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Post Reply Drugs should be legalized. All of them...
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Posted 9/13/15 , edited 9/16/15
Hello Crunchyroll, I felt like getting my debate on and I happened to stumble upon someone with a very strong opinion on the matter recently which resulted in an interesting debate.
No there will not be a "TL;DR" version if you have to resort to laziness to remain interested that says all I need to know about your opinion on the matter to begin with.

We live in a hypocritical world, where having double-standards and a face for every argument is the one true gospel.
With this comes one of the most overwhelmingly stupefying ideas that our society ever came up.
I am referring to the system of "laws".

Laws are on paper, entirely benign, but the fact is that they are no more logical than christmas in October, or using science-fiction movies for a fact sheet in an astrology/biology class.

Let me give you an example.

The invisible Fence
When I was still in Kindergarten, one of the caretakers pointed out an invisible fence around a field that lead towards a herd of cows and one big bull, naturally he wanted to point out to us that we stayed as far away as possible from the herd, so he came up with the idea of an invisible electrical fence.
A few of my friends and myself felt defiant and ran passed the "electrical fence" and I think this is a good metaphor for my argument, because our jurisdiction around the world is a load of crap.
Oh yeah and of course; I lived to tell the tale.

We rob people of their rights, not just with what we choose to do with our bodies out of our own free will, but same-sex couples can't marry in big parts of the world, some countries still prohibit free speech, and germany (whilst understandable that they dread nazicism) prohibits you from believing in Hitler's ideology and "practice" it by listening to nazi songs etc. This too is wrong, because it goes against the principles of freedom of speech.
We may not agree with it as a vast majority, but it's their life, they ought to be able to express what they believe regardless of how vile it may sound. There is no such thing as "hate speech" there is just ones opinion.
There is however such a thing as hatecrime, let's not mistake the two for the same thing.
A neo-nazi beating up someone jewish should still be held responsible.

Our Laws are void
And that has me arrive at another vital point. The system that is supposed to protect us, works against us, more often than not. Someone forging paper to gain an edge financially is much more likely to receive a severe punishment than someone who committed rape and murder. In other words, the jurisdiction that we are supposed to believe brings justice to all, is actually the biggest insult to the induvidual, because the system doesn't believe that you are capable of taking responsibility for your actions.
In fact, they don't even give you a chance at proving that you are in fact capable of doing just that.

We live in a world, where we give a small handful of people the power to direct lethal force at someone based on nothing more than "they felt threatened"
We live in a world, where our officers of law, are given a license to kill.

But I digress.

Understanding what "Drugs" and "Addiction" means
Drugs, are a number of things, substances and the term "drugs" is in its own right, too vague an umbrella term to educate anyone. And that's where it all snaps. We lack education.
Not even necessarily the instituitional breed, but the very basis of knowledge and know-how.
It's a common bias that heroin users, are by default low-class scum, and their addiction is inevitable.

Addiction. What an absolute misinformed usage of a word.
People actually believe, that there are components in substances, food and so forth that causes addiction, as if you could conceive it through the air or viral contact.

Addiction is in fact, a compulsive need that makes us feel like it is vital for our brain to produce chemicals known as "endorphins" in our brain, to the point where the lack of said approach can cause physical effects, also known as "withdrawal symptoms".

Everyone has the potential to possess a unique ability in producing endorphins, meaning I might extract estatic pleasure from playing video games, whereas someone else might feel the very same, but with cigerattes.
They are in fact, issues of the same mother. We cannot, should not illegalize trivial things such as drugs and video games, because treating everyone with the same bias, is a one-way ticket to entire nations of disenfranchised citizens, but a select few. Is that really what we consider an ideal society?

Understanding addiction is key for this argument, and ignoring the basis of what it means to be addicted is ignoring the issue entirely to begin with.

Repercussions as a result of legalizing all Drugs
Do you want your kids/future kids to be safe? then educate them.
Don't let them dwell in ignorance and fear, they both often go hand in hand.

The reality of the matter is, yes... There would be people that would die as a direct result of the legalization of "hard" drugs. Have we forgotten, that this is already our reality? People O.D on anti-depressants and forgive me for not being knowledgable of the names of all those cryptic latin/ancient greek dubbed pills, but they are as much of a drug as heroin, and should be treated by the same standard.

The real question is; will people stop dying from taking drugs and substances if we keep them illegalized? I think you already know the answer without me telling you.

