First  Prev  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  10  11  12  13  14  Next  Last
Post Reply What are your thoughts on traditional feminism? Modern feminism?
22665 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
24 / M / USA
Online
Posted 8/12/15 , edited 8/13/15
I think it's a good time to make this thread. Probably will divert the subject from seeping into other threads anyway. Remember to behave lovelies!

So there's been plenty of conversation on modern feminism (umbrella term for third wave feminism and radical feminism), but what about traditional feminism for instance? There are other variations of feminism, certainly, but let's focus on the difference here as I certainly advocate traditional feminism myself. Yay!

Traditional feminism advocates gender equality (that includes transsexuals!), while that sounds the same as modern feminism, it's actually not. Modern feminism has shifted more towards the belief that men and women are the same, not just equal.

The modern feminist belief that men and women are the same, not just equal, is what creates the 50% arguments. 'The situation is only object of sexism if nearly all statistics are 50% across the board, for nearly everything. If it is not 50%, then there is a factor, created by misogyny, that has created the statistic to be otherwise.' More likely, men will be blamed for it, whether historically or presently, for the difference. This is also the reason that some modern feminists strive to take down any barriers of difference like the 'free the nipple' movement.

The traditional feminist belief is that there may be misogyny at play, but it is also understood that women and men are different. They may have different priorities, interests, or trends than that of men. It is understood that women and men are inherently different in more ways than one although equally capable and their traditional or nontraditional roles of equal worth.

Modern feminism also can be pretty exclusive, even among women, as it certainly advocates a pro choice stance and women with career drive. This often leaves many women opposed to labeling themselves feminists, as doing so goes against their religious beliefs, traditional values or other personal convictions.

Traditional feminism does not advocate pro life or pro choice. It does not advocate traditional values over nontraditional values. It does not impose theism over atheism or vice versa. It is not exclusive in that respect.

Of course let's not forget that modern feminism also claims the existence of a patriarchy even with the US society. This means they claim all women are victim to a systematic form of oppression.

This is not true for traditional feminism. Oppression is defined by the so claimed victim.

This is not to say they are full of difference, traditional feminism, like modern feminism, will advocate women's rights to be free of violence, discrimination, censorship and various other forms of well known and legitimate prejudice. Both also desire to knock down paths for equal recognition of capability and potential where unjustified (against exclusion based on gender).

Modern feminism has received a visible and increasing backlash from both men and women. However, what do you think of traditional feminism? Do you feel more people would embrace it given it was more widely known? Perhaps you feel my interpretation of modern feminism is slightly wrong, if so what exactly? Do you favor another form of feminism?

Discuss!
22992 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
52 / M / Bay Area
Offline
Posted 8/12/15
Release the Crakken!
22665 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
24 / M / USA
Online
Posted 8/12/15

scoobydew wrote:

Release the Crakken!
]


You know it!



1853 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
23 / M / Bolton, England
Offline
Posted 8/12/15
Feminazis.

Equalism >
20786 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
23 / M
Offline
Posted 8/12/15
I will behave, that being said.
I think the term "feminism" is quite contradictory to the idea of equality in its own right, but I suppose getting into semantics can be considered being anal about it.

I'm a man myself, so it's difficult for me to comment on the matter to its full extend, because I never experienced the harrasment that many women deal with based on nothing more than the fact that they were born with an extra X Chromosome.
This however doesn't really change that I can't help but feel that this "movement" going on around the world, is utterly self-desctructive since you guys (sorry for pointing fingers) can't seem to agree on the matter.

A single movement would make a difference, but this half-measure, mix of ignorant determination and those whom may be educated on the matter, will not lead anything anywhere.
The solution may not exist at all, because at the end of the day, there's a reason for why we have gender roles, and trying to abolish them, is going against our very nature, and to that I say; good luck with that.

Now I know this might come off as condescending, but let me get something straight.
I believe women should have the same rights as men, simple as that.

When you try to tamper with metaphorical values, it gets a whole lot more complicated, and that's another conflicting matter between the educated and the ignorant in this movement. There needs to be a solidified end-game, and as long as you keep changing with the wind and pick a new target seemingly every month (again, please, I'm not pointing fingers at anyone specific here) you will never get anywhere.

