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Post Reply What's up with American Christians and imagined persecution?
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27 / M / Ark-La-Tex
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Posted 9/21/15
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49 / F / Center of the Uni...
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Posted 9/21/15
You're not having it all you're own way.
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36 / M / US
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Posted 9/21/15 , edited 9/21/15
The way this propaganda works is you have to create the view that you are being prosecuted by a group. You keep saying it and eventually a sizable population will believe it despite any facts or info provided.

Everyone does it, its just too bad most people don't spend the time to learn the facts and just believe the propaganda.
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46 / M / Between yesterday...
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Posted 9/21/15
It is the miss perceived belief that this country is a Christian nation and they should be allowed to have the theocracy they wish for. Now of course they like to play the victim so they can make noise about how we are taking their rights away from them At no time is this true we aren't taking anyones rights away we are simply staying true to the Constitution which is the founding document for this nation.

Now as for that document I will challenge any person to find within it a section or amendment that calls out what religion this nation should be. You will find it lacking since there isn't one there are; however sections that actually call out against having a national religion and forbid any such laws allowing for them. No really the section of the Constitution that says we are a Christian nation please I want to read it.

Now the reason this bit is important is to be a Christian nation or for that matter a nation of any religion you would require one of two things to be a theocracy or a monarchy in both cases you have religion confide within the law of the land. We are neither of this and as I have stated time and time again this is based off the supreme law of the land from which all powers and laws are created the Constitution.

Don't believe me here are the folks reporting on this lie and the fact they have dug up proving it is a lie. Of course you can claim it is all false and misleading but reality as I am oft to say has a liberal bias. So yeah basically it is sour grapes they aren't getting their way because the laws are against them.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/15/opinion/sunday/a-christian-nation-since-when.html?_r=0

http://infidels.org/library/modern/farrell_till/myth.html

http://mythopedia.mediamatters.org/myths/america-is-a-christian-nation

A few facts

Congress prayer in the morning was added in 1942 before that there wasn't an morning prayer.

In god we trust was added in the 1956 pushed for as part of the red scare. The motto of the nation is still "E Prubus Unum" which means "Out of many one"

Under god was added in 1957 also as part of fighting the red scare. Both of these were pushed by Billy Graham you hav to wonder how much money he got for these two gems.

Any belief that the personal beliefs of the founders or any politician invoking god making us a Christian nation is a false argument and invalid. The only thing you can draw from is the document that founded our country and that is the Constitution. As for the Declaration of Independences it does not invoke God it invokes in the diest ideology the Creator and this is not the founding document of our nation it is the letter of intent to break away from England and the middle figure to King George. The first founding document was the Articles of confederation which was replaced by the Constitution which I challenge any person to find the religion we are supposed to follow since it is by law that you create a Christian or Muslim nation not by belief.
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27 / M / TX
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Posted 9/21/15

geauxtigers1989 wrote:


This is the only article you presented that I would agree with. Obama done a lot for social justice which is fine. Government and religion doesn't mix so it's fine for the government to remain neutral on religious issues. Except for that whole Contraception Mandate being stuck down again by the courts yet he still trying to push it on religious companies.
http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/us/2015/September/Obamacare-Contraception-Mandate-Struck-Down-Again/



O'reilly has a point come out against anything the left supports and you're a racist bible thumping bigot. I see people with religious views called that all the time. What's ironic is the liberals are supposedly the tolerant ones.





What does this have to do with your topic? Has nothing to do with Christians.



Seriously, what gives? We make up 70% of the U.S population and almost the entirety of the national government, but we're somehow being persecuted? I don't get it.


Being anti-religious is the progressive thing to do now a days.
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Posted 9/21/15
Hey! Festivus poles are serious issues
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21 / M / Chicago, Illinois
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Posted 9/21/15 , edited 9/21/15
Every day 5 Christians are martyred. Religion is a global organization, not a national one. Just because the US houses many religious folk doesn't mean the rest of the world doesn't.

