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Post Reply Is Ghostwriting Ethical?
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23 / M / AZ
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Posted 9/3/15 , edited 9/3/15
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22 / M / Kabe o koete
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Posted 9/3/15
I see ghostwriting as being ok, as long as the person ghostwriting is credited of course
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27 / M
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Posted 9/3/15

soulzmeister wrote:

I see ghostwriting as being ok, as long as the person ghostwriting is credited of course


Ghostwriting is all about someone in the shadows creating a work that a client can take credit for. If we got credit, the client wouldn't be paying for the service.
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22 / M / Kabe o koete
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Posted 9/3/15

Morbidhanson wrote:


soulzmeister wrote:

I see ghostwriting as being ok, as long as the person ghostwriting is credited of course


Ghostwriting is all about someone in the shadows creating a work that a client can take credit for. If we got credit, the client wouldn't be paying for the service.


im talking in regards to the drake/quentin miller ordeal, i see your point though
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Posted 9/3/15 , edited 9/3/15
If I happen to know one of my classmates have turned in something that they did not write, or not their original idea, I would feel kind of feel cheated as they are not exerting the same effort as I did. But will I do it if I get a chance? Hell yeah, I would want to have better paper to turn in although I wouldn't turn it in word for word. I'll use it as a reference and to get some ideas, as well as better writing techniques/use of vocabs and word choices as I am fairly lacking those. Now will you proofread mine for free? Lol
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Posted 9/3/15
I was a ghost writer for a fairly big rapper for a few years. I got paid well, to me ghost writing is ok.
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It doesn't matter.
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Posted 9/3/15
As long as you submit a copy to unis to provide a reference.
But I don't think much of essays that value quantity over content so I'm biased.
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Posted 9/3/15 , edited 9/3/15
I'm of two minds on this, and the dividing point is whether the services ghostwriters offer defeat the educational objectives of writing assignments.

On the one hand, I'm seeing requirements for people to actually put work into their own projects, with customers being asked to conduct their research independently and prior to invoking the service, develop their own thesis and arguments in support of it, generate and examine whatever data they're supposed to on their own, and so on. MH seems to primarily be a wordsmith, someone who clearly articulates the ideas he is handed and nothing more. He's not doing any of the thinking for his customers, merely the speaking. One might argue that for this reason invocation of MH's services remains true to the spirit of the assignment, that doing so doesn't appreciably damage the lesson it was intended to teach.

On the other hand, one might say the service MH is offering actually defeats one of the objectives of the assignment by removing the need to figure out how to articulate ideas capably. Learning how to do so could be seen as part of the lesson, and educators might argue that the ability to convey one's ideas to a variety of audiences through writing is an essential occupational skill which MH's services prevent his customers from practicing. From this perspective the student lies to their instructor and future employers about their competencies when they receive high marks for writing they didn't actually do.

The counterargument to that perspective is professionals don't necessarily do their own writing anyway, with one team member assuming responsibility for composition of written materials while the rest carry out all the other tasks. The counterargument to that perspective is that the position responsible for composing materials could change hands at any moment, and that the problem of peoples' missing competencies isn't actually resolved merely because someone else might take up the work our person isn't competent in for a while. One might venture further and say that competition is either fulfilled or defeated by these services, with those arguing that it's fulfilled stating that people invoking MH's services were clever enough to know they needed them and devoted their resources accordingly, and those who say that competition is defeated stating that the outcome doesn't actually reflect the winner's own abilities since there's no asterisk indicating that they didn't carry out part of the race themselves.

Around and around we go. Where do we land? I honestly don't know.
reinux 
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Posted 9/3/15 , edited 9/3/15
BTW, The Ghostwriter drama that's airing on Crunchy right now is really good.
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49 / F / Center of the Uni...
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Posted 9/3/15 , edited 9/3/15
In the school setting I think it's unethical. Plagiarism to be exact. If someone else did the work why are you getting the mark?
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Posted 9/3/15
Isn't that true of any ghostwriting?
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27 / M
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Posted 9/3/15 , edited 9/3/15

narutoshippudenwatcher wrote:

Isn't that true of any ghostwriting?


