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Post Reply The Kim Davis controversy: are religious beliefs a valid reason to break the law?
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Posted 9/9/15
You should do the job you are elected to do as far as i'm concerned You can't let religious belief dictate your public policy. If you feel that it is against your religion to do so, then resign and let someone capable do it. She is entirely in the wrong. You have to obey the law of the land. If she was truly Christian, then she would know the Bible even encourages you to do so as governments are considered entitles created by God to help maintain peace..
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Posted 9/9/15 , edited 9/10/15
Posted 9/9/15
I seriously do not care about this at all. Just let her fade away into diabetes already.
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Posted 9/9/15
I bet she needs a daily reminder of which of her ex husbands is the father of kid A, B, C, or D.
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Posted 9/9/15 , edited 9/9/15
The argument over recognition of civil marriages for same-sex couples in the US is over, and frankly Davis, Mike Huckabee, and Ted Cruz know it's over. This isn't even bigotry. It's naked opportunism, and it was not wrong to incarcerate Davis since she was in contempt. She's very clearly looking for publicity, and both Cruz and Huckabee are perfectly happy to get it for her since it means they can try to snag the religious conservative vote more strongly for themselves in the primary.
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Posted 9/9/15
I'm from Kentucky. There's a lot of backwards people here who aren't exactly mainstream. I had an aunt who honestly believed that God was gonna give her a third set of teeth if she believed and prayed hard enough. She refused to go to a dentist and actually get them fixed and left it up to her faith in God. Now as far as the Kim Davis thing is concerned, she should be fired for not doing her job and disobeying the law. Simple as that.
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Posted 9/9/15 , edited 9/9/15

wcorrell wrote:

I'm from Kentucky. There's a lot of backwards people here who aren't exactly mainstream. I had an aunt who honestly believed that God was gonna give her a third set of teeth if she believed and prayed hard enough. She refused to go to a dentist and actually get them fixed and left it up to her faith in God. Now as far as the Kim Davis thing is concerned, she should be fired for not doing her job and disobeying the law. Simple as that.


The thing is that she can't actually be fired since she's an elected official. She can be impeached in principle, but in practice that's just not going to happen. Fining/incarcerating her if she acts in contempt are the only realistic options at this point.
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Posted 9/9/15

BlueOni wrote:


wcorrell wrote:

I'm from Kentucky. There's a lot of backwards people here who aren't exactly mainstream. I had an aunt who honestly believed that God was gonna give her a third set of teeth if she believed and prayed hard enough. She refused to go to a dentist and actually get them fixed and left it up to her faith in God. Now as far as the Kim Davis thing is concerned, she should be fired for not doing her job and disobeying the law. Simple as that.


The thing is that she can't actually be fired since she's an elected official. She can be impeached in principle, but in practice that's just not going to happen. Fining/incarcerating her if she acts in contempt are the only realistic options at this point.


So my first question who voted her into her position and my second can she be suspended without pay if she isn't impeached or a recall is put into place.
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Posted 9/9/15
The funny thing is that the couples who sued her just wanted her fined. It was the judge that decided to arrest her and now she thinks she's some kind of martyr for not doing her job.
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Posted 9/9/15 , edited 9/9/15

ziggyone wrote:

You should do the job you are elected to do as far as i'm concerned You can't let religious belief dictate your public policy. If you feel that it is against your religion to do so, then resign and let someone capable do it. She is entirely in the wrong. You have to obey the law of the land. If she was truly Christian, then she would know the Bible even encourages you to do so as governments are considered entitles created by God to help maintain peace..


Someone needs to look up a little thing about "Giving to Caesar".
If you're a county clerk, you're PAID to do your JOB. Not unlike PGW's grocery-clerk meme.
If you don't do it, the county fires you. End of socio-theological discussion.

