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Post Reply Should anime/manga shift more toward being intellectual?
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19 / F / Don't Flirt With Me
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Posted 9/14/15
I think their should be both. When I'm feeling down I like to watch stuff that involves absolutely no thought process to entertain me. On the other hand of of my favorite manga have been very psychology based and rely on deep emotions within human nature. For example my favorite manga (its really a manhwa) is Holyland and its all about overcoming fear and losing yourself. Another one is The Breaker (not New Waves) the breaker is very though provoking and it makes you deeply question how thin the line is between what is good and what is evil.
Although I mostly like things that require thought, I believe that there has to be a mixture of everything to put the amazing shows, either something that involves more basic human nature or a riveting plot, into perspective.
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26 / M / In a dumpster wit...
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Posted 9/14/15 , edited 9/14/15

eragon2890 wrote:


TheKaiserKnight wrote:

Not that I disagree, but there's probably a lot of people who'd argue that shit like this...



Is more intellectual than shit like this...



Sometimes I don't even know if they ever passed grade school and learned about why they call it being intellectual. It requires you to turn your brain on. Not sit back and drink chocolate milk while possibly "too young for you" girls are doing random perverted stuff together or doing stupid random stuff together...


Hey, don't insult yuru yuri! It's one of my favorite series, and me (and all my friends and 90% of otaku's/crunchy subscribers/people who's bussiness keeps this site in existence) are really looking forward to the new season! I am so happy they made a third :3

I love yuru yuri, can't wait for more of the awesome crazy kawaii madness!

I love gits and psycho pass and such too, but moeblobs are also awesome , so I really really love shows like gochuumon, oreimo, Yuru yuri (!!), lucky star etc. too. Moeblobs are awesome! Happy, energetic, crazy, funny, cute girls, sometimes with cat ears, what more do you want~

So they better not stop making those type of shows. If that would be everything I would get bored too, but there are still quite a few more serious shows such as psycho pass, code geass, arslan, fma etc :)

But if crunchyroll would decide on purpose to not stream moeblobs and such anymore then I'd dump them, go watch on an "alternative streaming site' , probably joined by the majority of the userbase, and they'd be out of business in a month.

I do agree they should show all sorts of anime tough. I also love a show which makes me think. So I want both. A lot of both. And I especially love mecha/sci-fi But also a good ecchi harem...

------------------

Just look at the comments here: http://www.crunchyroll.com/anime-news/2015/09/12/video-latest-valkyrie-drive-mermaid-anime-preview-posted Vast majority of people here like these shows. D: so it's good they are also made :)

I am personally really looking forward to both yuru yuri and valkyrie drive mermaid :D


That doesn't disprove my point...


TheKaiserKnight wrote:



xCrimsonEXWhileI wouldn't call Yuru Yuri per se intellectual, I would say its entertaining and compared to some anime out there extremely tame xD I would say there's a place for each just would like for the ratio to shift towards a point where those stories that do make you think aren't as over-eclipsed.


My point being that things like those slice of life's are not meant to be considered intellectual or even requiring brain power to understand beyond who's who in the show, what they want, but not their motivations past the most basic implications of perversion and what not.

Hell Lucky Star was more intellectual than Yuru Yuri. If you wanna watch something about lesbian loli's doing random or random perverted things, go right ahead. I just don't need people like that demanding that I respect their tastes in the way they want me to by demanding that I seriously think of them as being worth an intellectual debate on the flaws and pro's of a work that required something like an understanding on psychology and other such forms of mental cases that can lead to an understanding on human nature in order to even create. I.E Batman the Animated Series and other such stuff from said franchise.
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28 / M / USA! USA! USA!
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Posted 9/14/15
Yeah, there should be.


The problem is, it really isn't what the modern market wants.


And that is due to the market becoming otaku.


However, as studios realize the current model is not tenable, they are starting to recognize the importance of the global market.


This is where we as fans can help create better series, by voting with out wallets, getting the word out about great series, etc.


Already some studios are able to get work funded through Western crowdsourcing, so we in the West are already showing we can help fund the things we want to watch no differently than otaku.
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31 / M / The Abyss of Time
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Posted 9/14/15 , edited 9/26/15

Voc666IV wrote:

Put away your elitist accusations card, I'm far from being elitist. Going by your logic no medium ever should be seen or praised as anything because they all take idea or themes and make entertaining things revolving around them. The fact that you don't see S;G or GitS franchise as being intellectual again reflects back on you, the series have been praised and are generally held in high regard for their intelligent topics (not to mention GitS actually has one of the best female leads in anime). Not to mention they are far far far more intellectual than a show that aims to show as much T&A as it can get away with.



