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Post Reply Humans and suicide
Bavalt 
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28 / M / Canada
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Posted 10/11/15
I subscribe to the belief that people are, without exception, selfish. Assuming that, then, caring about someone is basically being personally invested in them: when you consider another person's goals, happiness, or presence as part of your own agenda or desires, then you care about that person. What I see most of the time is people mistakenly treating this kind of thinking as somehow insincere or half-assed, when it's actually quite genuine, and I think some people end up getting disillusioned about relationships because they expect them to be more than they're capable of being.

Nobody cares about you like you do, because nobody knows you like you do. That's just the way things are. Every person in your life will have a different impression of you based on what of you they've seen; every one of them will probably assume to some degree that you want the same things out of life that they do, and will in most cases be at least partially wrong, while harboring the best of intentions. It's not normal for an interpersonal connection to be so deep that you can really say that you completely understand each other, and there's no reason to expect that kind of bond out of relationships. If someone says they care about you, they probably do. If someone acts like they care about you, they probably do. They care, without fail, for the reason that you, somehow, have the ability to make them happier or sadder: because you can affect them. The exact details are highly variable, and obviously you'll be more inclined to appreciate types of care that you can more readily understand, but that doesn't mean that other types are invalid; just that there's a difference in values.

So, regarding strangers trying to convince someone not to commit suicide, they're often doing it, for example, because they value life, and want to do something that they'd see as morally right. The person committing suicide has the ability to affect the stranger's happiness, simply because it's a better result for them and their values if that person lives. That's still legitimate. As with everything, it's loaded with projection and fundamentally selfish, but the fact of the matter is that the person trying to interfere will truly be happier if the person considering suicide lives. The reason it seems "empty" is rather because the person considering suicide usually does not care about the interloper. They're thinking of ending it all, so have no reason to invest in this random stranger; they have little reason to consider their own well-being at all, since they expect their ability to feel good or bad to end soon. The stranger's well-being usually has no bearing on them, so they don't pay much attention to what they say. People closer to them will naturally have a better chance of swaying them, because those are people in whom they're pre-invested: the care runs both ways, it's just a matter of how much weight the person considering suicide puts on that person's well-being versus the factors that are driving them to suicide.

Basically, I'm not judging either party. It's fine to want to kill yourself if you've thought about it long and hard and decided that's really what you want. It's fine to want to stop someone from killing themselves if their death would make you unhappy for any reason. Just be aware that it might be counterproductive if it's a stranger who has no reason to value your opinion and who might be under the impression that such an opinion is shallow.
Posted 10/11/15
I know what you are talking about, I've wrote similar messages and never really received little to nothing besides the "I love you, and Someone cares about you". It can be annoying but I believe you can care about a complete stranger. You want to help that other person. So you tell him these things.
Posted 10/11/15

ayesharocks wrote:

Suicide is dumb from my opinion, and this is from someone who is depressed and once suicidal. There's so much more to life than what you think.


I wouldn't be so quick to judge suicide as dumb..
Posted 10/12/15 , edited 10/12/15
if you trust people, i don't think you would necessarily find yourself in a situation where the advice you're given is distrusted when it's sound. you can't rely on your thoughts if they are overly negative s pretending people care is the best option for you (as a person).
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Posted 10/12/15 , edited 10/12/15


I don't want to say that's bullshit, but it is bullshit.
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20 / Cold and High
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Posted 10/12/15 , edited 10/12/15

furytime wrote: I wouldn't be so quick to judge suicide as dumb..
Many things about it are dumb, but some got "reasons".
but saying as a whole its dumb then its quite.. back to them.


nemoskull wrote: Most people care, just not enough to actually do something.
Hard to know what to do to atleast not make it worse.
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Posted 10/12/15
If a person has made up there mind that "no one cares about me". Nothing anyone says or does will change their mind. Strangers can care about other strangers. There is a reason people help on suicide hotlines, domestic abuse hotlines, all sorts of hotlines. The same reason charities exist people want to help other people who are less fortunate or in need of something, clean water, food, clothes, you name it there is some charity out there trying to help. 7 billion people on the planet everyone has their own problems and needs, but there are people who are willing to help, trying to help in any way they can. The first step is to admit you need help then seeking it.
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It doesn't matter.
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Posted 10/12/15
I think people will say that as a knee jerk reaction, more because they don't want to be responsible for a tragedy.
Still I think it's better than the bystander effect or trying to call someone's bluff to feel smart at someone else's expense.
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20 / M / Bundaberg, Queens...
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Posted 10/12/15
Suicide...its selfish to do but it's also selfish to stop someone from commiting it.

