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Post Reply Cultural Isolation and the Anime/Gaming Fandom.
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Posted 7/12/15 , edited 7/12/15

Nightblade370 wrote:




Honestly, I think it's more an issue that being able to talk about anime or gaming outside the internet is a difficult thing to do, so when presented with the opportunity to talk about something they love or given an environment or person to do so with, they jump on it. I mean, anybody can talk about sports or the news or their daily lives with ease, but for many, talking about gaming or anime is difficult because society looks down on the gamer or the anime-lover, no matter how social they may be.

As a result, especially for the people who love it, when they find someone else who honestly enjoys games and anime (not the guy pretending to be nerdy to be a hipster, but a genuine gamer or anime-lover), they want to talk about their passion, the thing they love, more than anything else with them because they have nobody else to talk to about it. Anime or gaming might bring out who they truly are and talking about other subjects all the time that don't interest them gets dull after a while.

Furthermore, very few people in society are really the "well-rounded" "I-do-everything-and-anything" kind of person and it's more common to find people who love something in particular, like the sports fan who buys official jerseys, paints his/her face, and goes to every game (at home or away) or the guy whose constantly following the news and making predictions on the state of the world, the economy, and domestic affairs or the guy whose obsessed with their job and who strives to reach the very top, even if it means fixing cars everyday and being the best in town.

In short: Passion is a necessary part of being one's true self for many and people love talking about their passions. As to how open-minded they are in trying new things is really an issue of the individual rather than an issue exclusive to the anime or gaming community.

For that matter, however, if you're on the internet in an anime or game forum (like Crunchyroll) or in an Anime Club meeting or doing co-op with other gamers, I think it's only natural that other subjects won't be brought up unless you're really close to that person, if that eases the mind.






Okay if you think gaming is hard to talk about in society you must be living in amishville. Im talking about a self isolation.

But lets go forward onto anime. Heres the deal if you want society to accept anime and its fandom it has to meet society halfway. You have to interact with society outside of anime to understand and connect it to other things. You cant have your cake and eat it too we must be part of the culture if anime is to be accepted as part of it. If you want it to be treated as normal be normal and interact with others outside of anime. Show the doubters anime fans are not some scraggly losers and normal people who are just as aware of the culture as they are.

Just as an appreciation of film can give someone a deeper understanding of anime so can an appreciation of anime give one a deeper understanding of films like Pacific Rim. Im not saying be passionate about these hobbies is bad. Im passionate about anime, im passionate about music, and I at one point was incredibely passionate about games. Im not saying that you should abandon these but merely one should expand there interests.


Furthermore, very few people in society are really the "well-rounded" "I-do-everything-and-anything" kind of person and it's more common to find people who love something in particular, like the sports fan who buys official jerseys, paints his/her face, and goes to every game (at home or away) or the guy whose constantly following the news and making predictions on the state of the world, the economy, and domestic affairs or the guy whose obsessed with their job and who strives to reach the very top, even if it means fixing cars everyday and being the best in town.


All those people face the same problem I mentioned in the first post just with a different interest. They are all cases of cultural isolation and they are all bad. Im not asking that we should all be renaissance men but that we should be more open to other media and be more aware of our surroundings.
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Posted 7/12/15 , edited 7/12/15
I may be grasping at what you're talking about, but sometimes in a conversation someone will mention something you(or me) are really passionate about, and to the person who brought the topic up, it's just a conversation topic that they just know of but to the person they're talking to it's something more so that person thinks the other person shares that passion, and so will talk about in depth,but the person who brought the topic up actually doesn't care alot about it.(Probably happens more to people who have no friends who share said interest).

Also, in some cases, cultural isolation is forced-for most for my life I haven't had current technology that allowed me to be in the know of what was culturally happening around me in the USA.
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Posted 7/12/15 , edited 7/12/15

patrickdesu wrote:

I'm one of those people who can only be friends with anime/game afficionados, and frankly I do not care at all that that severley limits my ability to make friends. All I want is people who I can relate, too and are fun. I am not a mainstream dude(just stating a fact not making insults), and I could care less if I cannot relate to them.


