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Post Reply Leela's law
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Posted 11/1/15

silversongwriter wrote:



By the same logic Tarot cards, Quiji boards, meditation, crystal healing, horoscopes, astrology, catholic rosary beads, wishing wells, and good luck charms should all be illegal along with conversion therapy? There's no scientific basis for believing in ghosts, so I guess paranormal research should be illegal too.




Not even close to the same thing.
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Posted 11/1/15 , edited 11/1/15
Considering a law banning conversion therapy would fall under the umbrella of the state's compelling interest to promote and maintain public safety and health, specifically addresses the problem of a hazard to public health and safety by addressing its source (conversion therapy), and is minimally burdensome since it wouldn't do anything other than prohibit people from engaging in clinically ineffective, potentially damaging practices while leaving them free to believe and say what their faith tells them about transgender/homosexual/bisexual people I'm not seeing the whole "assault on the first amendment" angle as a particularly viable one.

Now, show me some indication that Tarot cards, Ouija boards, meditation, crystal healing, horoscopes, astrology, catholic rosary beads, wishing wells, and good luck charms each or all constitute a substantial threat to the aim of promoting and maintaining public health and safety, and that banning them would constitute both an appropriately measured and specifically-tailored response to this threat.
Posted 11/1/15 , edited 11/1/15
I don't know. If horror movies taught me anything, demonic possession via Ouji boards are very dangerous. One should steer clear of them lest they make a pact with a devil.

BAN OUJI BOARDS!


On a more serious note, I support this law from what I've read.
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Posted 11/1/15

Freddy96NO wrote:


Nalaniel wrote:Do you know what conversion therapy means? Your English is hard to understand.
is it not a guy that lissen or talkes with you or maybe I miss understood?
oh its this stuff?

like those things for alcoholics?
Then I guess its just 50/50 and lucky if it works.


"Conversion therapy (also called reparative therapy) is any treatment that aims to change sexual orientation from homosexual to heterosexual." - Wikipedia
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Posted 11/1/15 , edited 11/1/15

PeripheralVisionary wrote:

I don't know. If horror movies taught me anything, demonic possession via Ouji boards are very dangerous. One should steer clear of them lest they make a pact with a devil.

BAN OUJI BOARDS!


Washington, D.C. -

In a stunning display of bipartisanship seldom seen in this period of Congressional stagnation and bickering the Orchestrated Universal Initiative for Justice on the Astroplane (OUIJA) sailed both through the House and Senate with unanimous support and is on the way to President Obama's desk for a signature the President has promised to give. The bill would ban possession of Ouija boards throughout the nation, a measure deemed necessary by recent reports from the Department of Homeland Security tying the wooden slats' use to the appearances of foul spectres and devils over the last week. Attacks by these monsters have driven the death toll to 125,000 so far, with injuries estimated to be between 200,000-250,000 more. The bill also grants the DOJ and DHS broad powers to investigate and prosecute any illegal Ouija board trafficking across US borders, with penalties for violators being set at a mandatory minimum of 25 years in federal prison and a possible recommendation for the death penalty.



On a more serious note, I support this law from what I've read.


Good.
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Posted 11/1/15

Nalaniel wrote:
"Conversion therapy (also called reparative therapy) is any treatment that aims to change sexual orientation from homosexual to heterosexual." - Wikipedia
most be something "new" then sounds idiotic if the there is any aim to change like that.
then I wish such was just out of the system so its not used and many in the christian community feeling ill because of it and what that could be used agianst.


and



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Posted 11/1/15 , edited 11/1/15

Nalaniel wrote:


silversongwriter wrote:
Granted, I do believe we should put age restrictions of conversion therapy, however, I believe banning it all together is an assault on the first ammendemnt.


It has been proven that conversion therapy just messes people up, but I'm sure you don't care.


Nope, I don't. However, I do support age restrictions
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Posted 11/1/15

BlueOni wrote:

Considering a law banning conversion therapy would fall under the umbrella of the state's compelling interest to promote and maintain public safety and health, specifically addresses the problem of a hazard to public health and safety by addressing its source (conversion therapy), and is minimally burdensome since it wouldn't do anything other than prohibit people from engaging in clinically ineffective, potentially damaging practices while leaving them free to believe and say what their faith tells them about transgender/homosexual/bisexual people I'm not seeing the whole "assault on the first amendment" angle as a particularly viable one.

Now, show me some indication that Tarot cards, Ouija boards, meditation, crystal healing, horoscopes, astrology, catholic rosary beads, wishing wells, and good luck charms each or all constitute a substantial threat to the aim of promoting and maintaining public health and safety, and that banning them would constitute both an appropriately measured and specifically-tailored response to this threat.


Okay, so do you support the war on drugs then?
Drugs pose a public health problem, however, it's still a persons freedom to do them. Should meth and heroin be illegal, which they are, but is that right?

Also, if conversion therapy doesn't advertise itself as a "psychiatric practice" then shouldn't that make it okay
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Posted 11/1/15

Morbidhanson wrote:

Sure, you may practice religion in peace, but your rights end where others' rights begin. Use other kinds of therapy that actually provide a benefit. People should not be allowed to infringe on the rights of others merely because "they feel like it" and they "believe is right" due to religion or other subjective reasons.


If you ban the practice, you're doing just that... As long as all people involved are consenting, it's 100% okay to do ANYTHING...

If conversion therapy involved the use of acid baths or amputations, it would 100% okay to do it 100% of the time if the person consents to it.
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Posted 11/1/15 , edited 11/1/15
It is no different than arresting people people for not taking their diabetic child to a doctor. Furthermore, these conversion therapists should also be prosecuted for fraud, because they make false promises to people for money.

