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Post Reply Televangelists
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22 / M / Arizona
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Posted 8/23/15
So John Olier recently held a segment on televangelists and their practice of "seeding"
Basically they tell you that by donating money to them you are planting a seed that later, you will be able to harvest for great reward.
After the show the IRS was pressured to investigate the televangelists in question.
http://uproxx.com/tv/2015/08/last-week-tonight-irs-televangelists/

What are your thoughts on this practice and Televangelism as a whole?


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M / Earth
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Posted 8/23/15
Exploiting the stupidity of humans.
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27 / M
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Posted 8/23/15

Irishsushi wrote:

So John Olier recently held a segment on televangelists and their practice of "seeding"
Basically they tell you that by donating money to them you are planting a seed that later, you will be able to harvest for great reward.
After the show the IRS was pressured to investigate the televangelists in question.
http://uproxx.com/tv/2015/08/last-week-tonight-irs-televangelists/

What are your thoughts on this practice and Televangelism as a whole?




Well you can write-off donations come tax time, not to mention tithing is part of Abrahamic religions. People who don't get out of their house to go to church may find televangelists convenient and thus, tithe to them versus a local, smaller church. It's pretty simple actually.
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22 / M
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Posted 8/23/15 , edited 8/23/15
How can you people deny the miracles?? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rP2MDtWu5t0

Now for seriues paying for a miracle is not going to solve your problems, people have to learn that, Life is not pay to win.
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18 / M / The Mothership
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Posted 8/23/15 , edited 8/23/15
Church people are dangerous and if they actually took the time to read the bible it says that people who add or take away from the gospel will suffer consequences but they won't learn and I'm a guy who truly believes in God and these "Prophets of God" are no more than crooks and scammers sending tithes doesn't require this either. And what're these people actually learning by whoever just going over 1 or 2 scriptures like I said these people for non-religious folks are crooks and scammers and for people who believe in God these people are devils and false prophets who wants to help nobody but themselves in the end. "Seeders" are you joking?
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F / San Francisco
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Posted 8/23/15
Why anyone still sends money to televangelists after the Jim Bakker/ Tammy Faye Bakker fiasco is beyond me.

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19 / M / Future Gadget Lab...
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Posted 8/23/15

Irishsushi wrote:

So John Olier recently held a segment on televangelists and their practice of "seeding"
Basically they tell you that by donating money to them you are planting a seed that later, you will be able to harvest for great reward.
After the show the IRS was pressured to investigate the televangelists in question.
http://uproxx.com/tv/2015/08/last-week-tonight-irs-televangelists/

What are your thoughts on this practice and Televangelism as a whole?




It's religion in its most pathetic, capitalistic version. Televangelists take out the beauty that can exists in religious practices, ceremonies, and in any kind of spiritual thought and display only the greed, the hate, and the mob mentality.

Furthermore, as argued in the book "Amusing Ourselves to Death", Neil Postman points out how televangelists fail to get their religious messages across due to the need to sensationalize the show; people want to be entertained, the cable channel wants to keep its show's ratings high, and as a result nothing is taken as seriously as it should be. How can someone feel spiritual or religious when a commercial cuts off the show or when some cheeky guest comes on to spout about how they "saw the light" rather than, I don't know, an actual service?

Hell, I'm not religious and I like the mockery of religion, but what's the point if the mockery isn't intelligent or even funny?
Posted 8/23/15
I... don't even know what that is
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27 / M
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Posted 8/23/15 , edited 8/23/15
You may want to read this actually.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/peterjreilly/2015/08/23/john-oliver-should-not-blame-irs-for-televangelist-tax-abuse/


Edward Zelinsky of Yeshiva University has written quite a bit about the problems that taxation creates in regard to church state issues under our First Amendment, which they don’t have where John Oliver grew up.

Like many John Oliver skits, this spoof, while amusing, raises serious issues. To identify three of these: First, the IRS does not write the Internal Revenue Code. Congress does and the American people elect Congress. To minimize church-state entanglement, Congress has constrained the IRS’s ability to audit churches. Mr. Oliver criticizes this low audit rate without explaining who is responsible for it, namely, Congress.

Second, a minister’s personal use of a church-owned plane is taxable income, just as a corporate executive’s personal use of a company plane is taxable income. More generally, churches pay more taxes than many people believe. For example, ministers pay self-employment taxes while churches pay FICA taxes on the salaries of their nonclerical employees. In most states, churches are subject to sales tax, either as buyers or sellers and sometimes in both capacities.

Finally, the legal issue of defining a church involves serious trade-offs. We could define “church” more restrictively to crack down on the kind of schemes Mr. Oliver so effectively satirizes. However, a narrower definition of a “church” could also be used against nonconformist and unconventional religions–which at times in our country’s history could have included abolitionist churches, the Catholic Church, the Church of Latter Day Saints and other now mainstream organizations. For that reason, as a society, we generally seek to minimize church-state entanglement even though the resulting zone of religious autonomy can be exploited by the kind of ministers Mr. Oliver so effectively satirizes

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18 / M / The Mothership
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Posted 8/23/15

Nightblade370 wrote:


Irishsushi wrote:

So John Olier recently held a segment on televangelists and their practice of "seeding"
Basically they tell you that by donating money to them you are planting a seed that later, you will be able to harvest for great reward.
After the show the IRS was pressured to investigate the televangelists in question.
http://uproxx.com/tv/2015/08/last-week-tonight-irs-televangelists/

What are your thoughts on this practice and Televangelism as a whole?




It's religion in its most pathetic, capitalistic version. Televangelists take out the beauty that can exists in religious practices, ceremonies, and in any kind of spiritual thought and display only the greed, the hate, and the mob mentality.

