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Post Reply CISA - Government's latest attempt at internet surveillance... again
Posted 10/25/15

Uncle_Enzo wrote:




The sad thing is that people who have committed horrible crimes against humanity tend to believe they are doing it for a good cause. The intent of people who commit human rights abuses is completely irrelevant.


But they still mean to do that. No one wanted the Chinese Famines.


Mao didn't starve, he lived like a king while his people did. All of his acts can be attributed to his hubris, arrogance, and ego. And this goes for all tyrants that have lived throughout history. America has been extortionately blessed that its founding fathers were men of the enlightenment age. They knew the wickedness and lust for power that lives in the hearts of men, and did all they could to keep the monopoly of force that states have out of the control of one person. Because of our liberty, the details of controversial laws get out to the public where open debates can happen. There is no way in hell an authoritarian like Mao would allow this kind of discussion on his laws.


Yes, but what I'm saying is famines aren't inherently the result of human right's violations.
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Posted 10/25/15

PeripheralVisionary wrote:

I thought abuses had less to do with incompetence and more malicious intent. Even though he killed more people than Hitler, it would hardly be qualified as a genocide, right?


Think less of the incompetence entailed by asking farmers with no background in milling steel to produce that instead of what they already knew how to (food), and more in terms of encouraging and enabling the violent ousting of "bourgeois elements" from society by youths swept up in the flurry of a growing personality cult. Less in terms of improperly set and allocated quotas and more in terms of forcible relocation of millions of urban youth.

But we're not really supposed to be on Mao per se, though a discussion of authoritarianism itself might tie in. We're more supposed to be on about a measure the US is trying to take to detect and respond to cyber threats more effectively. It's a well-intended piece of legislation I'm sure, but it effectively makes private telecommunications companies deputies of the state, granting them powers and protections they have no business possessing. I used the example of mass content flagging to indicate that automated reporting systems (which telecommunications companies would surely be using to monitor their consumers' traffic for indications of threats they've been furnished if they're to be expected to be able to provide reports in real time) haven't done very well for properly enforcing the DMCA.

I really don't like what I'm seeing in this bill, and I suspect it will not function as intended. There will be a lot of improperly flagged people if previous attempts at automated surveillance/reporting are an indication.
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Posted 10/25/15




Mao didn't starve, he lived like a king while his people did. All of his acts can be attributed to his hubris, arrogance, and ego. And this goes for all tyrants that have lived throughout history. America has been extortionately blessed that its founding fathers were men of the enlightenment age. They knew the wickedness and lust for power that lives in the hearts of men, and did all they could to keep the monopoly of force that states have out of the control of one person. Because of our liberty, the details of controversial laws get out to the public where open debates can happen. There is no way in hell an authoritarian like Mao would allow this kind of discussion on his laws.

Yes, but what I'm saying is famines aren't inherently the result of human right's violations.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mao:_The_Unknown_Story


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Posted 10/27/15 , edited 10/27/15
They actually passed it...

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/27/cisa-cybersecurity-bill-senate-vote

74-21 in favor of the bill.

Now it's on its way to the House, in which the bill faces even less opposition.
Posted 10/27/15
Freedom eh.
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Posted 10/27/15

haikinka wrote:

Freedom eh.


We 'Mericans love our freedom!

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Posted 10/27/15

HolyDrumstick wrote:


PeripheralVisionary wrote:

I'm an authoritarian.


Only because you've never lived in a truly authoritarian society.

Everyone has a certain degree of deviance. As long as it isn't harming anyone, usually, it goes unnoticed or at least unpunished.

The problem with authoritarian society is that it creates such a strict environment, no amount of deviance is tolerated. Laws become increasingly stricter, because there is nothing to stop it. People become completely unhappy and eventually revolt. That's why it's terribly unstable to have an authoritarian government.

It's like kids... the ones that live with incredibly strict parents go the most crazy when their parents are no longer in control. Except, in a government situation, the people eventually break the leash and chaos and war ensue.

AND, until that happens, people just live in misery and fear. You happen to click on a pop-up and catch a glance at a horse banging a chick. Oh shit, now you're going to jail. When are the police going to arrive at the house? No idea, but might as well have a little fun... might as well go see if you can track down some cocaine and a hooker, before they throw you behind bars. People literally snap under the pressure.
Suicide would skyrocket. You think guns kill people now? Suicides alone will quadruple those numbers in a few years.

Absolute control over any human is a bad recipe, in my opinion. Doing it to the masses is a terrible plan.

So what, people smoke pot and download a few pirated movies.... beats the alternative.


Well said... well said
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Posted 10/27/15 , edited 10/27/15
time to pirate download then airgap my laptop......
edit:
thank god i still have a nokia 1101. GSM, no gps, removable battery, tracfone prepaid. if you think good tracking everytime you take a dump, can you imagine this? and since the prettty much means big companies can lie on the TOS and insert data gathering code in the software and track you anyways. live audio and video taps, gps locations, speed over ground, altitute, if your in a metal building or not, if you laying down or standing up.....
not to mention firmware updates. BIOS, the new UEFI system can now have tracking and tx/rx capabilites built in, soon your laptop will spy on you even if its off and there is no battery. this is a nightmare. if google and apple get into this....there goes the safety of 90% of your communications.

edit 2: intrestingly enough, IBM supports this bill. then again, IBM flight computers are in every air force bomber and plane. IBM losing its civilian customer base might not be big blow to them.
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Posted 10/27/15

PeripheralVisionary wrote:

Can the internet really continue as the digital wild west for long? There's a shitload of terrible things on the deep web.

That's good and all but we all know it's not going to stay limited to the deep web. I haven't read much off of the article but if it lets them survey citizens without any needed reason other than them being flagged somewhere because they clicked on a fishy link some blue moon ago, then I'd have to advocate against it.

I'm trying to get a military job, and the last thing I want is to be thrown in jail because I clicked a bad link (obviously, really low chance of that happening, but horror stories from this bill being passed will eventually rise). This is just an abuse of power waiting to happen.
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