Dude I listen to Japanese musicians with homebuilt instruments making ear piercing noise on a nigh daily basis. My favorite band released an album called Songs about Fucking with a anime chicks grunting face on the front, and I have an interest in serial killers. Im not a mainstream dude either. But I realize that basic cultural knowledge will greatly benefit me in more ways than making friends. An understanding of cinema will greatly increase your enjoyment of anime for example.

Secondly friendships can be formed on a common basis but if all you care about in a friend is that they share the same interests as you you have a pretty shallow friendship. A very good friend of mine I met when we had nothing in common he was a dorky nintendo obsessed kid who was incredibely shy. I was a scraggly anime obsessed dweeb. Over time we talked and grew to like each other solely based on our personalities. Know he watches anime but my point stands that a friendship isnt about the persons interest but the persons personality. I have discovered that talking with friends no matter what the subject is, is a great activity cause I just like them so much as people.

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Posted 7/12/15

megahobbit wrote:
Thats a good point. I dont think all anime fans are like this or even a majority but there is sizable group of people who are like this out there. Maybe ive been hanging around 4chan too long.


The thing about stereotypes is that they exist for a reason. It is not that they accurately represent a group. It is that they portray a highly visible and either vocal or obnoxious subset of that group that overshadows the majority. There is good reason the stereotype exists, it just doesn't accurately represent the vast majority of the group it originates in.

I was incredibly amused when on the way to attend Gen Con and the Colts fans painted white and blue were mocking cosplayers. If one group is ridiculous, the other certainly is as well. I don't see much difference between them aside from the overall social acceptability. The same sorts of behaviors in a sports fan and an anime fan receive different reactions from most people because of preconceptions about normalcy and acceptability rather than the actual content of said behaviors. This isn't anything new though. It does mean that odd levels of devotion to a hobby and a bit of social awkwardness get overlooked if it is one of the hobbies on the socially normal list versus one on the "odd" list. These things do shift over time though, talking about RPGs and druids was hardcore nerd-speak for quite a while but the popularity and the reach of World of Warcraft helped mainstream a lot of fantasy and RPG concepts considerably.

A more varied set of interests tends to correlate with happier people in my experience. I have to wonder if there is any data relating to that out there, I'll have to do some digging on that later and see what I can turn up. As an occasional insomniac with an interest in research data and methods I do like the occasional research question "bone" to chew.
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Posted 7/12/15 , edited 7/12/15

LordDust wrote:


megahobbit wrote:
Thats a good point. I dont think all anime fans are like this or even a majority but there is sizable group of people who are like this out there. Maybe ive been hanging around 4chan too long.


The thing about stereotypes is that they exist for a reason. It is not that they accurately represent a group. It is that they portray a highly visible and either vocal or obnoxious subset of that group that overshadows the majority. There is good reason the stereotype exists, it just doesn't accurately represent the vast majority of the group it originates in.

I was incredibly amused when on the way to attend Gen Con and the Colts fans painted white and blue were mocking cosplayers. If one group is ridiculous, the other certainly is as well. I don't see much difference between them aside from the overall social acceptability. The same sorts of behaviors in a sports fan and an anime fan receive different reactions from most people because of preconceptions about normalcy and acceptability rather than the actual content of said behaviors. This isn't anything new though. It does mean that odd levels of devotion to a hobby and a bit of social awkwardness get overlooked if it is one of the hobbies on the socially normal list versus one on the "odd" list. These things do shift over time though, talking about RPGs and druids was hardcore nerd-speak for quite a while but the popularity and the reach of World of Warcraft helped mainstream a lot of fantasy and RPG concepts considerably.

A more varied set of interests tends to correlate with happier people in my experience. I have to wonder if there is any data relating to that out there, I'll have to do some digging on that later and see what I can turn up. As an occasional insomniac with an interest in research data and methods I do like the occasional research question "bone" to chew.


Cool man. My point though is that I feel even if the cultural hobby is more socially acceptable its still a problem. I could give less of a fuck what the culture think about what I enjoy. I do care that I understand said culture. You dont have to respect said culture or even like it. But understand it.
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Posted 7/12/15

megahobbit wrote:
Cool man. My point though is that I feel even if the cultural hobby is more socially acceptable its still a problem. I could give less of a fuck what the culture think about what I enjoy. I do care that I understand said culture and not abandon it.


