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Post Reply Important issues of racism and sexism being tackled again!
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Posted 8/20/15
Man Im gonna study hard so I dont fail Mr. Dabossmans spelling test.

Literally its 2:50 in the morning and I have to wake up at six. Fuck my life.
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Posted 8/20/15
There hasn't been any real quality racism since like MLK's time. Same goes for these "sexist" people, perhaps even before.

Everything else now is just media propaganda.
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Posted 8/21/15

descloud wrote:

There hasn't been any real quality racism since like MLK's time. Same goes for these "sexist" people, perhaps even before.

Everything else now is just media propaganda.


I would offer some snarky comeback but Its 3:25 I have to wake up at 6:00 and I have come to the realization that this forum distracts me too much.
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Posted 8/21/15

megahobbit wrote:


descloud wrote:

There hasn't been any real quality racism since like MLK's time. Same goes for these "sexist" people, perhaps even before.

Everything else now is just media propaganda.


I would offer some snarky comeback but Its 3:25 I have to wake up at 6:00 and I have come to the realization that this forum distracts me too much.


Feel free to express your opinion about why I am wrong if you are still awake to read this.
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Posted 8/21/15

megahobbit wrote:


sundin13 wrote:

1. Whether or not I care about Metacritic personally is irrelevant
3. The point is that its supposed to be comprehensive to satisfy more than just one person... Again, the story can be spoken about and interpretations of the story may be gone into, but ignoring other key elements of a game does not make a good review.
4. I disagree whole-heartedly. See the review at the end of my other post.... That is an objectively terrible review because it did nothing to tell the reader about the game or allow them to assume any level of personal enjoyment.
5. I think I explained my point was explained pretty well after that one sentence. Did you just ignore the rest of it? Do you really think that Super Mario World is about interpretation and not mechanics? The point is that games are much more of a mechanical beast than an interpretive beast, and there really are only a few games which fall more on the interpretive side, but even still, ignoring the mechanics would be doing a disservice to the game.

Take for example, Everyone's Gone to Rapture. It is a game that is pretty much solely about the telling of a story, however, the mechanics are very important. A review which doesn't say anything about the walk speed (which is one of the main criticisms of the game) and the way the environments are designed would be a pretty shitty review.

7. You are combining the ideas of critique and reviews, which are not really the same thing. Here is a quote from the University of Vermont:

"Film criticism is the study, interpretation, and evaluation of a film and its place in cinema history. Film criticism usually offers interpretation of its meaning, analysis of its structure and style, judgement of its worth by comparison with other films, and an estimation of its likely effect on viewers. Film theory (e.g., feminist, postmodernist, etc.) often informs the critical analysis of a film. Criticism may examine a particular film, or may look at a group of films in the same genre, or a director's or actor's body of work.

Film criticism differs from movie reviews in several ways: it entails both analysis and judgement; it may be published many years after a film is released; it is usually longer and more complex than a movie review. A movie review documents the critical reception of a film at its time of theatrical or dvd release. It is more "consumer-oriented," placing more emphasis on recommendation than analysis."

Critique is more akin to the idea of commentary I was speaking about earlier, while reviews are consumer-oriented. Again, I have nothing against critique, however, that does not mean a good critique makes a good review as they have different ends and therefore should employ different means.

8. The idea that there is no semblance of an objective measure of quality in basically anything, be it art or reviews, is something that we will have disagreements about until death. However, reviews are made for the consumers to educate the consumers, therefore, it simply stands to reason that a review that does not suit that end is a poor review. A review that is non-comprehensive, highly personal and highly bias does not meet that end and is therefore poor.


1. Fuck Metacritic and for my moneys worth I find someone supports a movement standing for "ethics in games journalism" but thinks journalists shouldnt speak there mind in case of harming a games metacritic score hypocritical.
3. No such thing as an objectively good review 8. has my explanation.
5. I dealt with you other paragraph in point six.
6. Sorry dude hers the deal a review of that game that doesnt mention walk speed would not be stupid. If its such a problem to a reviewer they can comment on it but If a reviewer doesnt care about it. Thats a personal opinion. I played dear esther which people bitched about the walkspeed and I didnt see a problem with it at all. You ask me to review the game right know I would probably not mention it.
7. This is literally an argument of technicality know. We agree on it but I say its a review and you dont. Arguing over technicalities like this is pointless.
8. I disagree once again given that personal bias is inescapable and pointless to try and deliver. "consumers" are not these unbiased machines ready for enjoyment themselves. They have there own likes, dislikes and hang-ups. What may seem like nitpicking to you could mean the world to someone else. The idea of an objective critic is stupid but the idea of a objective consumer is even dumber. Thats what I said before its what YOU want in a review which is perfectly fine. I dont really care at what frame rate my game runs at or even how it looks. The reason you cant have objectively good review even going by your terms is that you dont know what the consumer wants to know.


1. Well done misrepresenting my point for the fifth time. Again, I am not saying that there are things that reviewers can't talk about, just that there are things that reviewers need to talk about and a general goal of reviews. Honestly, I've said that a review should be comprehensive about 100 times now, and you are somehow still missing the point.

6. This point about walking speed was specific to Everybody's Gone to Rapture, not games in general. With Rapture, you have a fairly simple game and the main way you are interacting with the world is just by walking around it. It is a pretty big world, but my goodness do you move slowly, and beyond that, the run mechanics are extremely strange to the extent that the game does a terrible job at communicating that it is even possible with the consumer.

Now feel free to say that you enjoyed the contemplative pace, but in a review, you should tell the reader about the pace of the game and the mechanics of the main interaction with the world. It would be like reviewing a fighting game without discussing the fighting mechanics. In a walking simulator game, you should talk about the core mechanic of the game and how the character moves. That is simply being a good reviewer.

8. Again, it is not objectivity itself that is the important part, it is striving for objectivity. Of course no one can be completely objective, but when reviewing a game, a huge part of your job is being able to look past yourself and see the bigger picture. You should look at all the ways the mechanics interact and all of the ways you interact with the world and make a decision about the game's quality beyond yourself. You are encouraged to speak about all of the different aspects, but speak about it in an objective and open way. This means that if you are discussing a fighting game with a complicated and precise combo system as a fighting game veteran, you should not only say that you loved the combo system and that it was amazing and tight, but mention that it is highly precise and has extremely difficult hit confirms, so people without much experience with fighting games should probably look elsewhere.

As for your consumer comments, the point is that your goal isn't to satisfy one particular consumer but cover a breadth of consumers. In my fighting game example, the review makes a point to satisfy not only consumers who have a lot of experience in the genre but also consumers who would be new to the genre. This is why a good review is comprehensive. To do a better job at satisfying more consumers.
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Posted 8/21/15 , edited 8/21/15





Okay, I think you've gone far enough from the main topic and over very similar ground enough times, that it's time to stop. I imagine you both might benefit from being relieved of some perceived obligation to just keep replying.
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