even if you absolutely believe him, what he says has no bearing in our world because he was discussing his world line and not ours; His 2036 universe is a different universe from ours anyways even if you take everything he says at face value. (Thus no Civil War in 2012 and all those other stuff that obviously didn't come true)


:P That's a nice way to put it, although I don't take his information at face value. But if WW3 were to happened in 2015, I wouldn't help but have to take his information and look at it in a different way.
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Posted 7/13/15 , edited 7/13/15

nanikore2 wrote:


pirththee wrote:
Even at the height of the cold war when the mutually assured destruction and the doctrines of "deterrence" were originated neither the US, the Chinese,nor the Soviets ever talked publicly about how they intended to accomplish this or any strategic goal.They'd showcase missiles on Mayday or press covered military revues, release video of nuclear tests, but never released their strategic plans to the press.Right back to Dr Strangelove again.Tactical nuclear battle plans were already in place by the 1950's very old news there.In fact in the 60's NATO"S deterrent for Soviet armored divisions was always tactical nukes. Let me point out that for all of your concern on this subject there is absolutely nothing you can do about putting the nuclear genie back in the bottle .So you can run screaming into the night which offers no protection anyway or just accept it.


Yes, and I did say in the original post "last two or three decades of the Cold War". I didn't experience the Cuba episode, and I certainly wouldn't want to. The Crimea nuclear defense plan was also secret during the Crimea invasion. It was released afterwards due to some very obvious reasons.

So the conversation has come to the point of "what's the point of knowing, anyways?" Of course we can't do jack- Neither can the gov. I wanted to know; Whether others do is up to them.


It's funny because I remember protesting this very issue in the 70's and then coming to the realization that it was then 30 years too late Now all that you can hope to achieve is containment and rational dialogue (treaties) with those that possess them.Policy change, making more bombs, three tier defense systems ,or deeper holes won't make the average citizen one iota safer because no one country or alliance controls all.Reworking cold war rhetoric won't do it either. It could be postulated that until people start to identify themselves as a global community and not one of a national or local interest that the threat of war and nuclear war will always exist.Good luck with that.
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Posted 7/13/15 , edited 7/13/15
There will always be a threat of nuclear war until something more devastating appears. And hey, so long as you die in the initial blast it could be legit the best way you can hope to go. you won't know what hit you, as for the "survivors" .......
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