Instead of focusing on the ignorant ideas and bias we have accumulated throughout our lives, should we not attempt to look at this "reality" of ours instead?

Reality versus Fear
Let me ask you, in a world where drugs are manufactored, distributed and managed by professionals, do you sincerely believe that the criminal underworld that is entirely dependant on illegal distribution, would still be the powerhouse that it is?

We have genuine proof, that this "war on drugs" is nothing more, but casualties with no positive outcome.
Shutting down a marijuana store will create a dousin of dealers on the street. Do we just neglect that reality as we ragingly blow down the doors?
No let me tell you something that a lot of people don't want to think about.

Keeping substances illegal, is a direct assault on human lives. Families ruined, streets overthrown by criminals and creating massive leeway for gangsters (REAL gangsters) and shady people in general.
On top of this, we have desperate people fighting for their very lives just to remain in one piece, well here you have an easy job with no questions asked, that "rewards" you for just doing your job.
What they don't tell you is that you are a subject of manipulation and extreme danger, just by undertaking their dirty business, even as the lowest of the lowest echelon in their working force.

The middle-man, which are people that can't for whatever reason get a job, are sometimes exploited to the point where you are thrown into taking drugs, drugs that have been made by some hilbilly wanker that uses his own damn toothbrush for equipment to produce these low-grade substances. Barely resemblant of anything that could even be considered crystal meth or whatever they're supposed to be.

Then there's the issue of management. Obviously the middle-man is still in play at this point, distributing, but he also manages. Basically, you should try to imagine a CEO of a large company such as Ben & Jerry's.
Do you think the CEO honestly produces (making the ice-cream) manages (makes sure what stores they are delivered to, pricing, advertisement) and distributes (delivers by truck to said stores on-time) all on his or her own?
No... No they don't, and the reason for that is because it's not possible to establish a proper product or service that way.

Legalizing specific drugs and why it won't work
Today it's more common to be "Open-minded" as people like to dub themselves, yet they only believe in half-measures. Legalizing a drug such as marijuana is not going to change the world for the better.
We have a group of people that will celebrate all day long the day it happens, but we are still ignoring the rest of the people using substances for some reason.

Let me put it bluntly, drugs like "crystal meth" highly vary in effect depending on how it's been produced, and fact is, what one person might consider crystal meth, might be completely different to what someone else thinks of it, because they are receiving this drug from people that barely has any idea of what they're doing, and they fill their gaps in the recipe with tar (figuratively)

Is it not in everyone's best interest to have crime rates reduced by a significant margin?
Just like I ask of you who reads this with a critical mindset (which you should) I too need to keep reality of things in mind, because legalizing everything on the table won't keep gangsters away. They would most definitely respond by bringing in these drugs at a lower price for even more. Naturally, you can't ask a tiger to stop hunting just because you bring it food everyday.

Let's educate ourselves, yeah?
Thank you for reading if you managed to get through.


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Posted 9/13/15 , edited 9/13/15
Gettin' educated so you can get high on that kush ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
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Posted 9/13/15
I'm of the opinion that keeping drugs illegal does more harm than good. It doesn't make sense to put someone in prison because they ingested something and didn't harm anyone else. Someone struggling with addiction needs counseling and possibly medication, prison will only ruin their lives further for many reasons.

Pretty soon I'll be starting an internship where I'll be giving therapy to people coming through the criminal justice system who are dealing with substance abuse issues. I'm sure I'll be seeing first hand how the system is doing them just as much harm as the drugs they've been using.

There will always be people who want to use drugs, keeping them illegal just contributes to an increase in crime, crowding of prisons with non-violent offenders and ruining the lives of those with addictions. People who truly wish to stop using drugs will seek out the help they need. Those who don't will unfortunately have to deal with the consequences, it's not the governments job to be our parents and discipline us for using harmful substances.
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Posted 9/13/15 , edited 9/13/15
I think it all comes down to weighing the cost of prohibition, the likelihood and magnitude of harm, the feasibility of alternative actions, the likelihood and magnitude of the benefit, and the threat of future consequences.

The problem is that this requires an objective analysis of drugs as substances, not simply as "evil drugs." And many won't even consider this. I haven't the faintest clue why. They also fail to consider the effect of prohibition on underground markets and on the additional harm caused by unregulated manufacture. I still remember being a naive schoolkid who was learning about how awful all those drugs were when I was 8 years old. I ended up trying almost every drug you can think of and I'm still alive and doing fairly well. In fact, I don't think I would be who I am today if I didn't go through those eye-opening experiences.