Your religious freedom ends precisely where my religious freedom begins. Parents have a right to teach a child whatever they want, but they do not have the right to convert that child at the point of a sword.
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Posted 11/1/15

Ejanss wrote:


silversongwriter wrote:

Now listen, I don't care who calls me a transphobe for my beliefs and my religion. However, I think this "Leela's law" thing people are talking about is a direct assualt on the first ammendement for unjust reasons.


Leela's law?--What, "Obey the Doctor, or I will cut out your heart"?



It was a law inspired by a boy who committed suicide named Joshua "Leela" Alicorn, who was transfemale. Because he committed suicide, and his parents had him in conversion therapy people wanna ban conversion therapy of transpeople all together, and assholes like Dan Savage think the parents should be charged in his death
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Posted 11/1/15 , edited 11/1/15

silversongwriter wrote:

If you ban the practice, you're doing just that... As long as all people involved are consenting, it's 100% okay to do ANYTHING...

If conversion therapy involved the use of acid baths or amputations, it would 100% okay to do it 100% of the time if the person consents to it.


Not exactly. There's no legal consent for something that's considered a to crime. It might be morally okay to do anything if everyone consents, but the law doesn't work that way. Which way is better is up to you, but the law tends to not acknowledge consent to torts and crimes. The more severe it is, the less likely the consent will be acceptable.

You might consent to something that leads to the same result, but you have to be very careful how you word it. For instance, if you are on your deathbed and you want someone to put you out of your misery, you have to tell them not to touch you. You can't tell them to shoot you and pull the plug. It's okay for them to not assist you because you forbid it, but it's not okay for them to shoot you or pull the plug.

There are also questions raised about the validity of the consent. Someone under duress or affected by a mental illness, for instance, should be examined to see if the decision was made with a clear mind. Minors are influenced heavily by parents and guardians so it might be smart to really consider if the consent is really made out of free will after good thought.


silversongwriter wrote:

It was a law inspired by a boy who committed suicide named Joshua "Leela" Alicorn, who was transfemale. Because he committed suicide, and his parents had him in conversion therapy people wanna ban conversion therapy of transpeople all together, and assholes like Dan Savage think the parents should be charged in his death


The parents should only be charged if it can be proven they knew or should've known that the conversion therapy was harmful and reasonably likely to cause Leela to commit suicide. The therapy should be banned if scientific investigation can find that conversion therapy's risks outweigh its benefits. It's not oppression. It's protecting the people from an unjustifiable risk. You can arrive at the same conclusion by taking different trains of thought but that doesn't mean all types of logic used to arrive at that conclusion are wrong.

We might need some conversion therapy guinea pigs first, I am sorry to say, before we have the data necessary to determine whether it is worth it.
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Posted 11/1/15

Morbidhanson wrote:

Not exactly. There's no legal consent for something that's considered a to crime. It might be morally okay to do anything if everyone consents, but the law doesn't work that way. Which way is better is up to you, but the law tends to not acknowledge consent to torts and crimes. The more severe it is, the less likely the consent will be acceptable.

You might consent to something that leads to the same result, but you have to be very careful how you word it. For instance, if you are on your deathbed and you want someone to put you out of your misery, you have to tell them not to touch you. You can't tell them to shoot you and pull the plug. It's okay for them to not assist you because you forbid it, but it's not okay for them to shoot you or pull the plug.

There are also questions raised about the validity of the consent. Someone under duress or affected by a mental illness, for instance, should be examined to see if the decision was made with a clear mind. Minors are influenced heavily by parents and guardians so it might be smart to really consider if the consent is really made out of free will after good thought.


Isn't that a bad thing? It means we aren't allowed to do whatever we want to ourselves? So what our decisions are based on influences, all decisions are like that... For me, free will is only the ability to freely choose between knowledge "data", in our heads. All decisions are influenced by something.

If I sign a contract with someone and consent to letting them shoot me in the face, it should be legal. The problem is the government overstepping it's boundaries and trying to apply value to our lives.


Morbidhanson wrote:

The parents should only be charged if it can be proven they knew or should've known that the conversion therapy was harmful and reasonably likely to cause Leela to commit suicide. The therapy should be banned if scientific investigation can find that conversion therapy's risks outweigh its benefits. It's not oppression. It's protecting the people from an unjustifiable risk. You can arrive at the same conclusion by taking different trains of thought but that doesn't mean all types of logic used to arrive at that conclusion are wrong.


The conversion therapy wasn't illegal, so they shouldn't be charged. The reason he committed suicide is simple... he chose to... He died because he decided to die, there's nothing else to it. And there's nothing wrong with any of the events that took place. He chose to die and he died, he's better off now and he no longer has to deal with gender dysphoria, and the parents no longer have a transgendered son... It should be a win-win for all, since death isn't bad.

Personally, I think conversion therapy should have age restrictions but that's just my opinion
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Posted 11/1/15
Cant we just ban Tumblr?
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Posted 11/1/15

ProfessorFaust wrote:

It is no different than arresting people people for not taking their diabetic child to a doctor. Furthermore, these conversion therapists should also be prosecuted for fraud, because they make false promises to people for money.

Your religious freedom ends precisely where my religious freedom begins. Parents have a right to teach a child whatever they want, but they do not have the right to convert that child at the point of a sword.


So tarot cards and fortune tellers should be arrested since they accept money for something that's unscientific.

Also, diabetes, unlike trangenderism, can kill you. It's his fault for being weak enough to kill himself over it. The dude was weak minded. This boy was no victim of any mental disorder, he was simply unable to handle his own situation
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