Insomnist wrote:



Meh, I've seen worse xD as for the last part: I try to give even the internet the benefit of the doubt


BlazingRagnarok wrote:


I've actually just started Rokka no Yuusha and liking it so far, and by some standards the females are well dressed. :D


sonic720 wrote:



I think there's certain things which can be seen as not 'intellectual'. For instance trying to take every opportunity to slip in service shots or having too much of a focus on gore.


kdroberts wrote:

You can't even understand anime as it is, Crimson. Please don't make it harder for yourself.


I understand it just fine. Some people don't seem to understand that there's multiple views/perspectives on series and that their view isn't per se the right one, then they try to say how anyone not within their opinion doesn't get it. And besides challenging oneself is a way to improve oneself.
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Posted 9/14/15
There's a lot of old anime that's intellectual, and some newer anime that's intellectual too.

Personally, I'd like well written stories that would qualify as "intellectual" without overly wordy or obscurantist philosophizing that seems predominant in "intellectual" anime.
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31 / M / The Abyss of Time
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Posted 9/14/15 , edited 9/15/15

maxgale wrote:



I would also say its due to people thinking certain things (sex, gore, and violence being the big ones) equate to 'mature' thus wanting them, when they don't per se. Not sure if that's part of what you meant by 'becoming otaku'.

Fortunately some of the big ones are already well praised and known. And really I'm not trying to literally shift the medium, more gauging where people stand.


cyberfaust wrote:

There's a lot of old anime that's intellectual, and some newer anime that's intellectual too.

Personally, I'd like well written stories that would qualify as "intellectual" without overly wordy or obscurantist philosophizing that seems predominant in "intellectual" anime.


I would agree that one of the negative aspects of some series is they can get complicated and hard to follow, along with wordy. I actually think that one area anime shines as a teaching instrument in comparison to books and professors (for people wanting a basic idea to stand on) is that it can create interesting stories and explain (and show) complex things in easier to understand ways to get people interested. Like imo Steins;Gate did for multi-dimension time theory, it takes a complex idea and puts it into a somewhat easier to understand medium (and I love it for doing that since I much prefer that theory on time travel over the older theory and would love for more people to know of it). I agree with you on keeping things from getting too complex cause then it defeats a benefit of the medium.
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Posted 9/15/15 , edited 9/26/15

xCrimsonEX wrote:

After going through a few stories (one of which was Spec Ops: The Line) and after reading a specific quote:


I don't agree making sex become casual is a way of "maturing" society. Sex is an animalistic part of humans after all. I prefer we cultivate our brainy part instead. Make intelligent shows, not sex-oriented shows.
it made me think and this thread is the result.

Should anime shift away from sex appeal and more toward things like prejudice/discrimination, what it means to be human, philosophies, ideologies, space exploration, deep relationships (emotion level not b.s. sex level), "war is hell", social inequality, multi-dimension theories , and etc. In other words moving closer to shows like: Ghost in the Shell franchise, Psycho Pass, Steins;Gate, Zetsuen no Tempest, live-action tv-wise Mr. Robot, and game-wise Spec Ops: The Line (amongst many others). Basically shifting the focus from Hugh Hefner to Neil Degrasse Tyson in a sense.

I personally think that it should, while keeping the other side of the spectrum satisfied as well. We should have anime that make us want to become more intelligent and even can teach us about certain concepts.

Side question: Do you think society itself would be better shifting towards intelligence over libido?

Again personally I say yes, since our libido is a primitive instinct that won't lead to our future survival like striving to find solutions to issues via intellect advancing would. We shouldn't revert to animals but strive to evolve to something even greater.


For me? In a word: No.

The first couple of times you see something really good and thought provoking it blows your mind. After fifteen years I find that very hard to do and many thing intellectual when they aren't changing your world view forever are pretty dull if you've not disregarded the philosophy... but just aren't getting the same kick out of it like you used to. I don't know that I've "considered everything" but I sure have considered quite a lot, and prefer to bake it myself rather the adopt it externally. Not to mention how hard it is to reproduce something "intellectual" and make it actually good enough to reach that point.

More to point it simply isn't what I look for in entertainment, which is more about escapism. I dare say that goes for most of us. People don't like your "popcorn faire" because they are dumb and don't understand anything not blowing up or sexy... its just not as fun and that's what entertainment is about.

Oh and I find the benefits of rejecting sex in entertainment highly overrated. Fair bit of the most mindblowing stuff I've encountered is full of it. Not that I think that it is somehow required, more like the connection itself doesn't really exist. Plenty of things use it as a crutch in place of decent stories maybe... but that just means they don't have much to begin with period so removing the sex would leave just nothing. Course all you want is some sexual excitement then that's no skin off my neck since this isn't a zero sum game.


TheKaiserKnight wrote:
That doesn't disprove my point...