All I want to know is why people complain about Christians and Jews but not Muslims... not saying we should, but that's all you kind of people complain about.
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28 / M / USA! USA! USA!
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Posted 9/21/15
Apart from the movement to strip them of First Amendment rights, I don't know.
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21 / M / United States
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Posted 9/21/15
People in a majority want to act like they're an oppressed minority to reaffirm their faith. It's pretty disgusting to see a group that consists of roughly 80% of the country act like they are the victims of some national indignation when you won't even get elected to a public office if you say that you are an atheist.
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35 / M
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Posted 9/21/15
I think people are confusing conservatives with Christians. Which is kind of persecuting the Christians by proxy?

Liberalism went into high gear the last two or three years, and got REEEEAAAALLLY crazy. (thanks Tumblr. And Twitter. And social media in general) Not saying conservatism hasn't either. (the internet has become quite the echo chamber, especially in social media, which probably has resulted, as science seems to predict, an increasing amount of extremism).

The stereotype of conservatives is that they are for the most part: Self interested. Anti-government. In favor of business and it's practices (regardless of how diabolical they may be). Xenophobic. Anti-science. Anti-gay. Pro-life. For "traditional family values".... And there's a lot of them that are Evangelical Christians. Especially the set of conservatives that tend to argue using the bible for those last 4 viewpoints.


But Evangelical Christians are just one of many, many many sects of Christianity. They do not represent the whole. And the conservative evangelicals are just a portion of all evangelicals.

AND this is coming off of 4-5 years of Christians being ousted from science by the likes of Richard Dawkins and the radical atheist movement (which, I am not defending the whole intelligent design argument, but what started out as a reaction against that escalated to a vehement response saying that religion, or even people with strong religious beliefs have no place in science. Regardless of what field. And some took that to the point that some scientists should be ousted or not hired because they had religious beliefs.) And the worst part of it was, it wasn't the Islamic religion that was called out, (though they had problems enough thanks to 9/11... WHICH WILL NEVER STOP BEING REHASHED... #pleasestopbringingupdecadesoldhistorylikeitwasyesterday ) It wasn't Buddhists. It wasn't Hindus. It was squarely facing off against Christians. (and probably because this IS a Christian nation. It's not Christian in its laws or judicial system, but it is culturally, as Christianity has been, only up until recently, overwhelmingly the most widely practiced religion with its many sects in this country.)

So yeah. I believe Christians have been unfairly persecuted and ostracized in the US.

What worries me is that the more liberal elements in this country have had WAAAAAAY too many "wins" with its social justice lately (but unfortunately can't get the shit that matters done, like say... taxing the wealthy. Raising minimum wage. National health care. Reforming banking even further and taking it out of the retail industry. Laws and reform to prevent shit like THIS from happening: http://www.rawstory.com/2015/09/ex-hedge-funder-buys-rights-aids-drug-and-raises-price-from-13-50-to-750-per-pill/ ). That in turn is marginalizing conservatism, and, by proxy I suppose, Christianity. And the more ostracized a group is the more likely it is to react in a violently negative manner.
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27 / M / Ark-La-Tex
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Posted 9/21/15 , edited 9/21/15

J-POP187 wrote:





1. O'reilly has a point come out against anything the left supports and you're a racist bible thumping bigot. I see people with religious views called that all the time. What's ironic is the liberals are supposedly the tolerant ones.





2. What does this have to do with your topic? Has nothing to do with Christians.




1. I have yet to see a non-hyperbolized example of that.

2. From the article:

Trump released a statement to The Washington Post defending his comments.

"The media wants to make this issue about Obama," he told the Post. "The bigger issue is that Obama is waging a war against Christians in this country. Their religious liberty is at stake."
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46 / M / Between yesterday...
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Posted 9/21/15

maxgale wrote:

Apart from the movement to strip them of First Amendment rights, I don't know.


Please find real proof your first amendment rights are under attack if you point to Kim Davis that is a bad example by the simple fact she is required by law to be neutral the same first amendment you are so happy to say is under attack. You have the right to worship as you wish and i encourage you to do so. What you do not have the right to do is force others to your belief by using the government to do so. So again please find in law where it states we are a Christian nation?