I can agree that it is important to understand cultures you are involved with, even if that involvement is limited to consuming some of their entertainment. As far as abandoning culture, I have mixed feelings on that. My grandfather chose not to have anything to do with our Native American heritage, as a result all I know about it is what I have been able to research. Since I look plain white bread (he had darker skin and other traits that showed a bit more) I feel awkward about approaching actual tribal resources for information and have not yet done so. So that particular abandonment of culture bothers me. At the same time though, there are aspects of mainstream American culture that I find offensive sometimes. Sometimes it does make me feel like withdrawing from it and refusing to participate in the culture as much as I am able to. As is probably obvious from my earlier statements, I have not done so thus far. I can't say the idea is entirely without appeal though.
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Posted 7/12/15

LordDust wrote:


megahobbit wrote:
Cool man. My point though is that I feel even if the cultural hobby is more socially acceptable its still a problem. I could give less of a fuck what the culture think about what I enjoy. I do care that I understand said culture and not abandon it.


I can agree that it is important to understand cultures you are involved with, even if that involvement is limited to consuming some of their entertainment. As far as abandoning culture, I have mixed feelings on that. My grandfather chose not to have anything to do with our Native American heritage, as a result all I know about it is what I have been able to research. Since I look plain white bread (he had darker skin and other traits that showed a bit more) I feel awkward about approaching actual tribal resources for information and have not yet done so. So that particular abandonment of culture bothers me. At the same time though, there are aspects of mainstream American culture that I find offensive sometimes. Sometimes it does make me feel like withdrawing from it and refusing to participate in the culture as much as I am able to. As is probably obvious from my earlier statements, I have not done so thus far. I can't say the idea is entirely without appeal though.


Cool story man. I get the want to isolate yourself an abandond yourself from the culture. I do detest alot of American culture. But I believe understanding and working to fix said culture is better than abandoning it. You need to understand culture if your going to fight it. Satire is one of the greatest forms of fighting culture and that requires an understanding and knowledge of that culture to mock it.

Though in something like Punk Rock people did entirely abandon culture and create there own which is an admirable thing to do especially given punks level of DIY interactivity and broadness of interests and topics(in the height there was DIY films, magazines, comedy, and art not just music). We as anime fans dont have the luxury of creating our own culture.
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Posted 7/12/15 , edited 7/12/15



...

A quick tangent:

Firstly, I will say I still hold that gaming is a niche community. Not everyone in society is familiar with gaming beyond the stereotypes depicted in the media and even then, they might just being familiar with a few triple A titles and some casual cellphone games like Candy Crush. That doesn't make them apart of the gaming community. A gamer needs to be versed in a variety of games and be open to exploring gaming, which is the very point you are making about gamers and anime-lovers doing the same with other activities. Being engrossed in something, no matter what it is, requires exposure and understanding.

Furthermore, I couldn't care less if gaming or anime is accepted by greater society because in truth, I only want to be surrounded by people who genuinely love the communities. I couldn't care less about how we are looked at either (because honestly, any niche community will always be looked at with a stereotypical eye, regardless of who they are); rather, I was explaining in my original post the reality of how people adapt to the fact that we are recognized as a niche community.

...

My main point:

With that said, the truth is I agree with you on the matter that people should not be hypocritical and complain about others not liking what they like if they don't attempt to share their interest and be open-minded in the process. Furthermore, I do believe being open-minded will lead to greater horizons for an individual if they end up finding something they truly love or appreciate in the end. To people who have these personalities, adapting to many different thing is what makes them happy and I encourage people to pursue that. In fact, I love to try new things all the time and tend to be one of these personalities.

However, like I said before, it is all dependent on the individual, not the collective.

I hold that if a person wants to be a specialist in anime, gaming, or whatever, doesn't care to expand their interests, and is perfectly content with talking about their subjects solely with like-minded people, then this is completely fine and I encourage that they do just that. As I said before, there are people who are specialists and like to specialize because it brings out who they truly are and these people shouldn't be forced to talk about or do anything they don't like to do because society demands them to be "well-rounded". This goes for anybody else with any other interest, really.

