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Post Reply Tsunderes
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Posted 10/12/15

PeripheralVisionary wrote:

And they slowly fall in love with him because he's just so damn nice. You're right, it is wish fulfillment. At least in Oreimo Kyou went above and beyond to earn Kirino's love, which raises problems in of itself, only to be somewhat remediated by the fact that she's his sister, and you go above and beyond for family and not hot girls you just met. Somewhat.


*nods*

Yes, I think you've got it. I'm glad to see we agree on this.
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Posted 10/12/15
". absolutely now one but a masochist would even tolerate them," TIL i'm a masochist.
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Posted 10/12/15

Kitahoshi_Hazel wrote:

Haruhi Suzumiya... I don't like her and I don't understand why anyone else does.


Because she is god

BOW DOWN HEATHEN
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Posted 10/12/15 , edited 10/12/15

3.tsunderes are incorrigible idiots, what train of thought made them think "hey if I'm an absolute prick to the one I love then they'll love me."? obviously you'll be avoided if not assaulted.


They're not actually thinking that. They're generally thinking more along the lines of "Why can't I stop pushing this person away? I care about them, so why am I cruel to them?" It's wish fulfillment for the reader/viewer. A reassurance that the girls and women that have turned the reader/viewer down were just being dishonest with both the reader/viewer and themselves. That's the part of tsundere I don't like projecting onto.



......That is highschool me annoying the girl i liked right there summed up in a nutshell.
That and the fact when someone said Do you like her? i reacted like...EWW WTF NO!? ....now i look back on the past my highschool romance makes me look like a tsundere.

NOPE.AVI
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Posted 10/12/15 , edited 10/12/15
I'm allergic to tsunderes.
Some tsunderes are alright, if it's subtle, but if I see a really cliche tsundere and the rest of the show looks iffy, I'll drop it flat.
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Posted 10/12/15 , edited 10/13/15
I hate this thread.... baka
Posted 10/12/15
I don't mind the tsundere archetype, it's quite enjoyable to watch suppression of any kind at play. PV had an interesting perspective on that a spiteful relationship being forged into one of deep affection.

I think tsunderes also exhibit that phenomenon of rebellion where someone tells you you cant do "x" and it makes you want to do it even more(which I like), in a tsunderes case rebellion against one's self is at play where they express outwards that they hate a person yet underneath it's not the case, in a way they're telling themselves, "I hate this person I can't fall in love with them."

The archetype also is a stunning example of self-repression which can stem from needing to keep/maintain an image especially one of high social standing where they're image might be tarnished if they were to be seen in a relationship with someone who is lesser in someway but some where along the road they developed feelings where perhaps they can't keep themselves away from the person they love when they are around there love interest and the only way to interact is threw being harsh and cold in order to keep there social standing.

Tl;dr :All and all what I like is that tsunderes can tell a romantic story of self-repression that develops to an acceptance of ones own feelings.

Blueoni's perspective also makes a lot of sense and is acrually really interesting to think about.
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Posted 10/12/15
It is the easiest plot device to keep the story interesting and makes it easier to explain stuff without any logical human interaction.

In reality, the tsundere would get a huge beatdown and probably pushed infront of a moving bus. To be honest, I might find that more entertaining than most shows that overuse the tsundere explaination.
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Posted 10/12/15
why they're good, they are pure/innocent girl/boy

1. They are honest and feel the most pure because they are honest. (because they're so obvious, they are not a true two faced)
2. They always have good intention, making them more pure.
3. They are prudent, giving them the illusion of more pure.
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Posted 10/12/15

pandrasb wrote:

why they're good, they are pure/innocent girl/boy

1. They are honest and feel the most pure because they are honest. (because they're so obvious, they are not a true two faced)
2. They always have good intention, making them more pure.
3. They are prudent, giving them the illusion of more pure.


This is a thread about tsunderes, not yanderes...
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Posted 10/12/15
Tsunderes are basically villains who better be damn grateful they aren't in any other genre than rom-coms, or else they would be quickly recognized as the true enemies of Justice that they are.
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Posted 10/12/15

BlueOni wrote:

Let's go straight to the questions and reasons tsundere are a problem.


periah250 wrote:

1. absolutely now one but a masochist would even tolerate them, so why are they so prevalent?


