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Post Reply The Kim Davis controversy: are religious beliefs a valid reason to break the law?
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20 / F / You don't need to...
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Posted 9/9/15
Anything that physically or mentally abuses a person should not be allowed. Religion is OLD and some parts of it should be changed if needed to fit the modern times. Humans have evolved since then, and people should care about other people as long as they're not assholes, like this woman.
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Posted 9/9/15
In 1639, a group of New England Puritans drafted a constitution affirming their faith in God and their intention to organize a Christian Nation. They drew up the Fundamental Orders of Connecticut, which made clear that their government rested on divine authority and pursued godly purposes. Those Puritan Fathers exemplify two of the most enduring views of colonial America: America as a haven of religious freedom, and America as a Christian Nation. Citizenship in the state was directly tied to one's religious faith. The authors of the Fundamental Orders meant for only godly Christians to rule, an intention embodied in the oath of the governor, which committed the chief magistrate to govern "according to the rule of the word of God."


A century and a half afterwards, George Washington took another oath, swearing to "faithfully execute the office of the President of the United States" and pledging to the best of his ability to "preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States." This constitution that he swore to uphold was the work of the "Founding Fathers," who in 1787 drafted a constitution for the new nation. This federal constitution made no reference to God or divine providence whatsoever, citing the people of the United States as its sole power. Instead of building a "Christian Commonwealth," the supreme law of the land established a secular state.

In debating the language, the first House of Representatives rejected a Senate proposal that would have made possible the establishment of the Christian religion or of some aspect of Christian orthodoxy. There would be no Church of the United States. Nor would America represent itself to the world as a Christian Republic.


The fundamental problem with Kim Davis is she still believes that she lives in City upon a Hill. In reality, she lives in the United States of America.
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22 / M / New York
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Posted 9/9/15
If I worked at Burger King for example, and I neglected to make a cheeseburger because of "religion", I want a crowd applauding me too.
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46 / M / Between yesterday...
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Posted 9/9/15

PhantomGundam wrote:

The funny thing is that the couples who sued her just wanted her fined. It was the judge that decided to arrest her and now she thinks she's some kind of martyr for not doing her job.


The judge was attempting to expedite the problem by moving her out of the picture since her deputies can issue licenses as well. Personally I would have good with the maximum fine per day until she relented, this would have removed any money motive she may have and any gains she may get now from those on the right.

Fun the nice thing about living out west if you get one of these yahoo's and Oregon has a Judge right now that is doing the same there is in place in most of the state a means by which the offending party can be removed from office by the court. Tends to make the system work better and keeps yahoo's from making a mess of stuff. We had one in Tacoma had to do a recall since he was technically doing his job though very poorly and that was the end of ranked ballots here in this town.
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Posted 9/9/15 , edited 9/9/15

jencheng wrote:
The fundamental problem with Kim Davis is she still believes that she lives in City upon a Hill. In reality, she lives in the United States of America.


Again, I'm just waiting for Davis or her supporters to pull out the "WWJD?" card, since, ironically, Jesus gave us one of the very first test cases of the separation of church and state:
In John, when the Pharisees asked him whether Judeans should refuse to pay taxes to the Romans on sacred moral grounds--The answer, essentially, was that being a responsible citizen and fulfilling your duties that the civil state expects of you should not have any impact on your own personal faith beliefs, which should be secure enough to remain your own no matter what you encounter.
In other words, Kim, guess Who's not on your side in this issue?
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Posted 9/9/15
My opinions are as follows:

1. Gay marriage has nothing to do with marriages in a religious sense as marriages are officiated/recognized by the government. They do not need any one religion's approval in the USA to be considered eligible for a marriage license. They need only seek the governments approval and as such does not impose on anyone's religion. It's cheaper to get married in court anyway.

2. Mrs. Davis is in actuality in violation of religious freedom by using a government position to deny peoples rights because of her religious beliefs, and is acting against the constitution.

3. This is just a big right wing hissy fit that has been around for awhile, and they have dubbed it as the "War on Christians".
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24 / M / USA
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Posted 9/9/15
Government jobs, the only place you won't get fired for not doin' your job.



AMIRITE
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52 / M / Bay Area
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Posted 9/9/15
I haven't been ashamed to being a Democrat for awhile but being Mrs Davis is registered Donkey I am
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Posted 9/9/15

Ejanss wrote:


ziggyone wrote:

You should do the job you are elected to do as far as i'm concerned You can't let religious belief dictate your public policy. If you feel that it is against your religion to do so, then resign and let someone capable do it. She is entirely in the wrong. You have to obey the law of the land. If she was truly Christian, then she would know the Bible even encourages you to do so as governments are considered entitles created by God to help maintain peace..


Someone needs to look up a little thing about "Giving to Caesar".


Yes, check it out in the books of Mark, Matthew, Luke, Romans, Peter, Titus, and idk the whole New Testament like this lady just want attention she ain't following what she preachin

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Posted 9/9/15
Nope they are not and shouldn't be.
Posted 9/9/15
If religion conflicts with job or person doesn't feel comfortable with what job entails, fucking quit job.

I promise, no gods will be hurt in the process.
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Posted 9/9/15 , edited 9/16/15
A topic where the CR forums are in agreement? It's... so beautiful... Is this how a waifu gets her wings?

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Posted 9/9/15 , edited 9/9/15
You can have your rights as long as you don't intrude on others' rights. Once you do, that is unacceptable.

Sure, believe what horrible things you want and brood over ways to kill your neighbor and rape his 5-year-old daughter. That's fine. But once you actually prepare and set out and do it, that's a different story.

Imagine the world as a large apartment complex. Each person's room is his/her mind. You can be as messy and gross as you want behind your door but, once you open the door and that mess spills from your mind into the public domain of reality (the hallway and other common areas), you are adversely affecting others and you have no right to do that.
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Posted 9/9/15
I believe there are instances where it would be valid to defy the law for religious reasons. Such as avoiding a draft. It wasn't her religion, but her own bigotry that caused her to do what she did. I am getting sick of people hiding behind their religions (or lack thereof) to avoid seeing their own ugliness. It merely causes misunderstandings and animosity between people. The fact that it was only a job makes the situation that much worse. I can't even describe my disgust towards the people that are capitalizing on this for political gain.
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24 / M / St.Louis - USA
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Posted 9/9/15
Personal beliefs > Law
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