Telling someone that "this is bad" and "that is good" doesn't seem to work well. You have to give them reasons. I'm not saying all drugs are good, but they all need an objective analysis rather than demonization.

It's my opinion that drugs should all be labeled the same way. There needs to be a database of ingredients, common and uncommon side effects, warnings and dosages, etc.

I don't necessarily think they should all be legal, but it seems that a lot of the prohibition costs are not worth the type and magnitude of harm prevented. How easy they are to get should certainly be regulated if there is a high potential for abuse and harm.
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Posted 9/13/15
No, not all. Near as I'm concerned, especially NOT Crocodile. Christ, I wish no one figured out how to make it. It rots flesh. Yikes. For the record, all those legal drugs with scary side effects don't sit well with me, either.
Posted 9/13/15 , edited 9/13/15

Someone forging paper to gain an edge financially is much more likely to receive a severe punishment than someone who committed rape and murder.


much less likely you mean lol.. But at least, with the few that result in conviction [only because they usually affect thers on a larger scale] you can guess why the few that do make it into the news receive sever punishment, now they're dealing with sympathy and amongst other human emotions that prompt the law to step up its game.

Like descould makes it plain, all drugs will not be legalised because the victims and the people that the press loves to get their view on will be pissed.

And what's that about educating the kids?? That's just like you're giving up so it's somebody else's problem and hell, if anything, that should be why you need it to stay illegal. What kind of wishy washy solution is that? No amount of telling to can prevent kids from making mistakes.
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Posted 9/13/15 , edited 9/15/15

Morbidhanson wrote:

I think it all comes down to weighing the cost of prohibition, the likelihood and magnitude of harm, the feasibility of alternative actions, the likelihood and magnitude of the benefit, and the threat of future consequences.

The problem is that this requires an objective analysis of drugs as substances, not simply as "evil drugs." And many won't even consider this. I haven't the faintest clue why. They also fail to consider the effect of prohibition on underground markets and on the additional harm caused by unregulated manufacture. I still remember being a naive schoolkid who was learning about how awful all those drugs were when I was 8 years old. I ended up trying almost every drug you can think of and I'm still alive and doing fairly well.

Telling someone that "this is bad" and "that is good" doesn't seem to work well. You have to give them reasons.

It's my opinion that drugs should all be labeled the same way. There needs to be a database of ingredients, common and uncommon side effects, warnings and dosages, etc.

I don't necessarily think they should all be legal, but it seems that a lot of the prohibition costs are not worth the type and magnitude of harm prevented.


Lol and people still abuse prescription drugs more than they do illegal cocaine, crack, heroine, and other opiates combined because it's easier to get a hold of. Alcohol, Tobacco, both are legal but still abused on a daily basis.

Legalizing them would only do more harm in the long run, people would be out there trying to get them more often because it's so readily available. Sure it would cut down on the cost of prohibitions but more people would end up in prison for crimes while on these drugs.

In reality just because its made legal doesn't mean people have the common sense to use them without being addicted to them or going out and committing crimes to get more cash to get their fix.

Only way I could see it working properly is fully legal in a heavily guarded area, free of charge, administered by professionals. But that'll never happen.
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Posted 9/13/15

aeb0717 wrote:

No, not all. Near as I'm concerned, especially NOT Crocodile. Christ, I wish no one figured out how to make it. It rots flesh. Yikes. For the record, all those legal drugs with scary side effects don't sit well with me, either.


Most hybridized "alternative" drugs, also known as "designer" drugs, have adverse effects. Krokodil is one of the worst in terms of physical damage, but crap like bath salts and nbomb can fuck you up badly as well.
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Posted 9/13/15
Haha I didnt know Cr had such intense topics haha. Well in my personal opinion I say that they should be all legal. If somebody wants to wrecklessly destroy themselves and shorten their life span why deny them?
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Posted 9/13/15 , edited 9/15/15
If anyone has ever actually witnessed how drugs can destroy family's. It's not hard to see why it's a horrible idea to legalize all of them
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Posted 9/13/15 , edited 9/13/15

Haruna-kai wrote:


Morbidhanson wrote:

I think it all comes down to weighing the cost of prohibition, the likelihood and magnitude of harm, the feasibility of alternative actions, the likelihood and magnitude of the benefit, and the threat of future consequences.

