First  Prev  1  2  Next  Last
Post Reply Which author is better with their female characters? Akira Toriyama or Masashi Kishimoto?
1251 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
20 / M / USA
Offline
Posted 9/12/15
It's inevitable that a thread like this would pop up. Both are often accused by some of being sexist but I think "which one is the lesser evil?".

First, with Akira Toriyama.... there are not many female characters featured in Dragon World (much less ones with a recurring role) and aside from Bulma, the characters tend to be sidelined at best or at worst, reduced to stereotypical depictions.

#18 - She's the strongest female in the series and is far stronger than any human in the series yet serves no role other than to be a trophy wife for Krillin. Toriyama even admits that's the whole reason he introduced her.

Videl - She was introduced as an intelligent, tentative, and a quite strong (for a regular human) fighter but is reduced to a stereotypical Japanese housewife once she gets Gohan. The first episode of Super has her changing way too drastically for just 6 months.

Chi-Chi - She was one of the top fighters in Dragon Ball and a major turning point in Goku's life but went to being primarily referenced in accentuation of her seemingly negative qualities. She's even been underrated to the point of giving people false illusions to her abilities.

Lunch - She served primarily as comic relief and is completely ignored by DBZ

Masashi Kishimoto, on the hand... has introduced a decent number of female characters and almost all of which are ninjas yet they play second-fiddle to the males. Ten-Ten is bland and doesn't really do anything (even her first and only major fight only lasted a panel), Ino Yamamaka is floating on a similar boat, Karin is obsessed with Sasuke 24/7 just like Sakura only that's her whole character, and Sakura... Sakura is just a terrible character (though compared to how terribly Z-era treats Chi-Chi's character , which is easy to look past since the narrative enforced she was a shrew, makes it up for debate). She's largely useless despite being on the main team of the series, she flips-flops all over the place, and obsesses over the "stick-up-his-ass" pretty boy 24/7. Not to mention she acts rather headbangingly stupid for someone who's supposedly intelligent (which she rarely shows outside academics).

Kishimoto admitted he's not great with writing females... but he keeps writing them in for some reason.

Who is the better at writing females for you?
JuJu26 
27552 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
23 / M / U.S.A.
Offline
Posted 9/12/15 , edited 9/12/15

DBZAOTA482 wrote:

It's inevitable that a thread like this would pop up. Both are often accused by some of being sexist but I think "which one is the lesser evil?".

First, with Akira Toriyama.... there are not many female characters featured in Dragon World (much less ones with a recurring role) and aside from Bulma, the characters tend to be sidelined at best or at worst, reduced to stereotypical depictions.

#18 - She's the strongest female in the series and is far stronger than any human in the series yet serves no role other than to be a trophy wife for Krillin. Toriyama even admits that's the whole reason he introduced her.

Videl - She was introduced as an intelligent, tentative, and a quite strong (for a regular human) fighter but is reduced to a stereotypical Japanese housewife once she gets Gohan. The first episode of Super has her changing way too drastically for just 6 months.

Chi-Chi - She was one of the top fighters in Dragon Ball and a major turning point in Goku's life but went to being primarily referenced in accentuation of her seemingly negative qualities. She's even been underrated to the point of giving people false illusions to her abilities.

Lunch - She served primarily as comic relief and is completely ignored by DBZ

Masashi Kishimoto, on the hand... has introduced a decent number of female characters and almost all of which are ninjas yet they play second-fiddle to the males. Ten-Ten is bland and doesn't really do anything (even her first and only major fight only lasted a panel), Ino Yamamaka is floating on a similar boat, Karin is obsessed with Sasuke 24/7 just like Sakura only that's her whole character, and Sakura... Sakura is just a terrible character (though compared to how terribly Z-era treats Chi-Chi's character , which is easy to look past since the narrative enforced she was a shrew, makes it up for debate). She's largely useless despite being on the main team of the series, she flips-flops all over the place, and obsesses over the "stick-up-his-ass" pretty boy 24/7. Not to mention she acts rather headbangingly stupid for someone who's supposedly intelligent (which she rarely shows outside academics).

