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Post Reply September 1 and teen suicide in Japan
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Posted 9/1/15

lambofgenesis wrote:
You should be a bit more empathetic to people who commit suicide over internet bullying. I've read on the news about the MySpace and ask.fm suicides. Teen girls are really impressionable and have low-self esteems (teen guys too I guess, but not as bad as teen girls). So like, they're putting themselves out on the internet, and trolls go ahead and DDOS-question them about stuff, they answer sincerely, only to be shot down by them again and again, and they get more desperate, and looking for acceptance and trying to raise their self-esteem, but the trolls are trolls and feed off of their distress, and in the end, they just kill themselves.

It's not really about beign smart or mature enough to turn off the computer. It's just, they're put in this emotional state and everyone who's experienced emotions knows how they can make you do irrational things -_-.

If I could have more empathy, I would. Unfortunately I don't really have much control over that as far as I am aware. I was going to say a bunch of other stuff but I've gone into self reflection so I'll leave it at that for now and one other side note. Suicide is a thing with both genders. It's not an "I guess" kind of thing.
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Posted 9/1/15 , edited 9/2/15
I had a high school teacher that had spent some time teaching in Japan.

She never really talked about bullying. Then again, back then, bullying wasn't the Big Red Button topic it currently seems to be. She might have mentioned that standing out / being different from those around you wasn't necessarily a smart move in Japan. (Which doesn't directly tie into bullying, but my own observations indicate that most bullies go for people who don't seem like they have good/large social network to support them, or who don't look like they can - and will - fight back in an effective manner.)

She did mention the fact that the suicide rate was much higher in Japan, including among kids who hadn't even graduated high school yet. She stated (if my memory hasn't failed me again) that - in her opinion - the biggest / worse reason for the high suicide rates was the (constant) pressure the students she saw were under.

Do you want end up with a good job? (With the implication that it'll help you have a good life, if you have a good job, and only stupid and/or lazy people don't want one.) Then you need to graduate from a (good) university, with good marks. And to get into that (good) university, you need to graduate from a (good) high school, with good marks. And if you want to get into a (good) high school in Japan, you need to have good marks in your earlier grades.

There's only two problems with this set of equations. The first is that every other student in Japan also knows all of this. The second is that there's only so many students accepted in any particular year at those (good) universities, or even at those (good) high schools you (and your parents, and your uncles/aunts, and grandparents, ect...) feel you need to get into, if you want to be able to get the job you (think) you want.

So (nearly, because some people don't care or have just given up already) everyone studies really hard in school. And (nearly) everyone worries constantly about their test results. And (nearly) everyone worries that even though they've got a 90 percent average for the year, that they won't be in the top ten of their class for year. And even if you managed to make do this year, you know you'll probably have to work at least as hard - and, more likely than not, even harder - next year. Because there's no consolation prizes if you don't make to the group that will be allowed the chance to advance to the next level, and single mistake could affect the rest of your life.

You're running the Red Queen's race, running faster and faster just to stay in place. You're a rat that's running forward forever, on a wheel welded to the side of your cage.

And if you stumble, trip and fall?

Maybe you just have to deal with a life that doesn't turn out the way you wanted it to go. With the not so vague feeling that you might have been someone if you'd been smarter, and worked harder. Like waves oh so slowly eating away at the face of a cliff day after day, for the rest of your life.

Maybe you become a shut-in. Someone who, unless they figure out a way to actually work from their room/apartment/home, will have to rely on others for the rest of their life.

Or maybe you just decide to end it all.

...

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to try to either relax or find something that will cheer me up.
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Posted 9/1/15
Oh my
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Posted 9/1/15 , edited 9/2/15

maxy0 wrote:

kids dont know any betteer. they are dumb and full of hormones and do things like that because it's part of human nature. eventually societal pressures manage to stomp that fire out, but weak things typically get picked on because they allow it, and it's fun and entertaining for everyone involved to abuse weak people. in grade schools, the concept of morals and conscience isn't so deeply ingrained yet, so everyone has a good time abusing the weakling. it's unfortunate, and nobody deserves to be treated like that, but its simply how humans operate at an age where right and wrong isnt so clearly defined. humans are animals too, and this is what animals like to do.
Animals kill to survive. They don't abuse other animals to see reactions for entertainment. When humans do that it is not because it is natural, or because it's fun but because many of them live in a sick environment.

