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Post Reply 9 reasons why raising the minimum wage is a bad idea!
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Posted 9/3/15 , edited 9/3/15

biscuitnote wrote:

Ideally we should abolish the minimum wage.


There is a point where lowering minimum wage would no longer significantly impact employment.


Why hire 3 people for $7, when I can hire those same 3 people for $5?

Dude. Dude no. Take a Macroeconomics class.

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Posted 9/3/15
The idea of eliminating the minimum wage is ridiculous and seemingly ignorant to how businesses would operate given the opportunity to fuck over their employees. However, a minimum wage of 15$ as some have proposed is equally ridiculous. The minimum wage exists to protect workers from exploitation, and as such there is a happy medium. I am not an economist so I don't know exactly where that point is, but I'd wager its somewhere from $8-$11.
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Posted 9/3/15 , edited 9/3/15

sundin13 wrote:

The idea of eliminating the minimum wage is ridiculous and seemingly ignorant to how businesses would operate given the opportunity to fuck over their employees. However, a minimum wage of 15$ as some have proposed is equally ridiculous. The minimum wage exists to protect workers from exploitation, and as such there is a happy medium. I am not an economist so I don't know exactly where that point is, but I'd wager its somewhere from $8-$11.


Is someone keeping these workers at gunpoint? Are they not free to find other jobs? Some people are worth more than others in economic terms and as such minimum wage discriminates against the lowest level of worker.
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Posted 9/3/15

biscuitnote wrote:

Is someone keeping these workers at gunpoint? Are they not free to find other jobs? Some people are worth more than others in economic terms and as such minimum wage discriminates against the lowest level of worker.


Yeah, if you're too worthless that no one wants you for higher paying jobs, then you should either not have a job or settle for less than living wage and pray they don't fire you for being homeless. Fuck worthless stupid poor people am I right? Now excuse me while I eat my lobster as I watch the peasants work.
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Posted 9/3/15

biscuitnote wrote:


sundin13 wrote:

The idea of eliminating the minimum wage is ridiculous and seemingly ignorant to how businesses would operate given the opportunity to fuck over their employees. However, a minimum wage of 15$ as some have proposed is equally ridiculous. The minimum wage exists to protect workers from exploitation, and as such there is a happy medium. I am not an economist so I don't know exactly where that point is, but I'd wager its somewhere from $8-$11.


Is someone keeping these workers at gunpoint? Are they not free to find other jobs? Some people are worth more than others in economic terms and as such minimum wage discriminates against the lowest level of worker.


The fact that they need to provide for themselves and their family would keep them in situations where they are easily exploited....
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Posted 9/3/15

sundin13 wrote:


biscuitnote wrote:


sundin13 wrote:

The idea of eliminating the minimum wage is ridiculous and seemingly ignorant to how businesses would operate given the opportunity to fuck over their employees. However, a minimum wage of 15$ as some have proposed is equally ridiculous. The minimum wage exists to protect workers from exploitation, and as such there is a happy medium. I am not an economist so I don't know exactly where that point is, but I'd wager its somewhere from $8-$11.


Is someone keeping these workers at gunpoint? Are they not free to find other jobs? Some people are worth more than others in economic terms and as such minimum wage discriminates against the lowest level of worker.


The fact that they need to provide for themselves and their family would keep them in situations where they are easily exploited....


That would have merit if there was only one employer.
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Posted 9/3/15

Buckerss wrote:


biscuitnote wrote:

Is someone keeping these workers at gunpoint? Are they not free to find other jobs? Some people are worth more than others in economic terms and as such minimum wage discriminates against the lowest level of worker.


Yeah, if you're too worthless that no one wants you for higher paying jobs, then you should either not have a job or settle for less than living wage and pray they don't fire you for being homeless. Fuck worthless stupid poor people am I right? Now excuse me while I eat my lobster as I watch the peasants work.


So in your view higher unemployment rates are acceptable as long as a living wage is paid?
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Posted 9/3/15
Your 23 you need to live a little before you understand economics of getting fucked over by your boss. You probably don't like Unions either?
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Posted 9/3/15 , edited 9/3/15

biscuitnote wrote:

So in your view higher unemployment rates are acceptable as long as a living wage is paid?


It's not a living wage. Minimum wage is there for a reason. SUPPLY AND FUCKING DEMAND.