Kishimoto admitted he's not great with writing females... but he keeps writing them in for some reason.

Who is the better at writing females for you?


Hah! If you like what they did to their female characters, then you should see how Hiro Mashima and Tite Kubo handle their female characters! XD
4570 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
21 / F / San Francisco
Offline
Posted 9/13/15 , edited 9/15/15
Could not stop laughing at this.

Overall I'm satisfied with Kishimoto's portrayal of women. NO it's not perfect but he does place women in positions of power (Tsunade, Temari, Mizukage, Konan) and he doesn't objectify or sexualize them. Also Sakura's character definitely evolves into a stronger and more independent female. Also the manga/anime is targeted towards boys so it makes sense, to me, that there would be less of a female presence because let's be honest- girls are typically interested in different things. Typically not always.

Toriyama.... I can't even believe I was allowed to watch DB as a child. I mean all the sexual harassment via master Roshi...
23413 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
16 / F / Always my room
Offline
Posted 9/13/15
I've liked Eiichiro Oda's female characters the best
32288 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
24 / M / St.Louis - USA
Offline
Posted 9/13/15
Oda, since I actually like the female characters
4911 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
F / Canada
Offline
Posted 9/14/15
Akira Toriyama if only because Bulma doens't annoy me nearly as much as Sakura.
3731 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
16 / F / イブキド
Offline
Posted 9/14/15
I think Naruto had some pretty good female characters, but DBZ...not so much.
9769 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
24 / F / Johnstown, PA, USA
Offline
Posted 10/16/15 , edited 10/16/15
Kishimoto. Toriyama managed to genuinely forget about Launch, for years.
Posted 10/16/15

JuJu26 wrote:


DBZAOTA482 wrote:

It's inevitable that a thread like this would pop up. Both are often accused by some of being sexist but I think "which one is the lesser evil?".

First, with Akira Toriyama.... there are not many female characters featured in Dragon World (much less ones with a recurring role) and aside from Bulma, the characters tend to be sidelined at best or at worst, reduced to stereotypical depictions.

#18 - She's the strongest female in the series and is far stronger than any human in the series yet serves no role other than to be a trophy wife for Krillin. Toriyama even admits that's the whole reason he introduced her.

Videl - She was introduced as an intelligent, tentative, and a quite strong (for a regular human) fighter but is reduced to a stereotypical Japanese housewife once she gets Gohan. The first episode of Super has her changing way too drastically for just 6 months.

Chi-Chi - She was one of the top fighters in Dragon Ball and a major turning point in Goku's life but went to being primarily referenced in accentuation of her seemingly negative qualities. She's even been underrated to the point of giving people false illusions to her abilities.

Lunch - She served primarily as comic relief and is completely ignored by DBZ

Masashi Kishimoto, on the hand... has introduced a decent number of female characters and almost all of which are ninjas yet they play second-fiddle to the males. Ten-Ten is bland and doesn't really do anything (even her first and only major fight only lasted a panel), Ino Yamamaka is floating on a similar boat, Karin is obsessed with Sasuke 24/7 just like Sakura only that's her whole character, and Sakura... Sakura is just a terrible character (though compared to how terribly Z-era treats Chi-Chi's character , which is easy to look past since the narrative enforced she was a shrew, makes it up for debate). She's largely useless despite being on the main team of the series, she flips-flops all over the place, and obsesses over the "stick-up-his-ass" pretty boy 24/7. Not to mention she acts rather headbangingly stupid for someone who's supposedly intelligent (which she rarely shows outside academics).

Kishimoto admitted he's not great with writing females... but he keeps writing them in for some reason.

Who is the better at writing females for you?