This is just my opinion, I will respect if you disagree with me.
6293 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
M / *echo sound effec...
Offline
Posted 8/12/15
Traditional feminism got more done compared to modern feminism... I'm just wondering what has been accomplished by the third wave of feminism... Can anyone answer that question for me? I only see people talk about issues on equality on social media, but I haven't seen any change on a political level.
13141 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
24 / M
Offline
Posted 8/12/15
I am not entirely educated on the history of feminism, but I think that it was a noble goal, even if it often used less than ideal means. On paper, the goal has always been equality for women and back in the early days of feminism, this certainly seems like something that could actually do some good, so extremism was more tolerable. I am of the mind that the ends do not justify the means in most cases, but again, I am no expert on the earlier days of feminism. Its just less appalling to see extremists looking to get the legal right to vote, than extremists looking to make women in media less sexy.

And that is the problem with modern feminism in many ways. While the times have changed and women have every legal right that males have, feminism has not changed to reflect this. Instead, feminists now fight with extreme voracity over the mundane, and often use wrong or misleading statistics to make their point of view seem more rational. These misleading statistics have been used to enact change, and often simply obscure the problem or lead towards the wrong conclusion. It feels like feminists want to keep the movement going, despite passing the point where it was actually needed some time ago.

This modern feminism has harmful consequences that can be seen all over the place and in some ways it is quite frightening. While modern feminism is so much about power, feminists (and adjacent SJW communities) still hold a tremendous amount of power when it comes to the media and social issues. They have the power to shape narratives away from reality and propagandize to demonize their enemies and they have the power to often be the only voice in a discussion in which the other side has plenty to say.

Because of that, I feel the need to speak out against arguments or depictions that do not represent reality because it seems as if many people, both feminists and non-feminists, do not know the other side of that discussion or the mountains of research and statistics backing it. They just here the repeated rhetoric and assume it to be the truth.

I guess what I am saying is that my experiences with modern feminism have showed me a movement which does far more harm than good despite being allowed to dominate discussions involving social issues, so any chance to speak out about it and show people the other side should be embraced.
22665 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
24 / M / USA
Online
Posted 8/12/15 , edited 8/12/15

Bearbudah wrote:

I will behave, that being said.
I think the term "feminism" is quite contradictory to the idea of equality in its own right, but I suppose getting into semantics can be considered being anal about it.

I'm a man myself, so it's difficult for me to comment on the matter to its full extend, because I never experienced the harrasment that many women deal with based on nothing more than the fact that they were born with an extra X Chromosome.
This however doesn't really change that I can't help but feel that this "movement" going on around the world, is utterly self-desctructive since you guys (sorry for pointing fingers) can't seem to agree on the matter.

A single movement would make a difference, but this half-measure, mix of ignorant determination and those whom may be educated on the matter, will not lead anything anywhere.
The solution may not exist at all, because at the end of the day, there's a reason for why we have gender roles, and trying to abolish them, is going against our very nature, and to that I say; good luck with that.

Now I know this might come off as condescending, but let me get something straight.
I believe women should have the same rights as men, simple as that.

When you try to tamper with metaphorical values, it gets a whole lot more complicated, and that's another conflicting matter between the educated and the ignorant in this movement. There needs to be a solidified end-game, and as long as you keep changing with the wind and pick a new target seemingly every month (again, please, I'm not pointing fingers at anyone specific here) you will never get anywhere.

This is just my opinion, I will respect if you disagree with me.


Feminism is very confused in this day and age, and the backlash of modern feminism has not only split women, but even feminism itself. It has led to the creation of meninism and increasing backlash from issues femnism used to never stand for before.

I don't disagree that feminism is a little contradictory to the idea of equality, but I believe the label is historically accurate to the original problems and many which still face many other nations (specifically 3rd world countries). Though, I certainly believe that traditional feminism advocates gender equality for everyone, not just women and women solely as we are not the sole owners of gender disparities and issue.
218 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Offline
Posted 8/12/15
Are you trying to talk about subjects like women don't go into high risk jobs by droves, or that the belief that the reason women don't go into high risk jobs is completely men's fault. I've always found it strange that it seems that the "modern feminism" movement is mostly women that seem to believe that their lack of movement in "safe" office jobs is to be blamed completely on men. But seem to refuse even going into the dangerous job market. The women in my family seemed to be more of the "traditional" kind. Some of them were really rough and tough. Like starting and finishing brawls in bars while being the county commissioner type. They knew that if you wanted to do a rough job, you had the pack the gear to do it, not make sure the specs for the job were lowered so that you could get into the job to do it poorly.

