First  Prev  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  10  11  12  13  14  Next  Last
Post Reply US Gun Control
16598 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
21 / M / NC
Offline
Posted 8/28/15

gvblackmoon wrote:


A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.


The simple solution no really this is it.

Based on a reading of the Second amendment you will note it states a well regulated militia. This is for two reason first the founders didn't want a standing army and second it was easier for the states to control this at the time. So let's go back to that.

All persons upon reaching the age of 18 who wish to own a firearm will be sworn into the state militia at which point in time they will be subject to a background check and be required by law to provide either a trigger lock or a gun safe for their weapon. If they do not wish to do this storage will be provided by the state.

They will be require once every three months to muster for weapons inspections to confirm that they are compiling with the law and are in shape to perform their sworn duties.

They will be required every six months to muster and qualify with their firearm.

During times of crisis they will be called upon to provide aid and protection to the citizens of their state.

During times of war as declared by congress they will provide for the defense of the nation.

These weapons maybe used for hunting during time posted by their states.

You want to own a firearm do you civic duty and serve the state and the nation. Yes militias are designed to serve the state not your own personal desire to thumb your nose at the government. So that would fix the problem right there since the Court has already state we can regulate firearms.

Oh to own a firearm and not be part of the militia would be a gross misdemeanor and punishable with six months in prison.

Also the whole "but gun laws wont stop gun crime" this is a specious argument no law stops 100% of the crime that it is intended to stop it is there so that if the crime is committed you have the means by which to punish the person committing the crime. With your logic we should do away with all laws that deal with crime since none of them actually stop the crime if someone is really going to do it.


Gonna use a wonderful picture I stole from VZ68
5115 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Offline
Posted 8/28/15
You'd have to restrict semi-automatics too. It's rather easy to change the firing pin and booom, you got yourself a fully automatic machine gun. The reason being is most semi-automatic rifles have a fully automatic counterpart.

Also, in regard to gun control, this is my philosophy. A lot of these "gun related crimes," at least the ones we see on the news are premeditated. If that's the case, let me let you in on a secret. As long as you can buy ammo from a Walmart, it's not difficult to make your own gun.

I don't disagree with your ideas, in fact I think it's valid. But if some retard wants to go shoot up a McDonald's then I'll be damned, he's gonna do it. Regardless of whether or not you make it easy for him. Also, the black market is very much real. Do not underestimate that. Again, if you REALLLY want that fully automatic rifle, you can get it. At least in 'Murica.
22653 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
24 / M / USA
Offline
Posted 8/28/15

NPolonski wrote:

You'd have to restrict semi-automatics too. It's rather easy to change the firing pin and booom, you got yourself a fully automatic machine gun. The reason being is most semi-automatic rifles have a fully automatic counterpart.

Also, in regard to gun control, this is my philosophy. A lot of these "gun related crimes," at least the ones we see on the news are premeditated. If that's the case, let me let you in on a secret. As long as you can buy ammo from a Walmart, it's not difficult to make your own gun.

I don't disagree with your ideas, in fact I think it's valid. But if some retard wants to go shoot up a McDonald's then I'll be damned, he's gonna do it. Regardless of whether or not you make it easy for him. Also, the black market is very much real. Do not underestimate that. Again, if you REALLLY want that fully automatic rifle, you can get it. At least in 'Murica.


Pretty sure it's illegal to modify a semi automatic into a fully automatic without the proper licensing.

I agree those who wish to kill as they do will find a way. Guns or not.
13139 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
24 / M
Offline
Posted 8/28/15 , edited 8/28/15

J-POP187 wrote:
People who go through the trouble of getting a concealed carry are generally good people look at the stats for TX. I would encourage everyone to look up the stats for their states.

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/RSD/CHL/Reports/ConvictionRatesReport2013.pdf
http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/RSD/CHL/Reports/ConvictionRatesReport2012.pdf


Since May 2007, at least 757 people in 568 incidents have been killed by individuals exercising concealed carry (their is no comprehensive database, so these numbers were acquired from news reports and required reporting in some states). This includes 29 mass shootings and 17 law enforcement officer deaths.