Hah! If you like what they did to their female characters, then you should see how Hiro Mashima and Tite Kubo handle their female characters! XD

I see nothing wrong with Bleach females.
JuJu26 
27552 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
23 / M / U.S.A.
Offline
Posted 10/16/15

PeripheralVisionary wrote:


JuJu26 wrote:


DBZAOTA482 wrote:

It's inevitable that a thread like this would pop up. Both are often accused by some of being sexist but I think "which one is the lesser evil?".

First, with Akira Toriyama.... there are not many female characters featured in Dragon World (much less ones with a recurring role) and aside from Bulma, the characters tend to be sidelined at best or at worst, reduced to stereotypical depictions.

#18 - She's the strongest female in the series and is far stronger than any human in the series yet serves no role other than to be a trophy wife for Krillin. Toriyama even admits that's the whole reason he introduced her.

Videl - She was introduced as an intelligent, tentative, and a quite strong (for a regular human) fighter but is reduced to a stereotypical Japanese housewife once she gets Gohan. The first episode of Super has her changing way too drastically for just 6 months.

Chi-Chi - She was one of the top fighters in Dragon Ball and a major turning point in Goku's life but went to being primarily referenced in accentuation of her seemingly negative qualities. She's even been underrated to the point of giving people false illusions to her abilities.

Lunch - She served primarily as comic relief and is completely ignored by DBZ

Masashi Kishimoto, on the hand... has introduced a decent number of female characters and almost all of which are ninjas yet they play second-fiddle to the males. Ten-Ten is bland and doesn't really do anything (even her first and only major fight only lasted a panel), Ino Yamamaka is floating on a similar boat, Karin is obsessed with Sasuke 24/7 just like Sakura only that's her whole character, and Sakura... Sakura is just a terrible character (though compared to how terribly Z-era treats Chi-Chi's character , which is easy to look past since the narrative enforced she was a shrew, makes it up for debate). She's largely useless despite being on the main team of the series, she flips-flops all over the place, and obsesses over the "stick-up-his-ass" pretty boy 24/7. Not to mention she acts rather headbangingly stupid for someone who's supposedly intelligent (which she rarely shows outside academics).

Kishimoto admitted he's not great with writing females... but he keeps writing them in for some reason.

Who is the better at writing females for you?


Hah! If you like what they did to their female characters, then you should see how Hiro Mashima and Tite Kubo handle their female characters! XD

I see nothing wrong with Bleach females.



Oh? Allow me to elaborate then. While Kubo's fan service with his female characters aren't nearly as flashy as Mashima's, they do lack character moments or actions that help mold their development or reason. For example, Orihime. With her, she hasn't had that moment where fans can say, "Alright, she did something that helped developed herself while holding her own against a decent enemy without any help whatsoever". This isn't just women either. While I am only listing one character, the same applies for many as well. Kubo has a wide cast of characters and I feel most to some of them don't get the amount of attention they need for decent or good development.
Posted 10/17/15

JuJu26 wrote:


PeripheralVisionary wrote:


JuJu26 wrote:


DBZAOTA482 wrote:

It's inevitable that a thread like this would pop up. Both are often accused by some of being sexist but I think "which one is the lesser evil?".

First, with Akira Toriyama.... there are not many female characters featured in Dragon World (much less ones with a recurring role) and aside from Bulma, the characters tend to be sidelined at best or at worst, reduced to stereotypical depictions.

#18 - She's the strongest female in the series and is far stronger than any human in the series yet serves no role other than to be a trophy wife for Krillin. Toriyama even admits that's the whole reason he introduced her.

Videl - She was introduced as an intelligent, tentative, and a quite strong (for a regular human) fighter but is reduced to a stereotypical Japanese housewife once she gets Gohan. The first episode of Super has her changing way too drastically for just 6 months.

Chi-Chi - She was one of the top fighters in Dragon Ball and a major turning point in Goku's life but went to being primarily referenced in accentuation of her seemingly negative qualities. She's even been underrated to the point of giving people false illusions to her abilities.

