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Post Reply Capitalism benefits the working class far more than the ruling class
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Hoosierville
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Posted 10/26/15

dotsforlife wrote:

In the end the only ones who truly benefit are the super rich. Everyone else is simply led to believe they are.


That's due to government protections and special tax deductions for mega-corporations. The last recession showed us just how stable this super companies are... We need more competition and less protections for corporations.

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40 / M / USA
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Posted 10/26/15 , edited 10/26/15

Rujikin wrote:


dotsforlife wrote:

In the end the only ones who truly benefit are the super rich. Everyone else is simply led to believe they are.


That's due to government protections and special tax deductions for mega-corporations. The last recession showed us just how stable this super companies are... We need more competition and less protections for corporations.



Companies will just continue to move overseas to either get around regulations or save $$$. Part of the problem is our government not making things enticing enough to keep things here in the US. The rest is simply greed. They spend too much time regulating the wrong things. Our priorities are wack.
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Hoosierville
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Posted 10/26/15

dotsforlife wrote:


Rujikin wrote:


dotsforlife wrote:

In the end the only ones who truly benefit are the super rich. Everyone else is simply led to believe they are.


That's due to government protections and special tax deductions for mega-corporations. The last recession showed us just how stable this super companies are... We need more competition and less protections for corporations.



Companies will just continue to move overseas to either get around regulations or save $$$. Part of the problem is our government not making things enticing enough to keep things here in the US. The rest is simply greed. They spend too much time regulating the wrong things. Our priorities are wack.


We are trading with China which is using slave labor. Of course we cannot compete with slave labor. We need to have tarrifs that are applied to countries without environmental protection laws and worker rights laws.
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40 / M / USA
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Posted 10/26/15 , edited 10/26/15

Rujikin wrote:


dotsforlife
Companies will just continue to move overseas to either get around regulations or save $$$. Part of the problem is our government not making things enticing enough to keep things here in the US. The rest is simply greed. They spend too much time regulating the wrong things. Our priorities are wack.


We are trading with China which is using slave labor. Of course we cannot compete with slave labor. We need to have tarrifs that are applied to countries without environmental protection laws and worker rights laws.


Our government is too spineless to bother doing that. We can barely get through an election now without bringing the circus to town.
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Hoosierville
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Posted 10/26/15

dotsforlife wrote:


Rujikin wrote:


dotsforlife
Companies will just continue to move overseas to either get around regulations or save $$$. Part of the problem is our government not making things enticing enough to keep things here in the US. The rest is simply greed. They spend too much time regulating the wrong things. Our priorities are wack.


We are trading with China which is using slave labor. Of course we cannot compete with slave labor. We need to have tarrifs that are applied to countries without environmental protection laws and worker rights laws.


Our governments too spineless to bother doing that. We can barely get through an election now without bringing the circus to town.


Haha so true. Our two parties both pander to the rich corporations and mega corporations love slave labor.
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28 / M / Oklahoma
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Posted 10/26/15
Unchecked capitalism is just as bad as any economic system. While the opportunity for "higher times" that seem great occur, there's almost always a following downswing. Unchecked these can create bubbles, and the larger the bubble the worse the aftermath (depressions and recessions). Most countries use some form of mixed markets to help grow GDP while protecting the majority from these swings.

As the need for laborers dwindle and automation becomes more prevalent we will see higher unemployment as time goes on. At that time the need towards more socialistic practices will come into play, and the need to develop a higher educated workforce will come as the requirements become more intellectually intensive which would theoretically drive an overhaul in education.

Communism itself will likely never take root as physical resources themselves are limited unless efficiency grows to near lossless consumption (unrealistic).
Posted 10/26/15

biscuitnote wrote:


GayAsianBoy wrote:

Yes, we get to enjoy the luxury of fast food like mcdonalds and kfc, while they have to wait hours just for an appetiser.

Go working class.


Did you read what I posted? Your response leads me to believe you didn't read it.


I did, and I simply don't agree. My reply was tongue in cheek, not literal.

Working class will never be able to fly first class or stay at the hiltons. Last hotel I stayed in had doorknobs that's about to fall off; that's the reality of working class.
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13 / F / California
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Posted 10/26/15

GayAsianBoy wrote:


biscuitnote wrote:


GayAsianBoy wrote:

Yes, we get to enjoy the luxury of fast food like mcdonalds and kfc, while they have to wait hours just for an appetiser.

Go working class.


Did you read what I posted? Your response leads me to believe you didn't read it.


I did, and I simply don't agree. My reply was tongue in cheek, not literal.

Working class will never be able to fly first class or stay at the hiltons. Last hotel I stayed in had doorknobs that's about to fall off; that's the reality of working class.


Well shit.

I've stayed at a Hilton before....
Rohzek 
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Posted 10/26/15 , edited 10/26/15
The problem with capitalists is that they treat the market as though it is ontologically different from political bodies. In reality, such a distinction is just purely conventional and artificial. The second problem of capitalists is that they never read Book 4 of Adam Smith's Wealth of Nations, which basically highlights what Marx later identified as the tendency for hyper-division of labor's adverse and negative effects upon the poor working class. I realize Smith was pre-capitalist, but a lot of modern-day capitalists tote around his book like it was the Gospel without even fully understanding the words they hold.