The belief and it is belief we are a Christian nation is a lie a false idea pushed by big business in the 30s and 40s the history of this is there if you look for it. The problem is folks keep buying the big lie that because the founders were Christian they intended us to be a Christian nation that is patently false since the law they wrote the Constitution clearly states we are not. Again the Deceleration of Independences is not the law of the land that would be the Constitution which is what all laws a based off of.

So please provide real proof of your statement you will find that it is just ginned up hype from talking heads and there is no real proof.

Oh by the way if you are in the military the UCMJ forbids pushing religion because it violates the first amendment so toss those cases as well. I know there are out there some one always pushes it and gets tossed out every couple of years.

Also to be a Christian nation it has to codified by law you can not have a Christian nation with a secular government those are two completing principles. The first is precluded by the second and isn't allowed no really look up what it means to have a secular government you will be shocked.

So answer two question

Are you allowed to worship where and how you wish? If the answer is yes your first amendment rights aren't under attack. No really you're rights are perfectly safe and I will happily protect them to make sure you can continue to worship as you wish.

Why do you believe you first amendment rights are under attack? If it is because you believe you should be allowed to push your beliefs onto the rest of the nation please see the first amendment and understand it precludes you from this behavior. I will fight you tooth and nail if you think you can make this a theocracy which is what a Christian nation really is.

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44 / M / WA
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Posted 9/21/15 , edited 9/22/15

gvblackmoon wrote:


America has always been a Christian nation that did not want a theocratic government, who's Christians have never wanted a theocratic government - there is not religious test to serve in government. Court decisions, writings by the Founders, early court cases, notes on the constitution, the many versions preceding the adopted 1st amendment, etc. clearly testify to this fact. The principle of "Christian nation, secular government" has existed from the beginning of this republic with no contradiction - the Founders recognized what was already here. It is a canard to require such a reference in the constitution or to claim it as an "invention of big business". It is not that it was "founded" a Christian nation - it already was.

"I am sure that never was a people, who had more reason to acknowledge a Divine interposition in their affairs, than those of the United States; and I should be pained to believe that they have forgotten that agency, which was to often manifested during our Revolution, or that they failed to consider the omnipotence of that God who is alone able to protect them." - President George Washington March 11, 1792.

May 1st 1789 congress elected the Dutch Reformed minster in New York City William Linn as chaplain appropriating $500 for his salary; Reverend Bishop Samuel Provost was elected in the Senate - prayers have opened both houses ever since.

"under God" originated in the Gettysburg Address; Lincoln also (rightly) observed that the Declaration of Independence is our founding document - the Articles and later Constitution were merely the "how" that government would be formed. Lincoln lifted a phrase from Proverbs 25:11 "A Word fitly spoken is like apples of gold in settings of silver." The "Apple of Gold" was the Declaration, the setting of silver the constitution - without the declaration there is no American legal system but a British. America was Founded on an Idea - that Lincoln fought to realize "that all men are created equal ...endowed by their creator ...unalienable rights".

Deism then was different from what it is today, even so so most of the Founders were clearly Christians in one form or another (the above Washington quote doesn't sound much like a Deist).

http://www.history.org/foundation/journal/spring09/deism.cfm


gvblackmoon wrote:
The proof you provide fails to pass the law....
I aver the same for your argument.



Secular government precludes the very idea of us being a Christian nation since as I have stated time and time again that you can't have both they are competing ideas. To have both is fantasy and a fevered dream of the right pumped up by big business. You don't get it both ways you have one or the other. Yes the founders where Christian but that doesn't mean the nation is that is a compositional argument. IE If A then B has to be true.


"The highest glory of the American Revolution was this; in connected in one indissoluble bond the principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity." - John Quincy Adams

"Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams

"The foundations of our society and our government rest so much on the teachings of the Bible that it would be difficult to support them if faith in these teachikngs wold cease to be practically universal in our country." Calvin Coolidge

Conservative talk show host Michael Medved likes to say, "I am not a victim" - I agree.

https://online.hillsdale.edu/?_ga=1.71144084.505053728.1412676784
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Posted 9/21/15 , edited 9/21/15
Does anyone else think this seems like an obvious flame-bait thread?
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44 / M / WA
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Posted 9/21/15
Possibly, as I am not seeing any real persecution ...and why I am only posting once (1.1).
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