The problem is that this requires an objective analysis of drugs as substances, not simply as "evil drugs." And many won't even consider this. I haven't the faintest clue why. They also fail to consider the effect of prohibition on underground markets and on the additional harm caused by unregulated manufacture. I still remember being a naive schoolkid who was learning about how awful all those drugs were when I was 8 years old. I ended up trying almost every drug you can think of and I'm still alive and doing fairly well.

Telling someone that "this is bad" and "that is good" doesn't seem to work well. You have to give them reasons.

It's my opinion that drugs should all be labeled the same way. There needs to be a database of ingredients, common and uncommon side effects, warnings and dosages, etc.

I don't necessarily think they should all be legal, but it seems that a lot of the prohibition costs are not worth the type and magnitude of harm prevented.


Lol and people still abuse prescription drugs more than they do illegal cocaine, crack, heroine, and other opiates combined because it's easier to get a hold of. Alcohol, Tobacco, both are legal but still abused on a daily basis.

Legalizing them would only do more harm in the long run, people would be out there trying to get them more often because it's so readily available. Sure it would cut down on the cost of prohibitions but more people would end up in prison for crimes while on these drugs.

In reality just because its made legal doesn't mean people have the common sense to use them without being addicted to them or going out and committing crimes to get more cash to get their fix.

Only way I could see it working properly is fully legal in a heavily guarded area, free of charge, administered by professionals. But that'll never happen.


Yes, this is true. But an objective analysis of drugs means teaching people about their effects in an objective manner. It is my belief that giving them reasons and proof without screaming bloody murder whenever drugs are mentioned will get people to act a little more rationally. It means giving them actual facts rather than opinions colored by unhealthy degrees of bias. If it is known that they are getting facts, they have less reason to doubt what they hear than if they are simply given extreme opinions.

I'm not too sure it will "never happen" since I can't predict the future that way, but the current system is certainly problematic and we will have to keep dealing with the same issues if we don't attempt a fix. The kind of fix and the method of fixing can reasonably vary.
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Posted 9/13/15 , edited 9/13/15
A problem about legalising drugs is that if you let private corporations take control of them, there isn't much moral obligation in capitalism, the end-game is to make as much profit as possible. You just need to look at some of the power that the big tobacco corps have, and the fucked up way they conduct business (suing countries that try to introduce anti-smoking legislation) to see how much of a negative impact this could have on the health of a society.

The only way of doing it for me would that the sale and production of the drugs would have to be state regulated to the extent that - even with tobacco now you see this - there would be such a black market for them that a lot of the benefits for legalising would be lost.
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Posted 9/13/15
True I have seen it firsthand, sadly though legal or not people are still able to get ahold of that garbage
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Posted 9/13/15
Hard to say. I believe in Darwinism, and that allowing people to make the choice is good, idiots die faster. However some of these knuckle heads will have a bunch of messed up children that will have to be taken care of. They may also hurt others during their implosion. I do believe in ultimate freedoms, therefore when they get ready to implode or they are getting ready to mess up their kids, then its my freedom to wack em upside the head, and imprison them. Yeah, you can make them legal, however the punishment for negative actions must also be raised.
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Posted 9/13/15 , edited 9/15/15
See, I'm not exactly against stuff like weed, for example, since I don't think it's as harmful as other drugs. There are less ties to chaos and crime in connection with weed, however, other drugs have been consistently linked with violent and destructive behavior, namely illegal behavior, and the drug market itself is exceedingly dangerous and competitive. Should all drugs be legalized, domestically, internationally, or even within certain cities or states, crime rates would skyrocket significantly. And that is the main problem here.

As for moral boundaries I have no problem with man destroying himself, but as another has mentioned in this thread, drugs can destroy entire families. Drugs can destroy interpersonal relationships. Addictive ones, especially heroine, are noted for this. Should children have to suffer at the expense of legalization? I don't think so.

We already sell enough "poisonous" substances legally. Alcohol. Cigarettes. Pills. We need not contribute to the habits of those who are already addicted, and we need not addict more people. We also need not make the non addicts suffer in this hypothetical situation. A world where all drugs are legal is a dystopic one no matter how you examine it, and no one should have to suffer. People still do these illegal drugs regardless, so why should we legalize them? It's not like legalizing them will curb their addiction, if anything, it'll worsen it. Addicts need help, not encouragement.
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