^^^THIS SHIT

You can flood the market with workers all you want, but just because you do doesn't mean businesses WANT THEM. There isn't a god damn demand for everyone. At some point it's just a matter of escalating exploitation. There is a fucking POINT where supply and demand intersect. Do you think just going to the maximum on the supply curve makes for happy land!?!?! You might as well make a bunch of extra shoes people don't fucking want and then the shoes you actually did sell, you sold for a lot less than you could have. You know what that's called? That's called terrible fucking business.
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Posted 9/3/15 , edited 9/3/15

biscuitnote wrote:

That would have merit if there was only one employer.


First of all, finding a job isn't always easy (lowering the minimum wage may also make people more willing to rely on unemployment) and a guaranteed 4$ per hour may be better than a maybe 8$ per hour or a probably 0$ per hour. Second of all, in areas where low skill jobs are of high demand (such as high poverty areas), it doesn't seem unlikely that this wage decreasing would become fairly common. This could decrease the job pool of work that actually pays something reasonable more than raising the minimum wage...

Its like, the situation you are discussing gives 100 people jobs that pay virtually nothing whereas the situation I am discussing gives 50 people jobs that pay reasonably (obviously the numbers are just to demonstrate my point and not factual). Again, there is a point where this is balanced to create the ideal scenario (the most people able to receive the most money), and that is where the minimum wage should be. I think businesses have done enough to show that they can not be trusted to do what is best for their workers and that the free market will not force these businesses to improve.
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Posted 9/3/15 , edited 9/3/15
Atleast, minimum wage in the states isn't super high, its like $11 here, and the province wants to up it to $15, fucking kek prices on food and everything else are gonna go up equally as much, literally just gonna make it harder for people
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Posted 9/3/15

scoobydew wrote:

Your 23 you need to live a little before you understand economics of getting fucked over by your boss. You probably don't like Unions either?


Been working since I was 15
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Posted 9/3/15 , edited 9/3/15

biscuitnote wrote:

Been working since I was 15


So of those whole 8 years you've been working how many of those were minimum wage jobs and if the answer is 0 you're full of it.
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Posted 9/3/15
It's not as if companies lowering their wages if minimum wage was abolished would be a rare thing. Say someone is working somewhere where they make $5 an hour. If they feel they aren't being compensated properly, they have the option to leave - and get another job that pays $5 an hour elsewhere, because every employer for that kind of work would be doing the same thing. What counts as a "competitive salary" is based entirely on what rivals in the industry are paying. If employers could choose what to pay for entry-level jobs, they would virtually all pay less than what we expect presently.

As for employment rate versus living wage: employment rate is only relevant if we assume that being employed is enough to get by on. If employment doesn't bring someone over the poverty line, then what does it even matter how many people have jobs versus how many don't? For many of those people, their jobs would not be enough to sustain them. People would have to work multiple jobs to get by, meaning that there would be even more jobs needed. The argument that abolishing minimum wages would help eliminate unemployment, while potentially true, is pointless, as the means taken to do so would make employment itself worthless as an indicator of national quality of life.
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Posted 9/3/15 , edited 9/3/15
Minimum wage is good since it doesn't allow a bunch of business to suddenly decide that they should pay $4 an hour since their neighbors are doing the same.

Since the large businesses presumably have more money and more time to spare than poor workers, they can simply wait until people are running too low to resist the opportunity for employment. And if angry workers quit, there's no doubt that more desperate people will take their places and they will find themselves in a deeper rut.

This protection comes at a price since businesses want to profit. They will try to do so by increasing the costs of services and products and they will try to hire as few people as possible and to monitor their hours carefully.

There is good and bad on both sides of the equation. Problems exist not merely due to minimum wage. You have to address all the issues, not just target one thing.

Prices go up when minimum wages go up because the business owners want to profit. Somehow causing them to not have this mindset and to aim for modest profits is probably the best way to go about solving the wage and employment and price issues. This way, businesses can give employees a bit more money and lower prices a bit. However, since all businesses are intertwined like threads on a spiderweb, it is difficult to implement such a change fast enough for the web to remain stable.

I will agree, however, that a federal minimum wage makes no sense. It should be completely up to the states since the value of a dollar varies from place to place.
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