What some of these people don't understand is there is a high failure rate for anyone going into these jobs, men and women. And it's not based on anything over than the fact that the job is rough, and people can't do it, no matter the gender. My company is having a good year, we are only at a 190% turnover rate. Do you think they care about your gender?
41705 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
F
Offline
Posted 8/12/15
Modern radical feminism is a cancer.
22665 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
24 / M / USA
Online
Posted 8/12/15

RK_1234 wrote:

Are you trying to talk about subjects like women don't go into high risk jobs by droves, or that the belief that the reason women don't go into high risk jobs is completely men's fault. I've always found it strange that it seems that the "modern feminism" movement is mostly women that seem to believe that their lack of movement in "safe" office jobs is to be blamed completely on men. But seem to refuse even going into the dangerous job market. The women in my family seemed to be more of the "traditional" kind. Some of them were really rough and tough. Like starting and finishing brawls in bars while being the county commissioner type. They knew that if you wanted to do a rough job, you had the pack the gear to do it, not make sure the specs for the job were lowered so that you could get into the job to do it poorly.

What some of these people don't understand is there is a high failure rate for anyone going into these jobs, men and women. And it's not based on anything over than the fact that the job is rough, and people can't do it, no matter the gender. My company is having a good year, we are only at a 190% turnover rate. Do you think they care about your gender?


Blaming men for the difference in the lack of sameness would generally be your modern feminist. Traditional feminism understands men and women are different, and well, typically women don't want those jobs. No surprise there really. It's not to say none do though! Certainly not! Women are capable if they choose to do so. However, it's probably a much smaller percentage than men, and that's okay.
7425 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
48 / M / New England, USA
Offline
Posted 8/12/15
I'm not sure about the word Feminism these days being anything like it was during my childhood. Feminism used to mean "gender equality", now many people see it as "gender superiority" (the fact that women are better than men and most men are inherently evil or trash). I once had a woman I held a door open for call me a pig and tell me her arms aren't broken. The funny fact is I held that same door open for the man walking through it right before her. Sometimes manners are just manners and not an evil plot to subjugate an entire gender of people. Should I have just let the door go to hit that woman in the face instead of holding it? Whether man or woman I wouldn't have.
218 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Offline
Posted 8/12/15

PrinceJudar wrote:


RK_1234 wrote:

Are you trying to talk about subjects like women don't go into high risk jobs by droves, or that the belief that the reason women don't go into high risk jobs is completely men's fault. I've always found it strange that it seems that the "modern feminism" movement is mostly women that seem to believe that their lack of movement in "safe" office jobs is to be blamed completely on men. But seem to refuse even going into the dangerous job market. The women in my family seemed to be more of the "traditional" kind. Some of them were really rough and tough. Like starting and finishing brawls in bars while being the county commissioner type. They knew that if you wanted to do a rough job, you had the pack the gear to do it, not make sure the specs for the job were lowered so that you could get into the job to do it poorly.

What some of these people don't understand is there is a high failure rate for anyone going into these jobs, men and women. And it's not based on anything over than the fact that the job is rough, and people can't do it, no matter the gender. My company is having a good year, we are only at a 190% turnover rate. Do you think they care about your gender?


Blaming men for the difference in the lack of sameness would generally be your modern feminist. Traditional feminism understands men and women are different, and well, typically women don't want those jobs. No surprise there really. It's not to say none do though! Certainly not! Women are capable if they choose to do so. However, it's probably a much smaller percentage than men, and that's okay.


One thing that most women complain about that has always made me laugh about is "cat-calling" Most of the women that I deal with in most of the rougher trades that I've been in have always called men pet names. Sugar, Suge, Love, Hun, Darling, etc etc, and some are rather hands on. Touching the backs of your hands, arms etc etc. If a woman gets really cat called on a site, I haven't seen it, not union so it's mostly elbows and assholes, but one thing most people don't know is people do whistle for audible commands on site.

Not saying that it doesn't happen, I'm just saying that it's also a two way street, and if you hear two short one long it isn't for you.
32336 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
24 / M / St.Louis - USA
Offline
Posted 8/12/15 , edited 8/15/15
I'm all for equal rights feminists, but just like with other groups the extremists (women>men) become the enemy that they were fighting against. Which is the plot for a couple anime.
First  Prev  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  10  11  12  13  14  Next  Last
You must be logged in to post.