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Post Reply Leela's law
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Posted 11/1/15
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Posted 11/1/15

admiral1983 wrote:

Leela's Law something to do with Futurama?


That's why I'm here. Since it has nothing to do with Futurama or Fry...cya....
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Posted 11/1/15

The_anti_coagulant wrote:

The problem here is your belief in religious freedom. The only freedom religious folk have is to argue for their religion. The same way I can't request a religious roommate or women only housing. If I want to practice my religion I have to own my own property and make sure I'm not upsetting anyone by existing. America has made it impossible to have any kind of freedom.

My question is though, if people truly believe one is born into sexualtiy, that it is all in the genetics, why don't they also believe that they may not want to live that way and may need something like this therapy to give them hope?


I agree with you. Exactly... Personally, I believe you cannot change your sexuality though therapy alone, it's something spiritual, but I have no issues with trying it... As long as the actions are regarded as something experimental and not licensed as legit, medical services. I believe they should be done without licensing since it's not legit scientificly backed research.

However, I know for a fact one can overcome being LGBT through the power of the spirit. Personally, I think 90% of these therapists are bullshit. I feel overcoming your gender/sexuality is something that must be done spiritually through an inward journey, not through experimental psuedoscience...

The reason I support these organizations is out of my love for freedom, not cause I think they work.
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Posted 11/1/15 , edited 11/1/15

silversongwriter wrote:

So why is it a big deal though? So what it results in them making the choice to die... It's not resulting in anything objectively negative


A couple of requests for you.

1) Please try to avoid multi-posting. Slowing down a little in making replies should help with that. Not every post requires a direct and immediate response.

2). Please pull back on this line of reasoning (choice of suicide not objectively negative). I realize the topic of suicide is not entirely irrelevant here, but I feel you are emphasizing this particular view about it as a way to stir up extra heat in a discussion that should be centered more on the law you used as the subject of discussion. Please don't turn it toward what's bound to end up inflaming others into a discussion about the morality or pragmatism of suicide instead.

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Posted 11/1/15

silversongwriter wrote:

The reason I support these organizations is out of my love for freedom, not cause I think they work.


Best line :)

What many people in this country don't see is the blatant war on our freedom (what little that remains).

The United States is one country made up of states. Once upon a time these states had the ability to make their own laws as long as they respected the constitution. Now the states' powers have diminished and it feels as if there is no longer a need to distinguish between states.

In a perfect America, it would be divided into 5 regions of states with presidents and laws should be passed 4/5 majority. It would slow the law making process down but that is exactly what we need. This country needs to stop and think. America doesn't have a dream anymore :(

Why is the supreme court getting involved in everything now? Let the state where it happened decide and if other states wish to follow suit then so be it.

*Although, with more googling I just realized this was my state..... oh dear.
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Posted 11/1/15

lorreen wrote:
2). Please pull back on this line of reasoning (choice of suicide not objectively negative). I realize the topic of suicide is not entirely irrelevant here, but I feel you are emphasizing this particular view about it as a way to stir up extra heat in a discussion that should be centered more on the law you used as the subject of discussion. Please don't turn it toward what's bound to end up inflaming others into a discussion about the morality or pragmatism of suicide instead.



Yea, but the thing is I know for a fact that conversion therapy will cause more suicides than converted LGBT people... I'm not stupid. I know I'm defending something that is more likely to drive someone into killing themselves rather than help them in any way shape or form...

In order to defend a practice, that I know is going to cause transgendered people to become more suicidal, I need to argue that the freedom of religion is of more value than the lives of transgendered people. I'm not sure how I can argue against anti-suicide legislature without arguing that suicide is always okay so long as it doesn't affect others.

For me to condemn a law that I KNOW would save human lives, I would have to argue that the lives of these people are not worth saving.
Just like in order for me to argue that heroin should be legal, I'd have to make a case that the feeling heroin addicts feel when they get high is of greater value than their life...


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Posted 11/1/15
What's sad is the world is going to keep evolving and you're just going to be left behind with stupid ideas like this.
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Posted 11/1/15

The_anti_coagulant wrote:


silversongwriter wrote:

The reason I support these organizations is out of my love for freedom, not cause I think they work.


Best line :)

What many people in this country don't see is the blatant war on our freedom (what little that remains).