People abuse the weak because know they won't face any consequences. Teachers, counselors and staff (even parents) won't do much about it despite what they tell you. This causes and enabled the behavior.
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Posted 9/1/15 , edited 9/1/15

FlyinDumpling wrote:


maxy0 wrote:

kids dont know any betteer. they are dumb and full of hormones and do things like that because it's part of human nature. eventually societal pressures manage to stomp that fire out, but weak things typically get picked on because they allow it, and it's fun and entertaining for everyone involved to abuse weak people. in grade schools, the concept of morals and conscience isn't so deeply ingrained yet, so everyone has a good time abusing the weakling. it's unfortunate, and nobody deserves to be treated like that, but its simply how humans operate at an age where right and wrong isnt so clearly defined. humans are animals too, and this is what animals like to do.
Animals kill to survive. They don't abuse other animals to see reactions for entertainment. When humans do that it is not because it is natural, or because it's fun but because many of them live in a sick environment.

People abuse the weak because know they won't face any consequences. Teachers, counselors and staff (even parents) won't do much about it despite what they tell you. This causes and enabled the behavior.


they frequently do, and among primates this is especially widespread (surprise the closest relative to humans). when a high ranking monkey sees what he thinks is a smaller, weaker monkey attempting to subvert his position in the hierarchy, he abuses and attacks him. this is amusing to the other monkeys because they want to associate with the monkey who appears to be the dominant force.

this is similar to humans in the sense that the bully sees a guy making good grades, or skilled at a musical instrument or something, this enrages the bully (who is typically unskilled and realizes this) who then uses his large size to his advantage and attacks the weaker guy and his troupe of monkeys laughs hysterically along with him.

if the target is sufficiently docile and doesn't present himself as a threat (i.e the mentally retarded) the bully simply ignores it and moves on.
Posted 9/2/15

i live by this quote whenever someone ''cyber bullies''
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Posted 9/2/15 , edited 9/2/15

Tehnery wrote:

Its such a distubitng thought that someone was bullied so much too a point where suicide was the answer for escape I never been bullied well once online but it was nothing but my dad has but pretty badly too



I was bullied online pretty bad and it still gave me thoughts. I was unsettled at the time for other reasons, though.
I was also bullied brutally in middle school, though.
It's torture. They didn't even treat me like I was human. They openly dehumanized me, called me male or an it, kicked me into things, verbally assaulted me until I was crying, left physical bruises on me. I got punished for retaliating against the people who were hurting me, I wrote terrible things detailing how I'd kill them in story form as a coping mechanism and got sent to in school suspension for it, it was extreme, but it was the way of dealing with my feelings. School systems everywhere are crappy when it comes to dealing with bullying and bullies. I imagine Japan is no exception to the rule. The consular at my middle school blamed me for my problems and told me that I was weak and that I would never be able to healthily deal with them unless I became stronger, instead of trying to offer any advice or report to the staff the things I told her about them bullying me. And my peers often stood by as witnesses to this as well, some petrified out of fear. None of them spoke a word though, especially the ones that the bullies considered to be lesser, but not botherable, out of the fear that if they "snitched", they'd become the next target.

I think by the end of it, a victims mind is so shattered that they often feel they can't go on and face another day of it. That it's more painful to live than to end yourself. That was how I felt. I didn't want to go back to that hell. I was already dealing with issues in my home environment, the last thing I wanted was to face another day of it. The emotional ache is just so strong and painful by the end that you truly feel you have nothing else left. And Japan is even worse than the U.S. when it comes to these types of things. Japan has the concept of "face", and one of thier proverbial sayings is that "it can't be helped". Imagine living in that hell. There comes a breaking point where the torture has psychologically breached all your boundaries and you're ready to plunge out a window to stop it, you don't have any defenses left, you just want it to cease.

Teenagers are abusive and ruthless. Very few of them have filters or censors, their brutality is strong and they're exclusionary. It's in their nature to want to do whatever they can to bolster their own esteem to make the weak submit to them or their group. It is essentially like the governmental theory, the Force theory- that man's nature is brutal and nasty and they desire to put themselves at the top of the food chain and the heirarchy by squandering everyone else underfoot. Teenagers really, really, really, like to abide by that theory, especially early teens, because it feeds their hormonal narcissism. They squish whoever they feel is an inferior specimen. They are the human shoe and their victims are the bug. Early teens can be, and often are peckish, rude, and tasteless. Most of the ones I've seen as an adult now seem so repugnant. Hard to believe that I was once *shudder* that age. Honestly, I was just a more depressed and hated version of my classmates, what I really wanted was to beat my way to the top back then because I was so rife with hormonal imbalance and anger. I just didn't have the power do and was too affected by my preexisting mental issues to actually go through with it.
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Posted 9/2/15

Oh oh my god I'm so sorry I have nothing to say besides in sorry I'm truly am I didn't mean for you to rember so an ugly time in your life...