Lunch - She served primarily as comic relief and is completely ignored by DBZ

Masashi Kishimoto, on the hand... has introduced a decent number of female characters and almost all of which are ninjas yet they play second-fiddle to the males. Ten-Ten is bland and doesn't really do anything (even her first and only major fight only lasted a panel), Ino Yamamaka is floating on a similar boat, Karin is obsessed with Sasuke 24/7 just like Sakura only that's her whole character, and Sakura... Sakura is just a terrible character (though compared to how terribly Z-era treats Chi-Chi's character , which is easy to look past since the narrative enforced she was a shrew, makes it up for debate). She's largely useless despite being on the main team of the series, she flips-flops all over the place, and obsesses over the "stick-up-his-ass" pretty boy 24/7. Not to mention she acts rather headbangingly stupid for someone who's supposedly intelligent (which she rarely shows outside academics).

Kishimoto admitted he's not great with writing females... but he keeps writing them in for some reason.

Who is the better at writing females for you?


Hah! If you like what they did to their female characters, then you should see how Hiro Mashima and Tite Kubo handle their female characters! XD

I see nothing wrong with Bleach females.



Oh? Allow me to elaborate then. While Kubo's fan service with his female characters aren't nearly as flashy as Mashima's, they do lack character moments or actions that help mold their development or reason. For example, Orihime. With her, she hasn't had that moment where fans can say, "Alright, she did something that helped developed herself while holding her own against a decent enemy without any help whatsoever". This isn't just women either. While I am only listing one character, the same applies for many as well. Kubo has a wide cast of characters and I feel most to some of them don't get the amount of attention they need for decent or good development.

And that is sexist because...
3493 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
27 / M / Near a peach tree.
Offline
Posted 10/17/15

Kitahoshi_Hazel wrote:

Akira Toriyama if only because Bulma doens't annoy me nearly as much as Sakura.


I agree, Bulma and Sakura are not real ladies. Even you're more of a lady than those two characters.
JuJu26 
27552 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
23 / M / U.S.A.
Offline
Posted 10/17/15

PeripheralVisionary wrote:


JuJu26 wrote:


PeripheralVisionary wrote:


JuJu26 wrote:


DBZAOTA482 wrote:

It's inevitable that a thread like this would pop up. Both are often accused by some of being sexist but I think "which one is the lesser evil?".

First, with Akira Toriyama.... there are not many female characters featured in Dragon World (much less ones with a recurring role) and aside from Bulma, the characters tend to be sidelined at best or at worst, reduced to stereotypical depictions.

#18 - She's the strongest female in the series and is far stronger than any human in the series yet serves no role other than to be a trophy wife for Krillin. Toriyama even admits that's the whole reason he introduced her.

Videl - She was introduced as an intelligent, tentative, and a quite strong (for a regular human) fighter but is reduced to a stereotypical Japanese housewife once she gets Gohan. The first episode of Super has her changing way too drastically for just 6 months.

Chi-Chi - She was one of the top fighters in Dragon Ball and a major turning point in Goku's life but went to being primarily referenced in accentuation of her seemingly negative qualities. She's even been underrated to the point of giving people false illusions to her abilities.

Lunch - She served primarily as comic relief and is completely ignored by DBZ

Masashi Kishimoto, on the hand... has introduced a decent number of female characters and almost all of which are ninjas yet they play second-fiddle to the males. Ten-Ten is bland and doesn't really do anything (even her first and only major fight only lasted a panel), Ino Yamamaka is floating on a similar boat, Karin is obsessed with Sasuke 24/7 just like Sakura only that's her whole character, and Sakura... Sakura is just a terrible character (though compared to how terribly Z-era treats Chi-Chi's character , which is easy to look past since the narrative enforced she was a shrew, makes it up for debate). She's largely useless despite being on the main team of the series, she flips-flops all over the place, and obsesses over the "stick-up-his-ass" pretty boy 24/7. Not to mention she acts rather headbangingly stupid for someone who's supposedly intelligent (which she rarely shows outside academics).