(Source: http://concealedcarrykillers.org/ )

Overall, the rate of crime within these populations tends to be lower than the general public and additionally, it is worth noting that some of these crimes would have likely been committed regardless of concealed carry, so with that information available, I really don't know how I feel about the idea of concealed carry. I guess I believe that concealed carry gives people something to turn to when they lose their temper, so it is difficult for me to support it.
22653 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
24 / M / USA
Offline
Posted 8/28/15 , edited 8/28/15

sundin13 wrote:

Since May 2007, at least 757 people in 568 incidents have been killed by individuals exercising concealed carry (their is no comprehensive database, so these numbers were acquired from news reports and required reporting in some states). This includes 29 mass shootings and 17 law enforcement officer deaths.

(Source: http://concealedcarrykillers.org/ )

Overall, the rate of crime within these populations tends to be lower than the general public and additionally, it is worth noting that some of these crimes would have likely been committed regardless of concealed carry, so with that information available, I really don't know how I feel about the idea of concealed carry. I guess I believe that concealed carry gives people something to turn to when they lose their temper, so it is difficult for me to support it.



In the vast majority of the 568 incidents documented (481, or 85 percent), the concealed carry permit holder either committed suicide (222), has already been convicted (196), perpetrated a murder-suicide (46), or was killed in the incident (17). Of the 67 cases still pending, the majority (57) of concealed carry killers have been charged with criminal homicide, four were deemed incompetent to stand trial, and six incidents are still under investigation. An additional 20 incidents were fatal unintentional shootings involving the gun of the concealed handgun permit holder.


Worth noting a good chunk of those were suicide which has no correlation to gun ownership. So quite smaller than even that. I prefer to leave suicide on its own category.
19 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
28 / M
Offline
Posted 8/28/15 , edited 8/28/15
I'm not a gun person but if the government has access to automatics, then shouldn't also the people. Just saying if the government is suppose to fear the people, how is that possible when the people bring a pistol to an automatic gun fight. Also of all the shooting/shooting deaths that takes place every year, how many are done by just a pistol, I'd assume it was most.

The other problem about the whole mental illness argument is, what will be considered not mentally well enough to purchase a gun/own a gun and who would you trust to decide that. Also that could lead to people not getting help when they need it, bc they are afraid of losing their gun/guns.

Tough issue


21448 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
46 / M / Between yesterday...
Offline
Posted 8/28/15

Why yes I am having a well balance breakfast right now though this has little to do with what I put forward this solution solves the problem it follows the letter of the Constitution and allows for personal ownership of firearms but it comes with the requirement you actually be part of the state militia. Which if you read the Constitution of each states are the ones that actually control the militias in their states.

Now if you wish to see what the guys that wrote the Constitution were thinking here it is since it still exist in the Virgina state Constitution since they wrote that one as well. A little history goes a long way when it comes to figuring out what the founders wanted.



SEC. 13. That a well-regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the proper, natural, and safe defense of a free State; that standing armies, in time of peace, should be avoided, as dangerous to liberty; and that in all cases the military should be under strict subordination to, and governed by, the civil power.


So don't whine about it the Courts as I stated have said firearms can be regulated just like speech can be regulated. We just need to agree on a means by which this is done. What I laid out does this cleanly and makes it so that if you don't own a firearm you don't have to be part of the militia if you do guess what man up and do your duty for God and country.
13139 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
24 / M
Offline
Posted 8/28/15

PrinceJudar wrote:

Worth noting a good chunk of those were suicide which has no correlation to gun ownership. So quite smaller than even that. I prefer to leave suicide on its own category.


Yes, although the number of homicides is still quite high. Seems to be about 500 non-suicide deaths and again, that only includes information that was made public (and even still, the fact that suicides are occurring at these rates in individuals with concealed carry permits implies that perhaps the regulations should be stricter, but that is purely conjecture).