Posted 7/12/15 , edited 7/13/15
Edited some mistakes:
I used to be the same way.
I was such a little anti-social atheist/nihilistic weirdo who hated literally everyone outside of the internet and my Japanese anime's & video games.
I only listened to video game & anime osts as well.
I would talk shit about people who go out on parties, drink, smoke weed, like popular music artists, facebook, twitter w/e.
People like that are so boring, closed-minded and shallow. They hate the world and everything in it besides their Japanese anime's & games or nerdy shit in general.
They're closed off & rejecting of others because they feel no one would understand them, make fun if them, and/or reject them. When its really the opposite.
THEYRE the ones who decided to immediately think that way about everyone not like them. Then reject them from their interests alone.
People really don't care or mind their interests. They'd be glad to have a nerdy friend or two actually.

Most of my friends nowadays aren't that into any nerdy stuff (or not as much as me anyway). That includes both online & offline (IRL) friends.
They're some of the most closed minded, self-entitled, bratty, uninteresting and rudest group of people I've ever met.
I'm so glad I got out of that. (And now I'm those people they talked shit about. lmao it feels better though)

Sorry I kinda went off on a rant.
I just hate nerd culture so much.
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Posted 7/12/15 , edited 7/12/15

Nightblade370 wrote:




...

A quick tangent:

Firstly, I will say I still hold that gaming is a niche community. Not everyone in society is familiar with gaming beyond the stereotypes depicted in the media and even then, they might just being familiar with a few triple A titles and some casual cellphone games like Candy Crush. That doesn't make them apart of the gaming community. A gamer needs to be versed in a variety of games and be open to exploring gaming, which is the very point you are making about gamers and anime-lovers doing the same with other activities. Being engrossed in something, no matter what it is, requires exposure and understanding.

Furthermore, I couldn't care less if gaming or anime is accepted by greater society because in truth, I only want to be surrounded by people who genuinely love the communities. I couldn't care less about how we are looked at either (because honestly, any niche community will always be looked at with a stereotypical eye, regardless of who they are); rather, I was explaining in my original post the reality of how people adapt to the fact that we are recognized as a niche community.

...

My main point:

With that said, the truth is I agree with you on the matter that people should not be hypocritical and complain about others not liking what they like if they don't attempt to share their interest and be open-minded in the process. Furthermore, I do believe being open-minded will lead to greater horizons for an individual if they end up finding something they truly love or appreciate in the end. To people who have these personalities, adapting to many different thing is what makes them happy and I encourage people to pursue that. In fact, I love to try new things all the time and tend to be one of these personalities.

However, like I said before, it is all dependent on the individual, not the collective.

I hold that if a person wants to be a specialist in anime, gaming, or whatever, doesn't care to expand their interests, and is perfectly content with talking about their subjects solely with like-minded people, then this is completely fine and I encourage that they do just that. As I said before, there are people who are specialists and like to specialize because it brings out who they truly are and these people shouldn't be forced to talk about or do anything they don't like to do because society demands them to be "well-rounded". This goes for anybody else with any other interest, really.



97 percent of American kids play video games. Lets Players rival the viewing audience of cable channels. Thats not a niche community. The only reason we see it as such is because the older generation views it as a niche community cause it was one when they were first exposed to it.


I hold that if a person wants to be a specialist in anime, gaming, or whatever, doesn't care to expand their interests, and is perfectly content with talking about their subjects solely with like-minded people, then this is completely fine and I encourage that they do just that. As I said before, there are people who are specialists and like to specialize because it brings out who they truly are and these people shouldn't be forced to talk about or do anything they don't like to do because society demands them to be "well-rounded". This goes for anybody else with any other interest, really.


There is nothing wrong with obsessing over something that makes you happy but only intaking this single type of medium that makes you happy is not healthy. Certianly its not gonna hurt if you start reading more and develop and understanding of symbolism in literature. Like I said before it doesnt just give you a greater appreciation for the culture outside of what like but for the thing you like itself.

For example I take it that you like me are a Persona fan. So much of Persona 3 and to a lesser extant 4 is drenched in Jungian psychology and earlier titles in various types of mythology. Ones understanding of these subjects can increase there enjoyment and understanding of the game by realizing the references and meaning behind what there playing. The concept of Persona's in 3 and what they mean is directly lifted from the concept of the animus in Carl Jungs works.