Yea it's really rough in Japan they have really bad just the other I as reading an actricle and it was sad most Japanese workmen don't get to be with there wife's or even get to be in a serous realtionship because of there work it's really really sad
Posted 9/2/15
If you've ever bullied someone in your life. I'll make you feel what you did to others.
Online cyber bullying isn't a thing to me
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Posted 9/2/15 , edited 9/2/15

Tehnery wrote:


Oh oh my god I'm so sorry I have nothing to say besides in sorry I'm truly am I didn't mean for you to rember so an ugly time in your life...

Yea it's really rough in Japan they have really bad just the other I as reading an actricle and it was sad most Japanese workmen don't get to be with there wife's or even get to be in a serous realtionship because of there work it's really really sad


Japanese society is very work oriented. Poor salaryman slaving thier asses off just to come home and spend little time with their wives and children. Poor kids whose parents slave thier asses off working as well, who come home to empty houses. Japan's concepts are quite dark when you view them from a psychological perspective. To save face is to feign yourself as always being okay, to save face is to not reveal your problems under guise that they might cause conflict. To conceal that is a burden in itself and incredibly grating to most anyone's psyche. The saying that "it can't be helped" is disheartening to everyone there, anyone in any situation, it's so often said that its normalized to hear it there from what i have read, but the truth is that, it can be helped, but Japan as a society doesn't want you to be vulnerable or act like you need help. It's just so warped. And that's why they have such a high suicide rate. They prize keeping thier composure so much that their citizens often suffer in silence under their unwritten laws and codes, and it drives them to take their own lives.

People die all around the world, daily, and suicides do account for a surprisingly big chunk. People will often say that the victim didn't seem so, people will often say that, most who attempt or succeed are the quietest about their problems because they don't want to burden anyone. It's so painful, though. The most pain doesn't lie with the fact that you're just living with what feels like burns on your skin, it's the fact that if you tell anyone, no one seems to listen, and if you bottle it up, then it destroys you. Countries everywhere. Everywhere, mental health just needs to be better researched and understood. There is still a mass stigma attached to suicide. It is a selfish thing, but what I don't think people realize is that we KNOW it's selfish, that we know it's a painful, bad way to go, but also that it is a last resort. Suicidal thoughts are an indicator of much deeper mental upsetedness. That is what people don't fuckin' GET.
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Posted 9/2/15
You know what's terrible about bullies? They don't usually start off as such.
It's a learned behavior. Bullies become bullies, not through any innate means, but by means of someone else bullying them.
Bullies can actually drive others to bully if their influence is strong enough.
It's a viscous little cycle that I try desperately not to repeat. My mom is a bully.
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Posted 9/2/15 , edited 9/2/15

gayrell wrote:


woodygirl97 wrote:


Urboistar wrote:


They're both weak and unworthy of respect. Selfish people that don't care about the world around them, they're taking the easy


Congratulations, I'm glad you were able to overcome being bullied. I'm not being sarcastic; I know from experience how hard that can be.

But for some people, it's not that easy. Not everyone has a friend they can talk to (especially if they're being bullied, go figure). Not everyone has a guidance counselor at school who is equipped to deal with mental health issues. Not everyone has supportive parents, or the money to pay for therapy, etc. Get the idea? So don't act like it's something that everyone can fix by talking to someone.

I'll say it again: If you're seriously considering suicide, you are not thinking the way a mentally healthy person would. You don't need to have clinical depression to be depressed. Fun fact: if left untreated, this can still spiral into clinical depression! And judging by Japan's mental health statistics (only 1-in-4 people seek treatment), I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say you've got a lot of people with disordered thinking. Point is, mental illness isn't a binary, it's a spectrum, so don't even try to say that some people are more justified in their suicide attempts than others. And, just so we're clear, being depressed does not mean you're weak!!!