Just FYI your choice of pictures supports the girls I know nothing of but look reasonably interesting over... ahem... "MY PARENTS ARE DEAD: The Picture"

So you didn't do yourself any favors there with the screaming wangst, I hope it was just some algorithm mistake by google image search. Though even the good stuff isn't really the best of western comics by a long shot.
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22 / M / Norway
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Posted 9/15/15
yes.
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23 / M / UK
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Posted 9/15/15 , edited 9/15/15

xCrimsonEX wrote:

Put away your elitist accusations card, I'm far from being elitist. Going by your logic no medium ever should be seen or praised as anything because they all take idea or themes and make entertaining things revolving around them. The fact that you don't see S;G or GitS franchise as being intellectual again reflects back on you, the series have been praised and are generally held in high regard for their intelligent topics (not to mention GitS actually has one of the best female leads in anime). Not to mention they are far far far more intellectual than a show that aims to show as much T&A as it can get away with.


*I think anime should be intellectual*
*anime isn't intellectual mate*
*you've obviously not seen much anime then*
How is that not being an elitist?


I have never said that Steins Gate or Ghost in the Shell should not be praised. In fact, I have stated that both shows were really good and I would recommend both of them if I was asked for suggestions. You say that not seeing Stiens Gate and Ghost in the Shell as intellectual reflects back on me, well, you are correct. I recognise and understand that having an intellectual topic in a show does not make said show intellectual especially if the topic is explained in a very simplistic way. I (and many people on this planet) have talked about topics that would be considered by some to be intellectual or highbrow however, that does not that make me an intellectual.

Also, being more intellectual than a T&A anime does not make it intellectual; it’s like calling yourself an athlete because you can outrun a morbidly obese person.


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31 / M / The Abyss of Time
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Posted 9/15/15 , edited 9/15/15

Voc666IV wrote:


I'm not putting myself above anyone (elitism), I'm making an observation based on your views and what you've presented. In other words based on what you've stated and how you don't see anime as intellectual or capable of it, then either a) your scope of anime is limited (thus the "you obviously haven't seen much anime" or b) you're one of the types that thinks certain mediums are so to speak 'just for kids' and can't achieve a level rivaling the other mediums. (A) is workable and less of an annoyance for me since its from naivete; (B) is you underestimating the medium and what it can and has done (much like certain people scoff at videogames being art forms when some of their stories rival films) which is from a conscious want to insult the medium as if its not up to the other mediums. Do I think of myself as more intellectual than you/everyone else (what would be elitist on my part)? No, I do have a different perspective and respect for the medium than you.

They were praised because of the intelligent concepts in them, thus showing that they are intellectual -sigh- You don't have to throw scientific papers at people in anime form to be intelligent/intellectual. Causing someone to think or challenging concepts is what I would put into the category of intellectual, and both of which S;G and GitS do. I would actually say that throwing said scientific papers at someone (which GitS in a way does at times) will only cause the topic to go over people's head thus trying to approach it more simplistically while maintaining the core idea is the way to go. I respect intellectuals, whether I'd be categorized as one is anyone's guess but I don't really care.

No, being more intelligent than T&A anime doesn't mean much, however it gives a point to aim away from and shows what the medium is capable of. Instead of taking your position that the medium isn't capable of reaching intelligent works, I point to those that show that it actually can.

In the ideal we'd get 3 shows that appeal to sex appeal and more for enjoyment and 3 shows for thought provocation in the line of GitS:SAC (since to me SAC took what the movie did and polished it even further) or Steins;Gate. Instead of what we have now which is 5 shows that appeal to sex appeal and 1 that speaks to intelligence.
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Posted 9/15/15
I think there is enough room for having 'smart' anime and shows where I can just sit back and watch for fun without having to question existence and the concepts of good and evil and how it isn't so black and white.
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31 / M / The Abyss of Time
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Posted 9/15/15

Rito2Ru wrote:

I think there is enough room for having 'smart' anime and shows where I can just sit back and watch for fun without having to question existence and the concepts of good and evil and how it isn't so black and white.


Exactly what I was saying xD
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24 / M / Philippines
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Posted 9/16/15
Steins;Gate and GITS are just as "intellectual" as ... Vsauce, ViHart, or Numberphile videos in YouTube. Teenage newbs who are obviously new to anime will see shows like Attack of Titan, Steins;Gate and GITS as "intellectual", when in fact these intellectual topics have been dealt with in fiction many times. These shows did not brought anything new to the table. Might as well call garbage shows like Madoka "intelligent" since the writer just happened to shove the word "entropy" in its viewer's faces, right?

Expecting "intelligence" in children's cartoon is just asking too much. Seriously.
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36 / M / Planet Sanno
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Posted 9/16/15
(Do I reply to this or spend the rest of the week watching it circle the bowl?)
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39 / Inside your compu...
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Posted 9/16/15
If it has to be intellectual, do it right like Utena tv series instead of boring pretentious stuff like Ergo Proxy
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