I think it's worse in some way to do it in a school setting. Kids with more money can just pay their way through school and not learn how to write at all. I've seen it happening as early as high school. Although there's nothing inherently wrong at the surface level about buying something you need, it sort of clashes with the purpose of being in school sometimes and you're gaining an edge over others who might be putting more work into the course, especially if the class is graded on a curve. You potentially castrate your own learning potential and affect classmates just for that good letter grade. You also put yourself at risk of being discovered and harshly disciplined.

I feel bad for international students who are in a school without the appropriate level of writing class available to them, though. Some people are simply unable to write, while others are plain lazy and irresponsible.

It's sometimes hard to tell them apart, since each one can bring about the other. Some are unable to write so they keep paying, get lazy, and never learn to. Some are lazy and then keep paying and become unable to catch up later. Although some people have majors that probably won't be causing them to write many essays, I think there is value in mastering the language you speak. It's not my job to force people to agree; my job is to satisfy the demand, so this is just an opinion. I sever ties with the writing once it's out of my hands. I wrote it for you; it is made for you like a custom good. What you do with it is beyond my control. I think of myself as a computer that receives a prompt and spits out a paper. It's simply easier that way. It's not immoral for me to write a paper for you to buy. I cannot be certain what you will do with it. How you use it is up to you and I have given you notice that I don't suggest that you use the papers verbatim. It is possibly immoral for you to go against rules that you know exist by using the paper you bought from me in class without changing it at all.

In business, it's your livelihood. You hire a ghostwriter because you need that service in order to further your own financial goals. I see it sort of as the buying of ideas. You can buy a car and it's yours. You can buy a parcel of land and it's yours. You can buy a patent and it's yours. You can buy this paper and it's yours.

But, yeah, BlueOni's post is good. This is another one of those debates that travel in endless circles if you don't put your foot down somewhere.



reinux wrote:

BTW, The Ghostwriter drama that's airing on Crunchy right now is really good.


Interesting...

I might take a look.
Posted 9/3/15
I did this for a while to make extra money. And hell did I make a ton of money. I even had parents come to me asking me to help their son finally graduate. I don't really see anything wrong with it. I'm just doing what I do best, which is to write. I don't think it's my problem to worry about the morality of other people's choices. Even now as a teacher, I'm not as strict about people cheating or having other people do their work. Why? Because it's not my problem. My job is to teach them and motivate them. Their job is to learn. I do my job the best I can all the time. Whether they do their part or not is no longer my problem. That is up to them. If they do their part and learn, then that's fantastic. If they don't, oh well. That's their problem, not mine. I still get paid for doing my job while they're there wasting time. This is also why I don't rely too much on tests and grades to gauge how much my students are learning. I prefer dialogue / discussion to see who is or isn't learning.

Eventually the truth will out and it'll be their problem when it does.

So yeah, I see nothing wrong with ghostwriting. Afterall, some people make a good living out of it writing speeches for presidents. Heh...


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48 / M / New England, USA
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Posted 9/3/15
When it comes to politicians, musicians and other celebrities it's always best to believe that 99% of what they say publicly, in their stories or even during their songs or acting roles are written by someone else (unless it's proven otherwise). Ghosting is done in every business to some extent, whether it's in contract writing, interns at a law firm researching cases, even TV Network super-chefs have groups of chefs in the back perfecting the recipes they take credit for. It's been this way forever and honestly it makes more jobs so I see nothing wrong with it what-so-ever.
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Posted 9/3/15

papagolfwhiskey wrote:

In the school setting I think it's unethical. Plagiarism to be exact. If someone else did the work why are you getting the mark?


It's not plagiarism if the student buys the paper for full rights.

I sell my articles online and it would make no sense if my customers didn't own what they're buying.

So it's no longer the ghostwriters' paper but the student's
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