Here you've probably asked the most important question: why is the archetype, good or bad, so popular as to border on being ubiquitous? Well, let's think about what a tsundere is: she's an initially cold, distant, spiteful girl who insists with all her might that the main protagonist is someone she not only does not currently love, but never could conceive of a time where she would feel otherwise. Further, she's frequently very outgoing, aggressive, talented, and beautiful. Popularity seems to come fairly naturally for her, too.

Then the thing that makes a tsundere a tsundere happens: her initial coldness, spite, and disinterest gradually give way to warmth, fondness, and openness to the main protagonist's feelings. Where once there was a towering wall between herself and the main protagonist there now stands an open gate. Perhaps she is revealed to secretly be extremely vulnerable, or the main protagonist does something that proves his worth in her eyes, or maybe she had feelings for the main protagonist all along but dealt with her anxiety and self-doubt by pushing the source away.

Put all of that together and what does it sound like? It sounds to me like wish fulfillment fantasy to ease the pain of unrequited love. There are multiple directions to go with a character intended to reach someone who feels that women and girls are too aggressive and judgmental to be worth bothering with (this is a common complaint among young Japanese men from what I understand), and one of those directions is to provide the reader/viewer with a similarly aggressive and judgmental female character upon which their own love interest may be projected. Once that's done the tsundere's shift toward being warm, open, and loving fulfills a wish for the reader/viewer. Loneliness and isolation aren't exactly strangers to Japanese fans of manga and anime, and even a cursory glance into the Japanese understanding of the term "otaku" would reveal why such people might have a need for a lot of wish fulfillment fantasy.

This is also, I think, why the whole thing about little sisters has gained such prominence. A little sister is familiar, close, consistently available, and may even be affectionate toward her brother when no other girls are. A lonely mind could conceivably warp that affection into a fantasy the dreamer has no intention of ever bringing to reality, but nevertheless proves a comforting relief from isolation. It's not that Japanese boys and men suddenly have a widespread hankering to get it on with their sisters. It's that otaku are treated so badly and outcast so thoroughly that their extreme loneliness conjures extreme means for relief. It's a product of desperate loneliness, not shameless perversion.

As for why I like tsundere? Well, look back at the initial part of my description of them. They're frequently presented as talented, attractive, popular, capable individuals that are strong enough to not only be able to say "No" without worrying about it, but to pound anyone who doesn't take the "No" into hamburger. They're too aggressive, but all told a tsundere is pretty fun for me to project myself onto. Who wouldn't like to imagine themselves as being attractive, intelligent, athletic, popular, competent, and assertive?


2. They are literally everywhere enough is enough.


There is nothing new under the sun, so they say.


3.tsunderes are incorrigible idiots, what train of thought made them think "hey if I'm an absolute prick to the one I love then they'll love me."? obviously you'll be avoided if not assaulted.


They're not actually thinking that. They're generally thinking more along the lines of "Why can't I stop pushing this person away? I care about them, so why am I cruel to them?" It's wish fulfillment for the reader/viewer. A reassurance that the girls and women that have turned the reader/viewer down were just being dishonest with both the reader/viewer and themselves. That's the part of tsundere I don't like projecting onto.


ok good points but please note how a vast majority of anime never advance the Tsundere past despising the character but show very short moments of warmth but straight back to being a prick
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Posted 10/12/15
I don't mind the character you're talking about to be honest but I can see why you hate her. Probably shouldn't break stuff over it tho lol.
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Posted 10/12/15

GrandMasterTime wrote:

I don't mind the character you're talking about to be honest but I can see why you hate her. Probably shouldn't break stuff over it tho lol.


hey hey i said close no electrical or otherwise appliances were harmed in the making of this rant.
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Posted 10/12/15 , edited 10/12/15
Tsundere dislike is real.

It's funny people think girls and guys don't exist like this irl..xD

Love wise i know alot of people who would be considered "Tsundere" esspecialy me when i'm single and have a crush on someone.

But tsunderes can be bad or good depends how its played out.
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Posted 10/12/15
Can you tell right away if a character is a tsundere or not in just one episode of an anime or the first chapter of a manga?
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