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Post Reply Who even WANTS Trump?
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Posted 9/16/15 , edited 9/16/15

sundin13 wrote:

I gotta say, I just finished watching the GOP debate (unfortunately I only saw the last half an hour because I forgot it was on), but I saw a ton of empty faffing about the middle and lower classes. These individuals are so vocal about how they are looking out for the little guy, but then they turn around and propose a flat tax system which severely hurts the lower class while helping the upper class. So much of these empty words are thrown around that it feels like they are just chumming the waters with buzzwords to try to catch the religious lower class fools who don't look into the words that are actually being spoken.

The subject of income inequality has been addressed by essentially just saying "we'll make the rich richer and everything will work out in the end". Quite frankly, it is bullshit. I do hope they addressed these issues in more detail earlier in the debate so I can watch them later but my goodness, I am almost surprised that they can say these things with a straight face.


I watched the full debate and it lasted 3 hours. I didn't think it'd last that long so now I'm leaving to go eat. But before I go, I just wanted to address what you said since you didn't get to see most of the debate.

There was a point somewhere during the middle that Rand Paul said something similar to what you're saying and even called out Jeb Bush for his hypocrisy. It was when they were on the subject of marijuana and other drugs. Rich kids like Jeb got to smoke all they wanted and Jeb never got in trouble. Poor kids, mainly minorities like blacks, get severe punishments for the exact same actions. Jeb said that he wants to continue this war on drugs and be strict towards even non-violent drug offenders, and it's common knowledge now how these drug laws easily target minorities. Jeb wants to punish these minorities for something a rich white kid like himself was never punished for and he sees no issue with that.

I'll stop there since the discussion shifted from poor vs. rich recreational smokers to medical marijuana after that.


Also, as far as flat tax is concerned, Rand Paul was the earliest candidate to propose a flax tax plan with a rate of about 14.5%. His plan also calls for removing the tax cuts that the wealthy are getting. Basically, the rich would be paying about the same they do now, so they shouldn't be complaining too much. Meanwhile, the middle and poor classes would be paying less than they do now, which is great and should make us very happy. Also, those who make less than a certain amount (I think it's $20,000 but I forgot. I'll check later) don't have to pay taxes.
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23 / M / Kaguya's Panties
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Posted 9/16/15
Your country is fucked. Then again, so is ours.
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22 / M / AZ
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Posted 9/16/15 , edited 9/16/15
They all suck honestly...Pick your poison.

Everyone knows im the REAL candidate.
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Posted 9/16/15 , edited 9/16/15

PhantomGundam wrote:

I watched the full debate and it lasted 3 hours. I didn't think it'd last that long so now I'm leaving to go eat. But before I go, I just wanted to address what you said since you didn't get to see most of the debate.

There was a point somewhere during the middle that Rand Paul said something similar to what you're saying and even called out Jeb Bush for his hypocrisy. It was when they were on the subject of marijuana and other drugs. Rich kids like Jeb got to smoke all they wanted and Jeb never got in trouble. Poor kids, mainly minorities like blacks, get severe punishments for the exact same actions. Jeb said that he wants to continue this war on drugs and be strict towards even non-violent drug offenders, and it's common knowledge now how these drug laws easily target minorities. Jeb wants to punish these minorities for something a rich white kid like himself was never punished for and he sees no issue with that.

I'll stop there since the discussion shifted from poor vs. rich recreational smokers to medical marijuana after that.


Rand Paul seems scrappy and yet he often gets that across in a very whiny sounding way. I did see some of his statements on Marijuana and while I am in favor of legalizing recreation weed, the way he got his point across was by repeating the same exact statement (you will be putting parents of diseased kids in jail) over and over again despite it being false (especially after Christie spoke to the fact that his policy did not jail for the first offense).

Its so easy to bite back against virtually all of their claims that Marijuana is a gateway drug by simply speaking about how there is no conclusive evidence to that assertion and that legalizing will take away all the potential power weed has as a gateway by taking the criminal aspect out of it, and the guys you are now buying weed from wont have some heroin that they are trying to push on you too (is it obvious that I've never smoked weed? Its probably obvious...).

I do like how willing Paul is to go against his fellow Republicans (although I'd have to do a lot more digging to see if I liked his politics), but he just doesn't have the debating power to make him actually look good coming out of these spats (and thats just what they are when you don't bring good facts to the table).

However, this is a good point. Pretty much every candidate spoke about the over-inflated prison population and how we need to do more to fight against drugs, but when it came down to how they would ensure that they are helping people, most of them floundered...

EDIT:


Also, as far as flat tax is concerned, Rand Paul was the earliest candidate to propose a flax tax plan with a rate of about 14.5%. His plan also calls for removing the tax cuts that the wealthy are getting. Basically, the rich would be paying about the same they do now, so they shouldn't be complaining too much. Meanwhile, the middle and poor classes would be paying less than they do now, which is great and should make us very happy. Also, those who make less than a certain amount (I think it's $20,000 but I forgot. I'll check later) don't have to pay taxes


Like in the Forbes comment I posted earlier, the huge decrease in percentage for the wealthy will likely do a lot more than removing the deductions (and that is assuming that the deductions are actually removed which is fairly unlikely). The poor on the other hand will be paying about the same or more percentage-wise (depending on what the final percent comes too) while losing the deductions (again, assuming that the deductions are actually lost). It really does seem like it benefits the rich and at best does nothing to the poor (although total exemption for those under $20k earnings is an interesting idea but also it is not a true flat tax).