Edit I said "what they means" I should go to sleep.
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anzn wrote:

I used to be the same way. Because I was just a little anti-social atheist/nihilistic weirdo who hated literally everyone outside of the internet and my Japanese anime's & video games.
I only listened to video game & anime osts as well.
I would talk shit about people who go out on parties, drink, smoke weed, like popular music artists, facebook, twitter w/e.
People like that are so boring, closed-minded and shallow. They hate the world and everything in it besides their Japanese anime's & games or nerdy shit in general.
They're closed off & rejecting of others because they feel no one would understand them, make fun if them, and/or reject them. When its really the best opposites. THEY'RE the ones who decided to immediately think that way about everyone not like them.
People really don't care or mind their interests. They'd be glad to gave a nerdy friend or two.
This is why I hate nerds/nerd culture.
Most of my friends nowadays aren't that into any nerdy stuff (or not as much as me anyway). That includes both online & offline (IRL) friends.
They're some of the most closed minded, self-entitled, bratty, uninteresting and rudest group of people I've ever met.
I'm so glad I got out of that. (And now I'm those people they talked shit about. lmao it feels better though)

Sorry I kinda went off on a rant.
I just hate nerd culture so much.


I think you might find this interesting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udarBlE07N4
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Posted 7/13/15

anzn wrote:

Edited some mistakes:
I used to be the same way.
I was such a little anti-social atheist/nihilistic weirdo who hated literally everyone outside of the internet and my Japanese anime's & video games.
I only listened to video game & anime osts as well.
I would talk shit about people who go out on parties, drink, smoke weed, like popular music artists, facebook, twitter w/e.
People like that are so boring, closed-minded and shallow. They hate the world and everything in it besides their Japanese anime's & games or nerdy shit in general.
They're closed off & rejecting of others because they feel no one would understand them, make fun if them, and/or reject them. When its really the opposite.
THEYRE the ones who decided to immediately think that way about everyone not like them. Then reject them from their interests alone.
People really don't care or mind their interests. They'd be glad to have a nerdy friend or two actually.

Most of my friends nowadays aren't that into any nerdy stuff (or not as much as me anyway). That includes both online & offline (IRL) friends.
They're some of the most closed minded, self-entitled, bratty, uninteresting and rudest group of people I've ever met.
I'm so glad I got out of that. (And now I'm those people they talked shit about. lmao it feels better though)

Sorry I kinda went off on a rant.
I just hate nerd culture so much.


I don't really have a problem with nerd culture itself. I have a problem with segments of any culture that get too self-referential and can't see past the end of their own nose. The internet frequently brings out the loudest, most elitist, most obnoxious, and lest representative portion of almost every group. If you judge groups largely by what you find on the internet you're likely to come away with a skewed and negative impression. If you're talking about real life, it sucks that you've mainly encountered those sorts of folks in terms of nerds. Most of those I know wouldn't really fit the description there. Those kind exist, but they aren't the majority in my experience.

I think the way those that are different from the mainstream get treated varies based on their own confidence and on the local cultural norms. The US isn't culturally monolithic. Some areas you can be pretty different and folks are cool with it. Some places I've lived it can cause you a lot of trouble. Nerds and geeks were not appreciated or well tolerated where I went to high school. Being different at all wasn't really well tolerated. They tried setting my locker on fire when word got around I played D&D. Of course, they also threw actual rocks at a couple of girls that kissed before parting ways for class too. It wasn't, and probably isn't (haven't had a good reason to go back since graduation), one of the more progressive places in the US. I could defend myself and I don't assume everyone is worthless because some people are. There are nerdy folks though that don't have enough confidence and/or personal strength (whether physical or mental) to handle stuff like that if it happens. It can make a person pretty bitter. So I'd have to say that while your rant certainly applies to some nerds and some involved in nerd culture, not all of the bitter folks are coming from there. Some of them have real reasons to feel the way they do, whether or not that is the best way to handle it.
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Posted 7/13/15 , edited 7/13/15

anzn wrote:

Edited some mistakes:
I used to be the same way.
I was such a little anti-social atheist/nihilistic weirdo who hated literally everyone outside of the internet and my Japanese anime's & video games.
I only listened to video game & anime osts as well.
I would talk shit about people who go out on parties, drink, smoke weed, like popular music artists, facebook, twitter w/e.
People like that are so boring, closed-minded and shallow. They hate the world and everything in it besides their Japanese anime's & games or nerdy shit in general.
They're closed off & rejecting of others because they feel no one would understand them, make fun if them, and/or reject them. When its really the opposite.
THEYRE the ones who decided to immediately think that way about everyone not like them. Then reject them from their interests alone.
People really don't care or mind their interests. They'd be glad to have a nerdy friend or two actually.