I for one do not think capitalism is the ideal for the working class. Saying it benefits the working class is meaningless and is a bad argument in its favor. There has to be something more. For example, the slave system and its conditions in the 19th Century were better than the slave system and conditions of the previous two centuries. Okay, so the slaves of the 19th Century benefited from the system that enslaves them since it improved their condition compared to times past. Does that justify slavery? Not in the least. Again, the bar for justification is a high one and we should not lower it.
Posted 10/27/15
well, the media sure does empower the people
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24 / M / USA
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Posted 10/27/15

GayAsianBoy wrote:


biscuitnote wrote:


GayAsianBoy wrote:

Yes, we get to enjoy the luxury of fast food like mcdonalds and kfc, while they have to wait hours just for an appetiser.

Go working class.


Did you read what I posted? Your response leads me to believe you didn't read it.


I did, and I simply don't agree. My reply was tongue in cheek, not literal.

Working class will never be able to fly first class or stay at the hiltons. Last hotel I stayed in had doorknobs that's about to fall off; that's the reality of working class.


You still live better than 90 percent of humanity. You have a car electricity food everyday more entertainment than people 100 years ago could dream about. Yet you still believe you are entitled to more without having to earn it.
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24 / M / USA
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Posted 10/27/15

thekevin4 wrote:

Why is the entire OP a quote? Do you lack the intelligence to form your own opinions or even paraphrase and at least pretend the words are yours?

Maybe I should start a thread and just copy-pasta someone else's entire article so that I can seem important.


It's a quote from Milton Friedman I'll edit that in forgot to do so.
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34 / M / Durham, NC
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Posted 10/27/15

Schmooples wrote:

Right, that's why any rich person would be happy to go back in time and live as a rich person millennia ago.

As things progress, quality of life goes up for all - this isn't a trait of capitalism alone. The same would occur under a Communist or Socialist system, too.

However, capitalism allows wealth and benefit to pool near the top. For example, refrigeration lets the working class keep food for long and get it from farther away, but it also allows the wealthy to accumulate more, as well, leading to a steeper difference between the wealthy and working class.


"Yes, the USSR and North Korea were awesome places to live."

"Not Communist and overly authoritarian. You will find few Communists claiming otherwise. In fact, you will find few informed people claiming that either of those were Communist.

Given the massive pressures the USSR faces, it is little surprise that things were fairly rough from the start. The main issues came about under Stalin. This was not an issue with Socialism or Communism so much as it was authoritarian control - exiling or killing opposition, heavily policing people, etc. - and outside pressures."

(I messed up the formatting, above is all previous posts)

It probably hasn't been true for a while, but the DPRK was more developed than the ROK, though just about everything was leveled during the Korean War, and they are probably still better off than poor capitalist countries. Regarding the USSR, military advances might not be the best measure, but consider that the Russian Empire went into WWI not even able to arm all of its soldiers and was defeated, while the USSR won WWII, and Germany had most of its military might in the east fighting the Soviets. The Soviets were also first to do many things in space exploration, which requires an advanced industrial economy. Moving from small peasant agriculture to industrial agriculture and building up industry might have been harsh in the USSR, but it was also harsh in the UK (enclosure, the Satanic mills, prisons for poor people, air pollution, etc.), and it probably had to be done to build the economy and enable the Soviets to stand up to foreign powers.

There is a lack of precision in terminology - a country can be led by communists, and if they are communists in the original Marxist sense, they should be trying to create a socialist economy/society with state ownership and planning, etc. (and unlike so-called Scandinavian socialism) In theory, a communist society built on an advanced industrial economy without classes and with a form of administration to go along with it comes later and I'm not sure any country has ever claimed to be communist in that sense, and Marxists probably wouldn't believe them if they claimed to be the only communist society in a majority capitalist world. China is led by the Chinese Communist Party, but it doesn't seem like a socialist country in the Marxist sense. There is the original "primitive communism" but few if any tribal communities live that way today.
Posted 10/27/15

VZ68 wrote:


Schmooples wrote:

Right, that's why any rich person would be happy to go back in time and live as a rich person millennia ago.

As things progress, quality of life goes up for all - this isn't a trait of capitalism alone. The same would occur under a Communist or Socialist system, too.

However, capitalism allows wealth and benefit to pool near the top. For example, refrigeration lets the working class keep food for long and get it from farther away, but it also allows the wealthy to accumulate more, as well, leading to a steeper difference between the wealthy and working class.


Yes, the USSR and North Korea were awesome places to live.


In the 70s, NK actually had a better standard of living because the USSR was buying their shit goods. Nowadays they turned to Juche and 2/3s of their factories are empty. Back then everyone was wondering "why aren't we as good as NK".
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13 / F / California
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Posted 10/27/15

PeripheralVisionary wrote:


VZ68 wrote:


Schmooples wrote:

Right, that's why any rich person would be happy to go back in time and live as a rich person millennia ago.

As things progress, quality of life goes up for all - this isn't a trait of capitalism alone. The same would occur under a Communist or Socialist system, too.

However, capitalism allows wealth and benefit to pool near the top. For example, refrigeration lets the working class keep food for long and get it from farther away, but it also allows the wealthy to accumulate more, as well, leading to a steeper difference between the wealthy and working class.


Yes, the USSR and North Korea were awesome places to live.


In the 70s, NK actually had a better standard of living because the USSR was buying their shit goods. Nowadays they turned to Juche and 2/3s of their factories are empty. Back then everyone was wondering "why aren't we as good as NK".


I don't remember that back then in the 1970's.....
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