Kishimoto admitted he's not great with writing females... but he keeps writing them in for some reason.

Who is the better at writing females for you?


Hah! If you like what they did to their female characters, then you should see how Hiro Mashima and Tite Kubo handle their female characters! XD

I see nothing wrong with Bleach females.



Oh? Allow me to elaborate then. While Kubo's fan service with his female characters aren't nearly as flashy as Mashima's, they do lack character moments or actions that help mold their development or reason. For example, Orihime. With her, she hasn't had that moment where fans can say, "Alright, she did something that helped developed herself while holding her own against a decent enemy without any help whatsoever". This isn't just women either. While I am only listing one character, the same applies for many as well. Kubo has a wide cast of characters and I feel most to some of them don't get the amount of attention they need for decent or good development.

And that is sexist because...



Half of what I said is a tangent, but the other half is sexist because Kubo tosses his female characters aside and sexualizes them a lot. I'll be honest here, i'm not against the fan service, but I can see why women would hate it.
Posted 10/17/15

JuJu26 wrote:


PeripheralVisionary wrote:


JuJu26 wrote:


PeripheralVisionary wrote:


JuJu26 wrote:


DBZAOTA482 wrote:

It's inevitable that a thread like this would pop up. Both are often accused by some of being sexist but I think "which one is the lesser evil?".

First, with Akira Toriyama.... there are not many female characters featured in Dragon World (much less ones with a recurring role) and aside from Bulma, the characters tend to be sidelined at best or at worst, reduced to stereotypical depictions.

#18 - She's the strongest female in the series and is far stronger than any human in the series yet serves no role other than to be a trophy wife for Krillin. Toriyama even admits that's the whole reason he introduced her.

Videl - She was introduced as an intelligent, tentative, and a quite strong (for a regular human) fighter but is reduced to a stereotypical Japanese housewife once she gets Gohan. The first episode of Super has her changing way too drastically for just 6 months.

Chi-Chi - She was one of the top fighters in Dragon Ball and a major turning point in Goku's life but went to being primarily referenced in accentuation of her seemingly negative qualities. She's even been underrated to the point of giving people false illusions to her abilities.

Lunch - She served primarily as comic relief and is completely ignored by DBZ

Masashi Kishimoto, on the hand... has introduced a decent number of female characters and almost all of which are ninjas yet they play second-fiddle to the males. Ten-Ten is bland and doesn't really do anything (even her first and only major fight only lasted a panel), Ino Yamamaka is floating on a similar boat, Karin is obsessed with Sasuke 24/7 just like Sakura only that's her whole character, and Sakura... Sakura is just a terrible character (though compared to how terribly Z-era treats Chi-Chi's character , which is easy to look past since the narrative enforced she was a shrew, makes it up for debate). She's largely useless despite being on the main team of the series, she flips-flops all over the place, and obsesses over the "stick-up-his-ass" pretty boy 24/7. Not to mention she acts rather headbangingly stupid for someone who's supposedly intelligent (which she rarely shows outside academics).

Kishimoto admitted he's not great with writing females... but he keeps writing them in for some reason.

Who is the better at writing females for you?


Hah! If you like what they did to their female characters, then you should see how Hiro Mashima and Tite Kubo handle their female characters! XD

I see nothing wrong with Bleach females.



Oh? Allow me to elaborate then. While Kubo's fan service with his female characters aren't nearly as flashy as Mashima's, they do lack character moments or actions that help mold their development or reason. For example, Orihime. With her, she hasn't had that moment where fans can say, "Alright, she did something that helped developed herself while holding her own against a decent enemy without any help whatsoever". This isn't just women either. While I am only listing one character, the same applies for many as well. Kubo has a wide cast of characters and I feel most to some of them don't get the amount of attention they need for decent or good development.