The United States is one country made up of states. Once upon a time these states had the ability to make their own laws as long as they respected the constitution. Now the states' powers have diminished and it feels as if there is no longer a need to distinguish between states.

In a perfect America, it would be divided into 5 regions of states with presidents and laws should be passed 4/5 majority. It would slow the law making process down but that is exactly what we need. This country needs to stop and think. America doesn't have a dream anymore :(

Why is the supreme court getting involved in everything now? Let the state where it happened decide and if other states wish to follow suit then so be it.

*Although, with more googling I just realized this was my state..... oh dear.


There is a difference between supporting freedom of speech and supporting phony psychology techniques that are more about abuse then helping people.
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Posted 11/1/15
Freedom without protection is just pandemonium. You don't need a government if you want complete freedom. That goes against what a government stands for and what a government is supposed to do, which is, well....govern.
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Posted 11/1/15 , edited 11/1/15

PapaGregory wrote:

There is a difference between supporting freedom of speech and supporting phony psychology techniques that are more about abuse then helping people.


And there's a difference between restricting things to minors and banning something altogether. Treating your kids illness with homeopathy is abuse, because homeopathy is bullshit. However, should it be illegal to make homeopathic remedies altogether?


Morbidhanson wrote:

Freedom without protection is just pandemonium. You don't need a government if you want complete freedom. That goes against what a government stands for and what a government is supposed to do, which is, well....govern.



Which is what I support...

Murder is the infringement of ones freedom, therefore it should be illegal and it's wrong.
Suicide, conversion therapy for adults, and drugs do not infringe on anyones freedom, therefore, they're automatically okay

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Posted 11/1/15 , edited 11/1/15

silversongwriter wrote:


Morbidhanson wrote:

Freedom without protection is just pandemonium. You don't need a government if you want complete freedom. That goes against what a government stands for and what a government is supposed to do, which is, well....govern.



Which is what I support...

Murder is the infringement of ones freedom, therefore it should be illegal and it's wrong.
Suicide, conversion therapy for adults, and drugs do not infringe on anyones freedom, therefore, they're automatically okay


Well, nothing is keeping you from leaving the territory of your country. There's no law against that. To live in a country, to reap the benefits of citizenship and government protection, without following the rules is like going into someone's house and doing what you want against the wishes of the host.

Non-infringement on freedom is not the only thing to consider when deciding whether something is okay. There needs to be more. It's like saying that not going to school is not an infringement of freedom so it is always okay. Include more factors and address the elephant in the room. What effect does death have upon people and those close to the deceased?
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Posted 11/1/15 , edited 11/1/15

PapaGregory wrote:

There is a difference between supporting freedom of speech and supporting phony psychology techniques that are more about abuse then helping people.


I don't disagree but do you believe congress has the right to make that decision for you? I believe I should have the opportunity to vote on this. The real issue is not the content of the law but how it will be passed without the citizens of the country being involved. There is a famous quote that talks about people not caring about laws that affect others until people don't stand with them. I don't want this country to become like that but it might be too late. If someone like Trump stepped into the ring it could just as easily turn into a country forcing this therapy on all.

I don't wish for you to change what you believe about the therapy but at least understand that it should go through the hands of the citizens. Legislation doesn't change hate and misunderstanding. Education does.
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Posted 11/1/15

silversongwriter wrote:


PapaGregory wrote:

There is a difference between supporting freedom of speech and supporting phony psychology techniques that are more about abuse then helping people.


And there's a difference between restricting things to minors and banning something altogether. Treating your kids illness with homeopathy is abuse, because homeopathy is bullshit. However, should it be illegal to make homeopathic remedies altogether?


Yeah because again they don't work, its the same reason why doctors can't prescribe leeches if you are giving medical techniques that would harm a person severely in a psychological and physical since then it should't be illegal no matter if there is consent
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Posted 11/1/15 , edited 11/1/15

Morbidhanson wrote:

Freedom without protection is just pandemonium. You don't need a government if you want complete freedom. That goes against what a government stands for and what a government is supposed to do, which is, well....govern.


You are very lucky to have a government that follows it's own rules and governs you. You probably don't even have to worry about furloughs every 2 years or paying for social security you won't receive. I am truly jealous.
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