What do you do....when both choices are "Wrong"

People do care and it does get better but some people don't see that..that being said there are cases where it doesn't get better.
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Posted 10/12/15 , edited 10/12/15
It seems to me like the OP is herself deeply depressed. As someone depressed myself as well as borderline I feel like I have some experience in this area. It's pretty easy to be an echo chamber within yourself when you're in a dark place, each nasty little voice confirming your notion that no one cares about you now, that you're a nobody, that you won't be missed when you are gone, that you'll never amount to anything if you just continue suffering. All of those voices are know-nothing liars. You don't have the perspective of people on the outside no matter how much you think understand them, no matter how much you think all of them "don't give a shit." You're only one person, you're not God, you don't understand how much or in what ways other people and groups need you. Maybe some who are contemplating suicide don't have a whole lot of people they can count on as far as they can tell. Even in this scenario they lack insight. You especially can't see the future so you don't know the ties to others you'll have then. Human beings are very small so it's easy for them to confirm their inherently false preconceived notions that they are unloved.

Back specifically to the OP-- if you get angry when others try to back people off of suicide, why is that? Why do you think the idea that other people don't actually care at all is more realistic? I think you should think about that. People will let you down because they are fallen, imperfect human beings, but that doesn't mean they don't care at all, because that isn't how humans are designed either. It shouldn't make you angry that others try to stop someone from ending their lives in despair.
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23 / F / SCANDINAVIA
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Posted 10/12/15
"Please don't do it" is about the work 90% people do.
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Posted 10/12/15 , edited 10/12/15

i_love_u_jesus wrote: (< Click here for more) Too long to read -_-
Well then thats most be why you got the name Jesus!

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Posted 10/12/15 , edited 10/12/15
---------------------- *not even touching that with a 9 foot stick*
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Posted 10/12/15 , edited 10/12/15


u win lel top kek
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Posted 10/12/15

Bavalt wrote:

I subscribe to the belief that people are, without exception, selfish. Assuming that, then, caring about someone is basically being personally invested in them: when you consider another person's goals, happiness, or presence as part of your own agenda or desires, then you care about that person. What I see most of the time is people mistakenly treating this kind of thinking as somehow insincere or half-assed, when it's actually quite genuine, and I think some people end up getting disillusioned about relationships because they expect them to be more than they're capable of being.

Nobody cares about you like you do, because nobody knows you like you do. That's just the way things are. Every person in your life will have a different impression of you based on what of you they've seen; every one of them will probably assume to some degree that you want the same things out of life that they do, and will in most cases be at least partially wrong, while harboring the best of intentions. It's not normal for an interpersonal connection to be so deep that you can really say that you completely understand each other, and there's no reason to expect that kind of bond out of relationships. If someone says they care about you, they probably do. If someone acts like they care about you, they probably do. They care, without fail, for the reason that you, somehow, have the ability to make them happier or sadder: because you can affect them. The exact details are highly variable, and obviously you'll be more inclined to appreciate types of care that you can more readily understand, but that doesn't mean that other types are invalid; just that there's a difference in values.

So, regarding strangers trying to convince someone not to commit suicide, they're often doing it, for example, because they value life, and want to do something that they'd see as morally right. The person committing suicide has the ability to affect the stranger's happiness, simply because it's a better result for them and their values if that person lives. That's still legitimate. As with everything, it's loaded with projection and fundamentally selfish, but the fact of the matter is that the person trying to interfere will truly be happier if the person considering suicide lives. The reason it seems "empty" is rather because the person considering suicide usually does not care about the interloper. They're thinking of ending it all, so have no reason to invest in this random stranger; they have little reason to consider their own well-being at all, since they expect their ability to feel good or bad to end soon. The stranger's well-being usually has no bearing on them, so they don't pay much attention to what they say. People closer to them will naturally have a better chance of swaying them, because those are people in whom they're pre-invested: the care runs both ways, it's just a matter of how much weight the person considering suicide puts on that person's well-being versus the factors that are driving them to suicide.

Basically, I'm not judging either party. It's fine to want to kill yourself if you've thought about it long and hard and decided that's really what you want. It's fine to want to stop someone from killing themselves if their death would make you unhappy for any reason. Just be aware that it might be counterproductive if it's a stranger who has no reason to value your opinion and who might be under the impression that such an opinion is shallow.



>this is why capitalism works almost too well
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