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Post Reply CISA - Government's latest attempt at internet surveillance... again
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Posted 10/22/15 , edited 10/27/15
I have to give Congress a lot of credit here. They sure don't know the meaning of "give up" when it comes to bills like this. I've never seen them this persistent about anything.



To no one's surprise, the only thing Congress can agree on is more internet control. Cybersecurity Information Sharing Act (CISA) just had a vote in the Senate today (83-14) to end further debate on amendments, bringing it closer to getting passed after being stalled since last year. Like all the surveillance bills before it, CISA will allow the government to take anyone's personal information off the internet, regardless of whether or not that information is relevant to an investigation or if there even is a warrant for the individual. Any government group from the NSA to even your local police department can request your personal information. Also, the Senate shot down an amendment that would've held companies liable for sharing this information and violating their privacy agreements. The bill has strong support within the the House of Representatives and the White House.

Senators from both parties, including 3 out of the 4 senators running for president (Rand Paul, Bernie Sanders, and Ted Cruz), have come out in opposition to this bill along with major tech companies (Google, Apple, Twitter, etc.)


While some groups purport that CISA is needed to stop hackers, major major tech firms – like Apple, Google and Dropbox – have joined Senator Paul in calling the bill a major threat to internet freedom that won’t even make the internet more secure.
"We don't support the current CISA proposal," Apple said in a Tuesday statement. "The trust of our customers means everything to us and we don't believe security should come at the expense of their privacy."


https://www.rt.com/usa/319422-cisa-senate-paul-amendment/

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN0SG24820151022

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/growing-tech-opposition-to-cybersecurity-bill/article/2574630

Anyone else getting real tired of Congress and the president trying to pass surveillance laws like this?


Edit: October 27th: the Senate passed the bill 74-21.



Cybersecurity Information Sharing Act:

https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/senate-bill/754

Simplified version courtesy of BlueOni:


BlueOni wrote:




Posted 10/22/15
That gif never fails to make me laugh.

I'm pretty sure the govt is already spying on us, just not legally.
Posted 10/22/15
Can the internet really continue as the digital wild west for long? There's a shitload of terrible things on the deep web.
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Posted 10/22/15 , edited 10/22/15

PeripheralVisionary wrote:

Can the internet really continue as the digital wild west for long? There's a shitload of terrible things on the deep web.


The problem is that they'll crack down on that, and it will disappear. Then, they'll start cracking down on more minor offenses, until those are gone. Then, you won't be able say admit to jaywalking on the net without receiving a ticket in the mail (an exaggeration, I know, but still). Basically, this is the first step down a slippery slope.

Yeah, a LOT of things on the net may need cracking down on.... but I think there are WAY better ways to go about it than putting a blanket law in place that allows the government to do as they please.

That'd be close to the same as the government making a law that said they could walk into houses or search cars, just 'cause.


In any case, it's going to happen, no matter what we do about it. It's just a matter of time. I'm going to be glad when that mind-uploading thing happens, so I can just create my own virtual world and live there. I might invite a couple people over, but that's it!
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Posted 10/22/15

PeripheralVisionary wrote:

Can the internet really continue as the digital wild west for long? There's a shitload of terrible things on the deep web.


And surely stuff like that leads to criminals getting caught. You can't compare that to some ordinary guy chatting with his friends on Facebook about what kind of women he likes or some other private matter. Laws like this allow the government to take any kind of private information from regular law-abiding citizens, even when they're not suspected of a crime.
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Posted 10/22/15

PeripheralVisionary wrote:

Can the internet really continue as the digital wild west for long? There's a shitload of terrible things on the deep web.


Eh. The deep web isn't that much worse than the surface web to be honest.
Posted 10/22/15 , edited 10/22/15
I'm an authoritarian, I fully support what Eritrea is doing. You people are fucking terrible. Hobbes was right. We need someone to watch us so we don't touch ourselves at night.

You go on about "muh freedoms" and "muh guns" without regards to the people that the internet destroyed.
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Posted 10/22/15
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Posted 10/22/15 , edited 10/22/15

PeripheralVisionary wrote:

I'm an authoritarian.


Only because you've never lived in a truly authoritarian society.

Everyone has a certain degree of deviance. As long as it isn't harming anyone, usually, it goes unnoticed or at least unpunished.

The problem with authoritarian society is that it creates such a strict environment, no amount of deviance is tolerated. Laws become increasingly stricter, because there is nothing to stop it. People become completely unhappy and eventually revolt. That's why it's terribly unstable to have an authoritarian government.

It's like kids... the ones that live with incredibly strict parents go the most crazy when their parents are no longer in control. Except, in a government situation, the people eventually break the leash and chaos and war ensue.