Most of my friends nowadays aren't that into any nerdy stuff (or not as much as me anyway). That includes both online & offline (IRL) friends.
They're some of the most closed minded, self-entitled, bratty, uninteresting and rudest group of people I've ever met.
I'm so glad I got out of that. (And now I'm those people they talked shit about. lmao it feels better though)

Sorry I kinda went off on a rant.
I just hate nerd culture so much.


sorry this kinda struck me as funny since you on CR and what not. Nothing wrong with hating nerd culture and being on CR at the same time, just funny.

only peeps I make fun of since, straight edge
Posted 7/13/15

megahobbit wrote:


anzn wrote:

I used to be the same way. Because I was just a little anti-social atheist/nihilistic weirdo who hated literally everyone outside of the internet and my Japanese anime's & video games.
I only listened to video game & anime osts as well.
I would talk shit about people who go out on parties, drink, smoke weed, like popular music artists, facebook, twitter w/e.
People like that are so boring, closed-minded and shallow. They hate the world and everything in it besides their Japanese anime's & games or nerdy shit in general.
They're closed off & rejecting of others because they feel no one would understand them, make fun if them, and/or reject them. When its really the best opposites. THEY'RE the ones who decided to immediately think that way about everyone not like them.
People really don't care or mind their interests. They'd be glad to gave a nerdy friend or two.
This is why I hate nerds/nerd culture.
Most of my friends nowadays aren't that into any nerdy stuff (or not as much as me anyway). That includes both online & offline (IRL) friends.
They're some of the most closed minded, self-entitled, bratty, uninteresting and rudest group of people I've ever met.
I'm so glad I got out of that. (And now I'm those people they talked shit about. lmao it feels better though)

Sorry I kinda went off on a rant.
I just hate nerd culture so much.


I think you might find this interesting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udarBlE07N4

This guy is real. I need more guys to watch like Jim & him.
I'm gonna subscribe.
Posted 7/13/15 , edited 7/13/15

pandrasb wrote:


anzn wrote:

Edited some mistakes:
I used to be the same way.
I was such a little anti-social atheist/nihilistic weirdo who hated literally everyone outside of the internet and my Japanese anime's & video games.
I only listened to video game & anime osts as well.
I would talk shit about people who go out on parties, drink, smoke weed, like popular music artists, facebook, twitter w/e.
People like that are so boring, closed-minded and shallow. They hate the world and everything in it besides their Japanese anime's & games or nerdy shit in general.
They're closed off & rejecting of others because they feel no one would understand them, make fun if them, and/or reject them. When its really the opposite.
THEYRE the ones who decided to immediately think that way about everyone not like them. Then reject them from their interests alone.
People really don't care or mind their interests. They'd be glad to have a nerdy friend or two actually.

Most of my friends nowadays aren't that into any nerdy stuff (or not as much as me anyway). That includes both online & offline (IRL) friends.
They're some of the most closed minded, self-entitled, bratty, uninteresting and rudest group of people I've ever met.
I'm so glad I got out of that. (And now I'm those people they talked shit about. lmao it feels better though)

Sorry I kinda went off on a rant.
I just hate nerd culture so much.


sorry this kinda struck me as funny since you on CR and what not. Nothing wrong with hating nerd culture and being on CR at the same time, just funny.

only peeps I make fun of since, straight edge

I don't have that internet mentality. Where things are either the best or worst thing ever and its absolutely perfect/flawless or just plain trash literally me or no one else should enjoy.
I'm not limiting myself to nerdy stuff any longer.
I can still like nerdy stuff, I just need to realize what's bad/wrong about it & not try to deny that and defend it just because I like it.
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