Again, I'm not entirely sure how I feel about it, but it does seem to do more harm than good..
22653 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
24 / M / USA
Offline
Posted 8/28/15 , edited 8/28/15

onetimechoker wrote:

I'm not a gun person but if the government has access to automatics, then shouldn't also the people. If government is suppose to fear the people, how is that possible when the people bring a pistol to an automatic gun fight. Also of all the shooting/shooting death that takes place every year, how many are done by just a pistol, I'd assume it was most.

The other problem about the whole mental illness argument is, what will be considered not mentally well enough to purchase a gun/own a gun and who would you trust to decide that. Also that could lead to people not getting help when they need it, bc they are afraid of losing their gun/guns.

Tough issue




Because we have a lot more guns than they do.

You're right most are carried out with a hand gun.

Avoiding professional help to keep a clean record....hmm that would be problematic. You'd almost need an evaluation beforehand that requires feedback from other persons. That be tricky...
27705 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
27 / M / TX
Offline
Posted 8/28/15

sundin13 wrote:


J-POP187 wrote:
People who go through the trouble of getting a concealed carry are generally good people look at the stats for TX. I would encourage everyone to look up the stats for their states.

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/RSD/CHL/Reports/ConvictionRatesReport2013.pdf
http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/RSD/CHL/Reports/ConvictionRatesReport2012.pdf


Since May 2007, at least 757 people in 568 incidents have been killed by individuals exercising concealed carry (their is no comprehensive database, so these numbers were acquired from news reports and required reporting in some states). This includes 29 mass shootings and 17 law enforcement officer deaths.

(Source: http://concealedcarrykillers.org/ )

Overall, the rate of crime within these populations tends to be lower than the general public and additionally, it is worth noting that some of these crimes would have likely been committed regardless of concealed carry, so with that information available, I really don't know how I feel about the idea of concealed carry. I guess I believe that concealed carry gives people something to turn to when they lose their temper, so it is difficult for me to support it.


Honestly the way I see it, is the number is quite low compared to the hundred's of thousands or even millions pf people who have a concealed carry. I could see why you would feel that way but for me just like with anything some people will abuse the responsibility of owning a gun. If we go by the number of people who die in drunk vehicle accidents that number is in the thousands but we don't see politicians calling for bans on all cars. While some people are hot headed and anything could be used if they wanted to kill an other person. Whether it be a gun or a brick.
http://www.cdc.gov/motorvehiclesafety/impaired_driving/impaired-drv_factsheet.html

From the CDC


Just curious do you know anyone who went through with getting a concealed carry? Most people I speak with who are against guns don't even know what laws are already on the books. The main problem I see is more people calling on passing more laws but what laws do they want that are not already on the books. I'm fine with toughing up sentences and punishments for people who break the laws.
22653 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
24 / M / USA
Offline
Posted 8/28/15 , edited 8/28/15

sundin13 wrote:

Yes, although the number of homicides is still quite high. Seems to be about 500 non-suicide deaths and again, that only includes information that was made public (and even still, the fact that suicides are occurring at these rates in individuals with concealed carry permits implies that perhaps the regulations should be stricter, but that is purely conjecture).

Again, I'm not entirely sure how I feel about it, but it does seem to do more harm than good..


True. I'm still on board for better enforcement.

Though suicide rates are more of an independent issue, obviously using a gun is a little more effective than drugs and such. You also have to recognize the veteran population in gun ownership. There's evidence that suggests it may increase suicide rates in adolescents, but less compelling evidence in adults. Though it's been well documented that the difference is more of an effective means of death rather than change of rates in suicide attempts.

Suicide can be impulsive, guns are quicker and if they're readily available, easier. Though I wouldn't be surprised if a new effective suicide method came into play without guns around.
16598 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
21 / M / NC
Offline
Posted 8/28/15 , edited 8/28/15

gvblackmoon wrote:


Well, there comes another disagrence i have. I do not beleive free speech should be regulated either. I do understand what you are saying, but my interpretation of the second amendment states that the people have the right to bear arms, militia or not. I'm typing on my POS phone and dont feel like attemlting copy and paste, but i could bring in some Jefferson, Madison, Hamilton, and a man who's name escapes me that all say ALL men have the fundamental right to bear arms period (as in no service required) and that their idea of the militia was every able bodied man not enlisted in regular military service, there forr we are all the militia.
27705 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
27 / M / TX
Offline
Posted 8/28/15 , edited 8/28/15

gvblackmoon
What I laid out does this cleanly and makes it so that if you don't own a firearm you don't have to be part of the militia if you do guess what man up and do your duty for God and country.