But, another "I'm not one of those nasty 'militant atheists', I'm just average nice guy who pats dogs on the head, and gives cookies to the mailman, and hates insecure people who like pink unicorns!" columnist thought it was another Science Will Come to Mankind's Rescue issue, so let's give the baby his bottle and then put him to bed:
Science tells us only what the data tells us--And if you want it to say anything else, that isn't Science. Any more than using Religion to prove some personal issue about Republican or Saudi politics is Religion. "Worshipping science" is, in fact, a heresy to it, or at the very least, makes one a shallow blame-dodging hypocrite. And we know Who threw that word around a lot.

So, where were we?
Clerk gets fired, columnist's ears perk up at the R-word, and a lot of discontented high-school and college kids with fundie and Catholic parents think they've found the Thread of the Day to prove them right. Moving on.


neugenx wrote:
Now here she is having a rally, coming out to Eye of the Tiger by Survivor. The band has issued a Cease and Desist letter for her to stop using the song as her use of it is against their beliefs and values as well as being used without their permission. .


And for being facepalmingly corny.

The only thing that could wash that image out of our brains:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGJd8FLAqRA
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Posted 9/9/15

scoobydew wrote:

So my first question who voted her into her position and my second can she be suspended without pay if she isn't impeached or a recall is put into place.


She's a county clerk who got her current office in the 2014 election, so I'd think the people responsible for her assuming office are the Democrats (yes Democrats, that's what she ran as) and independents of Rowan county, Kentucky. A recall election might be in the cards given her official misconduct, but I'm not sure it's an option. Suspension without pay isn't really an option, but she has been threatened with resumption of incarceration if she interferes with her deputies.
Posted 9/9/15 , edited 9/9/15
The video of her crying literally made me laugh. I really laughed.
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Posted 9/9/15 , edited 9/9/15
I don't think she should have gone to jail. HOWEVER. She should be removed/fired from her position. Perhaps even fined. I find her actions no different than not allowing a person of color to eat at a /white/ restaurant. I think a fair justice would to have the same punishment that those business owners faced when segregation was being abolished. You can't break the law just because you don't like the law.


Edit. I forgot she was an elected official. So she would have to be removed from that position, not fired.
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Posted 9/9/15 , edited 9/14/15


XD XD XD XD "I'm sorry sir...unless you're buying those flowers for your waifu...I can't sell them to you. Why? Because I only believe in 2-D relationships."

(not really, but still hahahaha I would say this as a joke to my friends if they ever come to my store)
Posted 9/9/15 , edited 9/9/15
This question is actually somewhat... hazy.... in such a way that I can't give a straight answer to it.

I'm not even sure how to explain my reasoning, but allow me to try.

"Are religious beliefs a valid reason to break the law" ~ well, I would say, in general, yes. However, only as a last resort.

What do I mean by this? Well, there's law and then there's morality, and those two don't always intersect. Religion is one reason why they might not intersect, and in certain circumstances, i'd say it justifies breaking the law. However, it's important to note that i'm not even really referring to religion specifically as much as i'm referring to morality in general. But morality is often (but not always) contained within religion, which is why i feel the topic is somewhat related.

It's basically the same line of reasoning behind those who engage in civil disobedience because they are morally incapable of complying with certain policies or laws..

To quote St. Augustine, "An unjust law is no law at all". Some may find the concept archaic, but I still stand by it.

Now, the case with this woman is patently different for the reason that her occupation is not tied to her religious convictions. If she disagrees with the State, then she should not work for the State. Rather than refusing orders, she simply should have resigned. However, if someone was punished for resigning due to their religion, or deemed incapable of resigning, then (as an American), I might find that to be an infrigement of religious freedom. However, that's an entirely separate case.

So basically - yes, I do think religion is one reason to break law, insofar as I don't think morally unjust laws are binding. However, this particular woman is not an example of that line of thinking in action because she had a perfectly legal avenue to go down in which she could maintain her religious convictions and abide by the law - and that avenue was resigning.
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