AND, until that happens, people just live in misery and fear. You happen to click on a pop-up and catch a glance at a horse banging a chick. Oh shit, now you're going to jail. When are the police going to arrive at the house? No idea, but might as well have a little fun... might as well go see if you can track down some cocaine and a hooker, before they throw you behind bars. People literally snap under the pressure.
Suicide would skyrocket. You think guns kill people now? Suicides alone will quadruple those numbers in a few years.

Absolute control over any human is a bad recipe, in my opinion. Doing it to the masses is a terrible plan.

So what, people smoke pot and download a few pirated movies.... beats the alternative.
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Posted 10/22/15 , edited 10/24/15

PeripheralVisionary wrote:

I'm an authoritarian, I fully support what Eritrea is doing. You people are fucking terrible. Hobbes was right. We need someone to watch us so we don't touch ourselves at night.

You go on about "muh freedoms" and "muh guns" without regards to the people that the internet destroyed.


This isn't about protection. It's about control. Giving up your rights for a false sense of security is arguably the worst possible move you could ever make in your personal life.

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Posted 10/22/15 , edited 10/22/15


/thread
Posted 10/22/15

HolyDrumstick wrote:


PeripheralVisionary wrote:

I'm an authoritarian.


Only because you've never lived in a truly authoritarian society.

Everyone has a certain degree of deviance. As long as it isn't harming anyone, usually, it goes unnoticed or at least unpunished.

The problem with authoritarian society is that it creates such a strict environment, no amount of deviance is tolerated. Laws become increasingly stricter, because there is nothing to stop it. People become completely unhappy and eventually revolt. That's why it's terribly unstable to have an authoritarian government.

It's like kids... the ones that live with incredibly strict parents go the most crazy when their parents are no longer in control. Except, in a government situation, the people eventually break the leash and chaos and war ensue.

AND, until that happens, people just live in misery and fear. You happen to click on a pop-up and catch a glance at a horse banging a chick. Oh shit, no you're going to jail. When are the police going to arrive at the house? No idea, but might as well have a little fun... might as well go see if you can track down some cocaine and a hooker, before they throw you behind bars. People literally snap under the pressure.
Suicide would skyrocket. You think guns kill people now? Suicides alone will quadruple those numbers in a few years.

Absolute control over any human is a bad recipe, in my opinion. Doing it to the masses is a terrible plan.

So what, people smoke pot and download a few pirated movies.... beats the alternative.


Depends on the intensity. People need a leader to guide them. People don't need choice. More often than not, people make the wrong choice. I mean, have you ever played a video game? An MMO? What happens if you give players freedom without dire consequences? They kill. They loot. They live their lives being filthy degenerates. Take Mortal Online for example. People are free to kill whomever they want and however they want? There's no benefit to it, but you know what? People do it anyway. There's a certain power trip that comes from defying common law. Which is why we needed consequences. Actual Consequences. Take Vlad Tepes, aka Vlad the impaler. He impaled basically anyone that broke the law. And you know what? No one broke a fucking law. Is this not a utopia we all seek?


On a more serious note, I do not approve of you bringing guns into this debate. This is not a gun debate thread. :/
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Posted 10/22/15 , edited 10/22/15

PeripheralVisionary wrote:
On a more serious note, I do not approve of you bringing guns into this debate. This is not a gun debate thread. :/



PeripheralVisionary wrote:
You go on about "muh freedoms" and "muh guns" without regards to the people that the internet destroyed.


Then don't bring guns into the fucking thread.
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Posted 10/22/15 , edited 10/24/15

PeripheralVisionary wrote:
Depends on the intensity. People need a leader to guide them. People don't need choice. More often than not, people make the wrong choice. I mean, have you ever played a video game? An MMO? What happens if you give players freedom without dire consequences? They kill. They loot. They live their lives being filthy degenerates. Take Mortal Online for example. People are free to kill whomever they want and however they want? There's no benefit to it, but you know what? People do it anyway. There's a certain power trip that comes from defying common law. Which is why we needed consequences. Actual Consequences. Take Vlad Tepes, aka Vlad the impaler. He impaled basically anyone that broke the law. And you know what? No one broke a fucking law. Is this not a utopia we all seek?


Oh, and there ARE consequences. We aren't living in an anarchy.

Stop acting like it's a warzone outside your house. We have it pretty damned sweet here in the states, and I don't know why we'd fuck that up with unnecessary laws.

Almost the only place we need laws is involving regulating the government.
Posted 10/22/15

HolyDrumstick wrote:


PeripheralVisionary wrote:
On a more serious note, I do not approve of you bringing guns into this debate. This is not a gun debate thread. :/



PeripheralVisionary wrote:
You go on about "muh freedoms" and "muh guns" without regards to the people that the internet destroyed.


Then don't bring guns into the fucking thread.


I forgot. :/

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