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Post Reply What are your thoughts on traditional feminism? Modern feminism?
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Posted 8/12/15
Egalitarianism > Modern day Feminism

One time, I saw these girls holding a lot of bags, so I decided to hold the door for them, and then they yelled at me saying "We don't need a man like you to open the door for us. We're perfectly capable of doing it ourselves."

It's stuff like that that made me dislike modern feminism as much as I do.

I don't have a problem with traditional feminism, though.
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Posted 8/12/15 , edited 8/12/15
This chart will help:

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Posted 8/12/15 , edited 8/12/15

geauxtigers1989 wrote:

What defines "modern" feminism?


It's essentially third wave feminism or radical feminism. It is the feminism most commonly accounted for in the US of today. Modern feminism is marked by its desire to dismantle barriers of difference between males and females.


BloodNGuts wrote:

Egalitarianism > Modern day Feminism

One time, I saw these girls holding a lot of bags, so I decided to hold the door for them, and then they yelled at me saying "We don't need a man like you to open the door for us. We're perfectly capable of doing it ourselves."

It's stuff like that that made me dislike modern feminism as much as I do.

I don't have a problem with traditional feminism, though.



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Posted 8/12/15

PrinceJudar wrote:
Yeah there's been a much deserved backlash from it. You'd think some of the backlash coming from women would wake them up. You're right they're attempting to prolong their spotlight, and often in order to do so is by calling upon mundane issues or statistics void of accounting for variability. Most women are now complacent in today's society (US) and reject modern feminism for its folly and often appalling means of approach.

Traditional feminism is a lot more, ah, satisfied. Although I will say not entirely, but only as much as any general issue. The problem is that complacency also means that women that would identify as a traditional feminist, have lesser of a reason to advocate in their general and complacent lives. Less activity, less power and much less voice. The loud voice of modern feminism is a minority of females, certainly although visibly seeming otherwise.

Modern feminism has certainly done some harm, and these next years will be a backlash of it, to men and women.

It's discussion like these that are certainly more positive so far though! It's not like traditional feminism creates rifts. Feminism was meant to seal rifts by working together.


While I understand that these modern feminists are a minority and that a large chunk of people distance themselves from modern feminism, it is still surprising how much they (or their talking points) dominate so many conversations on social issues. Its not simply that these are a minority of people on the internet, they also have large influence on the media and universities to the extent where a minority is being allowed to dominate the conversation.

I think that is why you have so many people who may not be "feminists" who are still opposed to the groups portrayed as the "enemies of feminism", and think those groups are misogynists or rape apologists or what have you. What this means is that while "modern feminists" may only be a small group of people, the ideas and positions of modern feminism are a lot more widespread.

Also, I am surprised to see how civil this conversation has been. I think part of that has to do with what I mentioned above. While its easy for people to distance themselves from the modern feminist label, discussions surrounding the talking points tend to be a lot more divisive (as demonstrated by the previous threads relating to feminism) although this might just have to do with the users involved in the discussion...
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Posted 8/12/15
Traditional Feminism.
-Nods-
Cuz it makes more sense!
But whatever I think people should be able to have the choice to have either, and we shouldn't force our opinions on each other and respect that others may have a different view on it.
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Posted 8/12/15 , edited 8/12/15

sundin13 wrote:

While I understand that these modern feminists are a minority and that a large chunk of people distance themselves from modern feminism, it is still surprising how much they (or their talking points) dominate so many conversations on social issues. Its not simply that these are a minority of people on the internet, they also have large influence on the media and universities to the extent where a minority is being allowed to dominate the conversation.

I think that is why you have so many people who may not be "feminists" who are still opposed to the groups portrayed as the "enemies of feminism", and think those groups are misogynists or rape apologists or what have you. What this means is that while "modern feminists" may only be a small group of people, the ideas and positions of modern feminism are a lot more widespread.

Also, I am surprised to see how civil this conversation has been. I think part of that has to do with what I mentioned above. While its easy for people to distance themselves from the modern feminist label, discussions surrounding the talking points tend to be a lot more divisive (as demonstrated by the previous threads relating to feminism) although this might just have to do with the users involved in the discussion...


It's not at all surprising to me, it is commonplace for there to be a loud vocal minority. Media has always been fixated on 'sensationalism'. They do not hand a microphone to a quiet mother of three, they hand the microphone to a woman that has a lot to say and looks pissed the fuck off. They hand the microphone to someone who is most likely to say something controversial. Something for people to Google and rage between each other about. It's profitable but not positive. Modern feminism is more widespread because they are unsatisfied and upset, as opposed to a woman generally complacent in today's society.

One who has much to complain about is often much louder than one who only remains pleased.

However, there is a shift due to the backlash of modern feminism. Women that used to be quiet are starting to get vocal in opposition now as they become increasingly displeased with modern feminism. It is up to modern feminists to reclaim some of their listening skills and tone down before their movement drowns underneath the anger it has sown in its overextended reaching.

Yeah the thread is doing okay as long as someone doesn't stuff cotton in their ears. It's an individual issue and can occur from either side. Hah!


jakari wrote:

Traditional Feminism.
-Nods-
Cuz it makes more sense!
But whatever I think people should be able to have the choice to have either, and we shouldn't force our opinions on each other and respect that others may have a different view on it.