But in the end, I think the most important point to make is that people's decisions are theirs to make. Not yours. Not their parents' (even when you're a minor, you're still an autonomous being). Not their friends'. I'd argue that it's more selfish to insist that someone who's clearly suffering so much that they believe suicide is the best option continues to live just because you'd miss them if they were gone. If your only justification for calling it selfish is, "it hurts other people," so what? We hurt people all the time (wow, it's almost like we were just talking about this!), so why do we give some things a pass, but not others? By all means, suicide prevention is important, and we absolutely should create awareness for it. If you are contemplating suicide, please, seek help if you're able. If a loved one is acting strangely (for them, not by social standards), talk to them or someone you trust about it. Suicide should only be considered as a last resort, if at all. But the point remains: they are their own persons, and if they're determined to go through with it, they will, no matter what you do to stop them. It's selfish to think you can control other people.


It's funny you say this(not literally) but I was bullied by my best friend at the age 5,6,7 and it was a double team bullying in person and i got punched in the face. I was abused by my mum and step dad so I didn't have supportive parents or friends I overcame it by MYSELF so you can't tell me that these kids can't overcome it too! Worst part was I got mentally sick! And physical (I don't want sympathy or empathy just stating my point) oh and there's more!

What's the point in anti bully campaigns if they just don't use it....kids don't tell their parents so how do they know if they will support them however at my young age we didn't have that at juniors school. I would NEVER commit suicide because it takes some guts to actually kill yourself. So are you saying they should chose to commit suicide?

Kids need to hope on their bike and belt up just like the other guy said! Also I may still be young but that doesn't mean I don't understand what they are going through.

Most importantly I turned out great!
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Posted 9/2/15

PapaGregory wrote:


woodygirl97 wrote:


Urboistar wrote:


gayrell wrote:


Urboistar wrote:

Kids need to toughen up, suicide is for the weak and I will never respect someone like that. I respect bullies even less for picking on the weak to the extent of said victim to take their own life.


How does suicide in any way make someone weak? When you're suicidal, you're not in your right mind. I'm not just saying that figuratively; 90% of people who die by suicide have some sort of mental illness. Many people attempt suicide because they think the world would be better off without them, while others legitimately believe that it's their only way out (e.g "it's gonna be like this until I die, so I might as well just do it now").

Don't you dare call people who attempt suicide weak or unworthy of respect.


They're both weak and unworthy of respect. Selfish people that don't care about the world around them, they're taking the easy way out because they feel they're unnecessary or uncared for. Instead of growing a pair and talking to the right people they just give up, mental illness aside (because I understand at least that much) I very sincerely doubt that 90% of people that commit suicide have a mental illness.



I have to agree with you. I was bullied but I was also strong, so there should be no excuse for someone to selfishly take their life and get no respect out of it. If kids "grow a pair" then we wouldn't have to sit here feeling sorry to you get the point where you hear it too much and you just think "oh, another?".

If you can't survive being bullied what makes you think you can survive in the real world.



So what it not possible that these students haven't been bullied worse then you, don't get me wrong suicide is never the answer and I was also bullied but I have heard stories where the bullying were so harsh and their home life was so bad that it would break a normal psyche.




I was bullied at home and at school at the age of 4,5,6 and 7 etc...this was junior school, secondary school was worse but I dealt with it by MYSELF! I was bullied by best friend with her new best friend in junior school and she punched me....however this stuff doesn't bother me and I won't say too much, you know how people are these days. Teens need to survive if they are going to get anywhere, it just gets worse till the point where you just don't care
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Posted 9/2/15 , edited 9/2/15

Buckerss wrote:


tf2pyros wrote:

Not to be harsh, but bullying is everywhere. You cannot escape it; not even on the internet.


But no one who isn't more sensitive than an exposed toenailess toe with sunburn and cancer kills themselves over strangers on the internet. Sure I'd get it if it were people they knew bullying them on the internet, but then why the heck do they add bullies on facebook and shit?


Doesn't make the bullying ok

Some people are that sensetive and go through right times i know when i was depressed if someone bullied me online i probably would have cut myself.

That being said i nearly commited suicide once in my life and i can say those who commit suicide are not weak even the strongest person can be brought down.

We selfishly keep alive those who don't want to live how fair is that it's selfish not to let someone who wants to die live but at the same time death should be the last choice.

I respect those who commited suicide because they tried there best and not everyone can survive and no one obviously tried to help them or it would never have gotten to that point.

Those who commit suicide are not weak nor are they strong ANYONE can commit suicide and its selfish to stop someone from doing when they have resolved to do it.

but in that being said selfishness is not bad we are a selfish species.
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