Furthermore, as argued in the book "Amusing Ourselves to Death", Neil Postman points out how televangelists fail to get their religious messages across due to the need to sensationalize the show; people want to be entertained, the cable channel wants to keep its show's ratings high, and as a result nothing is taken as seriously as it should be. How can someone feel spiritual or religious when a commercial cuts off the show or when some cheeky guest comes on to spout about how they "saw the light" rather than, I don't know, an actual service?

Hell, I'm not religious and I like the mockery of religion, but what's the point if the mockery isn't intelligent or even funny?

In some aspects I agree with you like for once I would like for a church to actually hold a service instead of a spectacle because like I said these people don't actually love God for if they did they would know God hides himself from foolishness and stupidness like the church world and I would rather sit in the woods than a mega church if it meant actually learning something about God.
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26 / M / Waterloo, Ontario
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Posted 8/23/15

LONGNAMEYOUWONTMISS wrote:

Exploiting the stupidity of humans.


Exactly. Remember what Mark Twain once said, "it is easier to fool people than make people realize that they've been fooled".

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It doesn't matter.
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Posted 8/23/15 , edited 8/23/15
This is my fav comment:
Holodigm
"CBS is clickbaiting the public. Read between the lines – at no point does the article mention where this pressure is coming from. That’s because the pressure is coming from John Oliver. All that article does is basically report on this clip’s existence, get a couple quotes, and inflate the headline with some drama.

In other words John Oliver does a piece on televangelists, CBS does an article saying John Oliver does a piece on televangelists, and now I’m reading an article saying CBS did an article saying John Oliver did a piece on televangelists. I’m very in favor of taxing the shit out of them, but this “pressure” is a mirage. "


and now we can add one more to the spiral.
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22 / M / Arizona
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Posted 8/23/15

MysticGon wrote:

You may want to read this actually.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/peterjreilly/2015/08/23/john-oliver-should-not-blame-irs-for-televangelist-tax-abuse/


Edward Zelinsky of Yeshiva University has written quite a bit about the problems that taxation creates in regard to church state issues under our First Amendment, which they don’t have where John Oliver grew up.

Like many John Oliver skits, this spoof, while amusing, raises serious issues. To identify three of these: First, the IRS does not write the Internal Revenue Code. Congress does and the American people elect Congress. To minimize church-state entanglement, Congress has constrained the IRS’s ability to audit churches. Mr. Oliver criticizes this low audit rate without explaining who is responsible for it, namely, Congress.

Second, a minister’s personal use of a church-owned plane is taxable income, just as a corporate executive’s personal use of a company plane is taxable income. More generally, churches pay more taxes than many people believe. For example, ministers pay self-employment taxes while churches pay FICA taxes on the salaries of their nonclerical employees. In most states, churches are subject to sales tax, either as buyers or sellers and sometimes in both capacities.

Finally, the legal issue of defining a church involves serious trade-offs. We could define “church” more restrictively to crack down on the kind of schemes Mr. Oliver so effectively satirizes. However, a narrower definition of a “church” could also be used against nonconformist and unconventional religions–which at times in our country’s history could have included abolitionist churches, the Catholic Church, the Church of Latter Day Saints and other now mainstream organizations. For that reason, as a society, we generally seek to minimize church-state entanglement even though the resulting zone of religious autonomy can be exploited by the kind of ministers Mr. Oliver so effectively satirizes



I don't blame the IRS, If that's the law then that's the law I understand that. I blame the people who prey on the vulnerable. Its gross people use religion as a way to make money.
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Posted 8/23/15 , edited 8/23/15

Akage-chan wrote:

Why anyone still sends money to televangelists after the Jim Bakker/ Tammy Faye Bakker fiasco is beyond me.


Actually (aside from the fact that the ministry went bankrupt and Tammy's currently dead), you might want to take a quick rent of Fenton Bailey's documentary "The Eyes of Tammy Faye"--
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0233687/
Even though it was clearly made for a gay-tinged audience that liked her as a pop-culture misogynist icon (she always believed it was because they were one of the only televangelists on the air not treating AIDS as God's punishment), it does offer a bit revealing look at the hungry-hyena machinations of several TV ministries all trying to Outreach each other by any means necessary.

Chief being, most ministries want a satellite, because, like Fox News, owning your own broadcast network means you can be free of nasty ol' sponsor regulations on "Fair and balanced content", and can pretty much say what you want.
And a lot of ministries that DID want to say what they wanted needed a satellite hookup first. As they tell it, Jim & Tammy wandered into the business from a local church-puppetry TV show, hoping to be the "happy" Donny & Marie of TV ministries, and were in for a few big ugly surprises.
Like, when Jerry Falwell, who didn't have a satellite, promised to "protect" them from IRS investigations after the bankruptcy and scandal first hit.


Nightblade370 wrote:

Furthermore, as argued in the book "Amusing Ourselves to Death", Neil Postman points out how televangelists fail to get their religious messages across due to the need to sensationalize the show;


Although, keep in mind, Postman's book is time-capsule rooted in the mid-80's (Americans glued to TV soaps and sitcoms! Right-wing action movies! An actor as president!), it's also a time-capsule of way back when we actually had televangelists anywhere but their own satellite splinter channels on the back-numbers of cable.

Nowadays, it's just various Southern ministries trying to tilt at trendy windmills that are "competing" with them for "media attention" (Harry Potter is evil! Pokemon is evil! Disney supports deviant lifestyles!) because they need to shelter parents into sheltering their kids from more interesting distractions that would make unrealistic dogma less appealing.
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21 / M / Massachusetts
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Posted 8/23/15
Money changers in the temple. revolting.
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