So you would be up for forcing people into service just on the bases of gun ownership. The military of the US is already made up of volunteers so in your words just because someone owns a gun you would be fine with forcing them into combat roles. I know plenty of pacifists than own a gun simply for sport but by your reasoning simply owning a gun should force them into service while the ones that don't don't have to go.

In a realistic terms any president that tried flying that way would be thrown out of office.
13290 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
28 / Death ✭
Offline
Posted 8/28/15 , edited 8/28/15

Dark_Alma wrote:


Also, I agree, stricter background checks. It is too damn easy to get a gun at this point. I could take a class, get a license within a week then go to the nearest elementary school and make a name for myself. I don't like how easy to do that is.



I agree. I own a firearm. The process that I went through when I made my purchase was simple and quick. I went into the gun shop and selected the gun that I wanted. The woman who helped me make my purchase allowed me to inspect the firearm first, it was fine. She then asked me for my information, drivers license info, social security number, etc. I waited while this other gentleman made a quick 6min phone call, after that I had to fill out and sign a document or two and that was it.


I was out the door with my brand new GLOCK 19 in less than 20min.

That was my experience. I'm sure not every purchase is that simple, and it will vary depending on the individual that's buying the firearm and also the state that the person is located in. Some states have whats called a waiting period.

I will add that a buddy of mine also purchased a gun and his experience was similar.


PrinceJudar wrote:

I agree those who wish to kill as they do will find a way. Guns or not.



^^This^^.

13139 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
24 / M
Offline
Posted 8/28/15

J-POP187 wrote:
Honestly the way I see it, is the number is quite low compared to the hundred's of thousands or even millions pf people who have a concealed carry. I could see why you would feel that way but for me just like with anything some people will abuse the responsibility of owning a gun. If we go by the number of people who die in drunk vehicle accidents that number is in the thousands but we don't see politicians calling for bans on all cars. While some people are hot headed and anything could be used if they wanted to kill an other person. Whether it be a gun or a brick.
http://www.cdc.gov/motorvehiclesafety/impaired_driving/impaired-drv_factsheet.html

From the CDC


Just curious do you know anyone who went through with getting a concealed carry? Most people I speak with who are against guns don't even know what laws are already on the books. The main problem I see is more people calling on passing more laws but what laws do they want that are not already on the books. I'm fine with toughing up sentences and punishments for people who break the laws.


I tend to look at it through the lens of risk/reward. What I mean by that is that there is very little upside to concealed carry that I see and when weighed against the downside, I struggle to find it to be worthwhile. Vehicles on the other hand are essentially necessary for the daily life of most individuals.

I also don't know anyone personally who has a concealed carry license, but I do know that they are not easy to get.


PrinceJudar wrote:

True. I'm still on board for better enforcement.

Though suicide rates are more of an independent issue, obviously using a gun is a little more effective than drugs and such. You also have to recognize the veteran population in gun ownership. There's evidence that suggests it may increase suicide rates in adolescents, but less compelling evidence in adults. Though it's been well documented that the difference is more of an effective means of death rather than change of rates in suicide attempts.

Suicide can be impulsive, guns are quicker and if they're readily available, easier. Though I wouldn't be surprised if a new effective suicide method came into play without guns around.


While suicide is an independent issue, I wonder if there is a correlation between suicidal thoughts and impulses and homicidal thoughts and impulses. While this is again largely conjecture because the research that I have found relating the two seems to be fairly shaky, it does seem that a history of depression at least plays a factor in murder-suicide cases. That was the point I was sort of trying to get at. If someone is mentally unstable enough to commit suicide, I think that implies flaws in our systems of detecting individuals who are mentally unstable (although it isn't possible for such systems to be perfect).
First  Prev  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  10  11  12  13  14  Next  Last
You must be logged in to post.