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Abe: Japan Will Apologize No More
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Posted 8/16/15

dotsforlife wrote:


nanikore2 wrote:

There is ZERO excuse in revising history textbooks in Japan.

www.nytimes.com/2007/04/01/world/asia/01japan.html


While we're at it, why don't all countries display their actual history? I'm sure many of our fellow Americans would love to be enlightened on many events we don't share. Every country tries to paint itself in a good light. Doesn't make it right obviously, but it's not surprising.


Please raise specific examples, because that's a very cavalier statement.
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Posted 8/16/15

megahobbit wrote:


dotsforlife wrote:


megahobbit

Except there is no text in the books.
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-21226068


Probably not in Japans books. Luckily, Japan isn't the only one with books these days.


...Thats not an excuse for not teaching and acknowledging this stuff.


Might want to tell every country that then. They all paint themselves in a good light and tailor their history to their liking. Japan is no different than the rest of us.
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Posted 8/16/15 , edited 8/16/15

nanikore2 wrote:


dotsforlife wrote:


nanikore2 wrote:

There is ZERO excuse in revising history textbooks in Japan.

www.nytimes.com/2007/04/01/world/asia/01japan.html


While we're at it, why don't all countries display their actual history? I'm sure many of our fellow Americans would love to be enlightened on many events we don't share. Every country tries to paint itself in a good light. Doesn't make it right obviously, but it's not surprising.


Please raise specific examples, because that's a very cavalier statement.


Look them up yourself. I'm not doing the work for you. It's foolish to think everything you were taught in school is how it all went down. You don't think details or certain events weren't left out in many wars? Or some just flat out omitted? Why do you think a lot of shit these days doesn't come to light until someone probes?
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Posted 8/16/15

dotsforlife wrote:
Might want to tell every country that then. They all paint themselves in a good light and tailor their history to their liking. Japan is no different than the rest of us.



Dark_Alma wrote:
When I was in school at Germany, they taught WW2 history in scary detail. They did it better than the USA ever did with theirs (I only had the names of the planes that dropped the atomic bombs and the bombs themselves, never once did they admit that was genocide in its own right). I learned of many things about WW2 that are not even commonly taught in the USA about the Nazis.

^

Japan should follow Germany and actually acknowledge what happened.
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Posted 8/16/15

dotsforlife wrote:

Might want to tell every country that then. They all paint themselves in a good light and tailor their history to their liking. Japan is no different than the rest of us.


Sorry man thats just not true. Germany openly admits and teaches about the Holocaust. School teaches about the Trail of Tears and the other various injustices the US has committed. Its even worse if Japan doesn't teach such stuff given how tense the situation over there is with Korea and China. Im all for teaching more of the injustices the US has committed at school but Japan teaches NONE of what it has done and the Leader of the country PUBLICLY DENIES IT. Thats not comparable dude. Thats like Obama going up and saying "hey remember the Trail of Tears that didnt happen and while where at it were gonna cut all the stuff about the destruction of Native Americans out of the History books"
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Posted 8/16/15 , edited 8/16/15

nanikore2 wrote:


dotsforlife wrote:


nanikore2 wrote:

There is ZERO excuse in revising history textbooks in Japan.

www.nytimes.com/2007/04/01/world/asia/01japan.html


While we're at it, why don't all countries display their actual history? I'm sure many of our fellow Americans would love to be enlightened on many events we don't share. Every country tries to paint itself in a good light. Doesn't make it right obviously, but it's not surprising.


Please raise specific examples, because that's a very cavalier statement.


Not commonly taught but pretty fucked up
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKUltra
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covert_United_States_foreign_regime_change_actions

Another major one is the CIAs use of torture in the Middle East.
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Posted 8/16/15

megahobbit wrote:


dotsforlife wrote:

Might want to tell every country that then. They all paint themselves in a good light and tailor their history to their liking. Japan is no different than the rest of us.


Sorry man thats just not true. Germany openly admits and teaches about the Holocaust. School teaches about the Trail of Tears and the other various injustices the US has committed. Its even worse if Japan doesn't teach such stuff given how tense the situation over there is with Korea and China. Im all for teaching more of the injustices the US has committed at school but Japan teaches NONE of what it has done and the Leader of the country PUBLICLY DENIES IT. Thats not comparable dude. Thats like Obama going up and saying "hey remember the Trail of Tears that didnt happen and while where at it were gonna cut all the stuff about the destruction of Native Americans out of the History books"


Germany does a fine job with their history teachings. I'll pass on being delusional enough to think that they're an exception to omitting details though. Japan certainly likes to be stubborn about this, but no country can really talk when they've done it themselves. The degree makes no difference. We're all guilty of it. Denying or omitting is basically the same thing. You're keeping certain knowledge hidden from others. Different means, same results.
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Posted 8/16/15

dotsforlife wrote:

Germany does a fine job with their history teachings. I'll pass on being delusional enough to think that they're an exception to omitting details though. Japan certainly likes to be stubborn about this, but no country can really talk when they've done it themselves. The degree makes no difference. We're all guilty of it. Denying or omitting is basically the same thing. You're keeping certain knowledge hidden from others. Different means, same results.