I am in favor of a pretty big reform of the tax code, but I don't see any way in which a flat tax would be better than a scaling system at accomplishing these goals.
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Posted 9/16/15


Prevent them from receiving benefits.
Prevent them from getting licenses.
Prevent them from sending money out of the country.
Prevent them from attending our schools.
Prevent them from working.
Send them home immediately if the are arrested for any reason, and their families with them.
Turn them around at the border. Do not feed them or offer aid of any kind.
Require e-verify and seize the businesses of those who hire them.
No Federal payments to "sanctuary" cities and states.

They'll leave.

While I agree that illegal immigration is a bad thing, I don't think it's as big a problem as it's made out to be. Honestly, I think people like to use illegal immigrants as an easy scapegoat for problems that are much more complex, and require a great deal of time, effort and will to fix.

With that said, here's what I think of your list:

Prevent them from receiving benefits.
Illegals don't receive benefits. They can't receive medicare, medicaid, social security, unemployment benefits, FAFSA, disability, welfare or pretty much any sort of payment from the government. They are still required to file and pay taxes, and surprisingly many do.

Prevent them from getting licenses.
Illegals can't get licenses either. Many states require proof of legal status before they'll issue a license. Having a SSN counts as proof, since you need to be a citizen or have a green card in order to get a SSN.

Prevent them from sending money out of the country.
Practically infeasible. We can hardly get major companies to pay taxes on the trillions of dollars they stash in overseas accounts, what makes you think we can stop all these financials institutions and other 3rd party entities from sending money out the country?

Prevent them from attending our schools.
Feasible, and I think there are some school districts that do this, but do you really want a bunch of school age kids running around with nothing to do during the day?

Prevent them from working.
Also, practically infeasible. There are laws already on the books that make it a crime to employ illegal immigrants. The problem is enforcement. Most illegals are hired by individuals or small businesses, most who don't have the means to verify the legal status of hires, especially considering how easy it is to get a fake ID.

Send them home immediately if the are arrested for any reason, and their families with them.
They already do this... deporting families is a stickier issue, especially if there are minors involved, but it does happen.

Turn them around at the border. Do not feed them or offer aid of any kind.
Once again, we already do this. You're making an assumption that all or most of the illegals crossed the border through some nefarious means like jumping the fence in the middle of the night, coming through a tunnel under the "border", or packed into a van operated by a coyote. While these things do happen, they only account for a very small portion of illegals. Most illegals actually enter the country legally, usually with a travel, student or temp work visa. They simply overstay their visas and become "illegal" immigrants. The largest group of illegals actually come from China, not South America, so "crossing the border" is more figurative than literal.

Require e-verify and seize the businesses of those who hire them.
Already addressed why this is practically infeasible. Also, seizing businesses simply because they hired an illegal is hugely overstepping the boundaries of the government.

No Federal payments to "sanctuary" cities and states.
This is what I would call: burning down your house to kill a spider. You're proposing denial of funding for critical services for millions of people, because some cities or states want to show a bit of leniency to maybe a few thousand illegals...

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Posted 9/16/15

Tehnery wrote:

You cant stump the trump

No one wants trump the goddamn election is starting too a be a joke now


That awkward moment when everyone decides to vote for a celebrity. Not this time though.
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Posted 9/16/15

stoner789 wrote:


Tehnery wrote:

You cant stump the trump

No one wants trump the goddamn election is starting too a be a joke now


That awkward moment when everyone decides to vote for a celebrity. Not this time though.


Its never the time to vote for a celebrity in the presidential election
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Posted 9/16/15

Tehnery wrote:

Its never the time to vote for a celebrity in the presidential election


...Reagan?
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Posted 9/16/15 , edited 9/16/15

sundin13 wrote:


Tehnery wrote:

Its never the time to vote for a celebrity in the presidential election


...Reagan?


I mean he was ok I guess
Posted 9/16/15 , edited 10/22/15

Tehnery wrote:


Its never the time to vote for a celebrity in the presidential election





Kanye?!???!?
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Posted 9/16/15

Tehnery wrote:


sundin13 wrote:


Tehnery wrote:

Its never the time to vote for a celebrity in the presidential election


...Reagan?


I mean he was ok I guess


The Republicans just spent three hours (figuratively) jerking it over his corpse (is he dead? I'm just going to assume that he is dead).
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Posted 9/16/15

haikinka wrote:


Tehnery wrote:


Its never the time to vote for a celebrity in the presidential election





Kanye?!???!?


I was just think about kayne 2020 when i putting that down...wtf
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Posted 9/16/15
Well... I won't argue with you other than to say, it is all the loopholes that gets the rich out of paying taxes (or even making money off of the system).

This proposes to close it. Which means the rich will be paying more. Which means they can lower the flat tax rate to reflect the difference in revenue.

You don't want to believe that? Fine. But I have seen how the wealthy do their taxes. It's kind of sickening.
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Posted 9/16/15 , edited 10/22/15

sundin13 wrote:

The Republicans just spent three hours (figuratively) jerking it over his corpse (is he dead? I'm just going to assume that he is dead).


That's because Reagan made shit right. The booming nineties that Bill Clinton got credit for was a direct result of his policies.

BUT... what do I know?
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22 / M / sleep
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Posted 9/16/15
Publicity is overpowered for trump.
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