Yay!

Of course. Listening is a part of the process.

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Posted 8/12/15
I think my Sociology teacher actually said modern feminist seek to have an advantage over men now. As opposed to traditional wanting an equal standing with us. Though I cannot confirm this if this is true.
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Posted 8/12/15

descloud wrote:

I think my Sociology teacher actually said modern feminist seek to have an advantage over men now. As opposed to traditional wanting an equal standing with us. Though I cannot confirm this if this is true.


It is true for some, but I wouldn't say for all modern feminists.

Often it is the frustration of not having the 'sameness' of men that makes it out to be such. For example they may fight to have the same amount of graduates in the STEM fields, but forget to fight in order to have the same amount of female construction workers. Due to this, they are indirectly fighting for superiority in a manner. Most of the time, it's not the intention, but a misguided aim.

Some do intentionally, but I'll say most modern feminists don't intentionally.
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Posted 8/12/15
Traditional Feminism vs. Modern Feminism aint really a thing. If were talking feminism of the past I will say that I appreciate the work they did to get were we are know I really cannot get behind some of second wave feminism given how exclusionary it was too trans women and sex workers. 3rd Wave feminism has been much kinder to these groups of women.
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Posted 8/12/15

PrinceJudar wrote:


descloud wrote:

I think my Sociology teacher actually said modern feminist seek to have an advantage over men now. As opposed to traditional wanting an equal standing with us. Though I cannot confirm this if this is true.


It is true for some, but I wouldn't say for all modern feminists.

Often it is the frustration of not having the 'sameness' of men that makes it out to be such. For example they may fight to have the same amount of graduates in the STEM fields, but forget to fight in order to have the same amount of female construction workers. Due to this, they are indirectly fighting for superiority in a manner. Most of the time, it's not the intention, but a misguided aim.

Some do intentionally, but I'll say most modern feminists don't intentionally.


Ah I see, that actually makes sense when you put it that way.

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Posted 8/12/15



I am not too surprised that this thread is peaceful! You said it yourself... it amazed you how loud the vocal minority can be. I haven't seen the vocal minority yet .

Also, a lot of this is the fact that drama pays. The louder you are, the more recognition you get and the more money you make. I can think of a certain Modern Day Feminist who has made almost $500,000 if not more and only did about 1/3 of what was promised. I begin to wonder where the equal rights start and where the money starts.

A bit more on topic. While the vocal minority is just that... a minority... 100 people yelling will out-voice 10000 people whispering. That is just an undeniable fact of life. If the non-vocal majority got off their (our) arses, I am sure a lot of this would be cleared up! I have tried to make a splash when I was foolish. I stopped for now when my personal information and address got onto reddit. Decided it was time to hang up my coat!
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Posted 8/12/15 , edited 8/12/15
Radical feminism seems to be just hot air right now. Lots of talk, but very little action.
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Posted 8/12/15 , edited 8/12/15

LONGNAMEYOUWONTMISS wrote:

This chart will help:



Thats an incredibly reductive view of the 2nd and 3rd wave feminism.

Also its kinda funny you got that image from Rational Wiki given that the caption below that image reads

How antifeminists see feminism. (Note that antifeminists of the time always saw the current "wave" as evil, much as current antifeminists see current feminism as evil.)


Source
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Feminism
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Posted 8/12/15
My exposure to third-wave feminism has been very positive. I tend to agree with most of the issues brought up by third-wave feminists, and most of the people I talk to in the real world about these issues bring up really valid arguments and about societal change and social pressures. My favourite content producers tend to be feminists, people like Tina Fey, Aziz Ansari, Linkara, Mike from Idea Channel, Amy Poehler and so forth, and the views and opinions they put forth are ones that I can strongly agree and identify with.

I guess what I'm trying to say is I'm kinda biased in this regard. I have not had a negative interaction with a feminist before. I've never had anyone insult me for trying to hold open a door, or insult me based purely on my gender. Most of the time, I hear rhetoric about these things happening, instead of witnessing them myself.

But I think the biggest reason I became a feminist and why I think it is so important to have, is because more than anything else, I identify as a gamer. And that is, quite possibly, one of the worst environments for women of any background to be in, in first world countries. I don't like that discrimination based on gender is so prevalent in that culture, or in any other culture that anyone finds themselves in. Which I beleive is the driving purpose behind third-wave feminism.


And because I love this video so much, here is an Idea Channel video talking about what feminism is, and about BMO from adventure time!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqtNSdDFGBM
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Posted 8/12/15

megahobbit wrote:

Traditional Feminism vs. Modern Feminism aint really a thing. If were talking feminism of the past I will say that I appreciate the work they did to get were we are know I really cannot get behind some of second wave feminism given how exclusionary it was too trans women and sex workers. 3rd Wave feminism has been much kinder to these groups of women.


Traditional feminism does not mean exactly second wave feminism. It has the original purpose of the second wave, but it is not beyond change. Advocating for gender equality should include all types, and that includes transsexuals.

If we cannot treat other genders equally, it is hypocritical to ask of others.
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