You cant sit around and say "Everybody does it" thats not an excuse for not doing it ESPECIALLY given the tensions over there. Degree does matter greatly to. Have you read about what they did over there. Forced Labor, Sexual Slavery, Unit 730, Mass Killing of Civilians. That needs to be taught and acknowledged.
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Posted 8/16/15 , edited 8/16/15

megahobbit wrote:


dotsforlife wrote:

Germany does a fine job with their history teachings. I'll pass on being delusional enough to think that they're an exception to omitting details though. Japan certainly likes to be stubborn about this, but no country can really talk when they've done it themselves. The degree makes no difference. We're all guilty of it. Denying or omitting is basically the same thing. You're keeping certain knowledge hidden from others. Different means, same results.


You cant sit around and say "Everybody does it" thats not an excuse for not doing it ESPECIALLY given the tensions over there. Degree does matter greatly to. Have you read about what they did over there. Forced Labor, Sexual Slavery, Unit 730, Mass Killing of Civilians. That needs to be taught and acknowledged.


Not making excuses for anyone. I'm saying Japan isn't the only one here that needs to stop the bs. They need to get their house in order just like everyone else.

Just remember, people who want to point a finger at someone have more pointing at themselves.

I don't think anyone here disagrees with you that it needs to be taught. I just take issue with people acting like hypocrites when none of our countries are any better.
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Posted 8/16/15 , edited 8/17/15

dotsforlife wrote:

Not making excuses for anyone. I'm saying Japan isn't the only one here that needs to stop the bs. They need to get their house in order just like everyone else.

Just remember, people who want to point a finger at someone have more pointing at themselves.

I don't think anyone here disagrees with you that it needs to be taught. I just take issue with people acting like hypocrites when none of our countries are any better.


Okay I can accept that but in my defense you kinda changed your argument midway through.
Sogno- 
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Posted 8/16/15
hmm did you know about the military unit made of Japanese Americans in WWII who were sent to an island in the Gulf Coast and were made to be bait for hunting dogs so the dogs could learn to 'sniff out' the Japanese? Let's also not forget Japanese concentration camps... while they were no Nazi concentration camps, they weren't flowers and rainbows either.

i'm just saying every country has crimes it doesn't want to dwell on, Japan is no worse than the rest of us.

As far as who should apologize, well, whatever -- i personally don't apologize for things I have nothing to do with, but whatever makes you sleep at night.
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Posted 8/16/15 , edited 8/16/15

Sogno- wrote:

hmm did you know about the military unit made of Japanese Americans in WWII who were sent to an island in the Gulf Coast and were made to be bait for hunting dogs so the dogs could learn to 'sniff out' the Japanese? Let's also not forget Japanese concentration camps... while they were no Nazi concentration camps, they weren't flowers and rainbows either.

i'm just saying every country has crimes it doesn't want to dwell on, Japan is no worse than the rest of us.

As far as who should apologize, well, whatever -- i personally don't apologize for things I have nothing to do with, but whatever makes you sleep at night.


The US has acknowledged, has given reparations for, and educates on the internment of Japanese citizens in camps and while that doesn't absolve us for what we did it is better than nothing. The Japanese government has done none of these things for there war crimes. I for one think we should dwell on our past and learn from it.
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Posted 8/16/15
Every nation needs to teach the truth about the wars they were in. The USA white washes a lot of stuff. They talk about the White House getting burned down in high school US history and fail to mention the part where we invaded first and vandalized and burned plenty of York (Toronto today). Several nations have a habit of sugar coating their wars. The US and Japan both have a habit of it. You don't need to continually apologize for the past sure, but to say that when you seem to be actively trying to rewrite history to a version where you didn't even do the things being discussed is crappy.
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Rabbit Horse
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Posted 8/16/15
straw man arguments here, there, everywhere!
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Posted 8/16/15

dotsforlife wrote:

Look them up yourself. I'm not doing the work for you. It's foolish to think everything you were taught in school is how it all went down. You don't think details or certain events weren't left out in many wars? Or some just flat out omitted? Why do you think a lot of shit these days doesn't come to light until someone probes?


Then why bother demand Japan acknowledge the Nanking Massacre? After all, the students can all just "look it up".
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