And that is sexist because...



Half of what I said is a tangent, but the other half is sexist because Kubo tosses his female characters aside and sexualizes them a lot. I'll be honest here, i'm not against the fan service, but I can see why women would hate it.


And this isn't the case with the male half?
JuJu26 
27552 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
23 / M / U.S.A.
Offline
Posted 10/17/15

PeripheralVisionary wrote:


JuJu26 wrote:


PeripheralVisionary wrote:


JuJu26 wrote:


PeripheralVisionary wrote:


JuJu26 wrote:


DBZAOTA482 wrote:

It's inevitable that a thread like this would pop up. Both are often accused by some of being sexist but I think "which one is the lesser evil?".

First, with Akira Toriyama.... there are not many female characters featured in Dragon World (much less ones with a recurring role) and aside from Bulma, the characters tend to be sidelined at best or at worst, reduced to stereotypical depictions.

#18 - She's the strongest female in the series and is far stronger than any human in the series yet serves no role other than to be a trophy wife for Krillin. Toriyama even admits that's the whole reason he introduced her.

Videl - She was introduced as an intelligent, tentative, and a quite strong (for a regular human) fighter but is reduced to a stereotypical Japanese housewife once she gets Gohan. The first episode of Super has her changing way too drastically for just 6 months.

Chi-Chi - She was one of the top fighters in Dragon Ball and a major turning point in Goku's life but went to being primarily referenced in accentuation of her seemingly negative qualities. She's even been underrated to the point of giving people false illusions to her abilities.

Lunch - She served primarily as comic relief and is completely ignored by DBZ

Masashi Kishimoto, on the hand... has introduced a decent number of female characters and almost all of which are ninjas yet they play second-fiddle to the males. Ten-Ten is bland and doesn't really do anything (even her first and only major fight only lasted a panel), Ino Yamamaka is floating on a similar boat, Karin is obsessed with Sasuke 24/7 just like Sakura only that's her whole character, and Sakura... Sakura is just a terrible character (though compared to how terribly Z-era treats Chi-Chi's character , which is easy to look past since the narrative enforced she was a shrew, makes it up for debate). She's largely useless despite being on the main team of the series, she flips-flops all over the place, and obsesses over the "stick-up-his-ass" pretty boy 24/7. Not to mention she acts rather headbangingly stupid for someone who's supposedly intelligent (which she rarely shows outside academics).

Kishimoto admitted he's not great with writing females... but he keeps writing them in for some reason.

Who is the better at writing females for you?


Hah! If you like what they did to their female characters, then you should see how Hiro Mashima and Tite Kubo handle their female characters! XD

I see nothing wrong with Bleach females.



Oh? Allow me to elaborate then. While Kubo's fan service with his female characters aren't nearly as flashy as Mashima's, they do lack character moments or actions that help mold their development or reason. For example, Orihime. With her, she hasn't had that moment where fans can say, "Alright, she did something that helped developed herself while holding her own against a decent enemy without any help whatsoever". This isn't just women either. While I am only listing one character, the same applies for many as well. Kubo has a wide cast of characters and I feel most to some of them don't get the amount of attention they need for decent or good development.

And that is sexist because...



Half of what I said is a tangent, but the other half is sexist because Kubo tosses his female characters aside and sexualizes them a lot. I'll be honest here, i'm not against the fan service, but I can see why women would hate it.


And this isn't the case with the male half?



I would say no because some of them get some or at least decent development. Plus, not all men have 6-packs in the series (i.e. Omaeda). Before I go on, I think this boils down to another big topic, which is, the whole fan service and sexualization of characters in Anime/Manga. That's always been a thing for quite some time and not just in Shonen Manga either. It's their thing and I guess that's what their market aims for.
First  Prev  1  2  Next  Last
You must be logged in to post.