Post Reply What's the problem with the Anime industry?
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Posted 11/17/15
I Supported Crunchyroll for THREE YEARS STRAIGHT and I see no movement toward a equitable delivery system to pay and support developers. Even when you buy the merchandise, you rarely see any movement toward 2nd seasons and such.

What do I mean?

1. A Tv Channel that has commercials, etc that support the developers and ensure they are paid when they work hard.

a. HBO, STARS, etc have a single movie generating 40 Million dollars and you normally pay 10 bucks a month. Does that make sense? An argument can be made that Anime is niche but with over 20 million viewers in the US alone.
b. Not a single person can tell me that anime has less viewers than the Cartoon channel, Bravo, the History channel, OWN, CLOO, CSPAN, etc.

2. A website that shows all of the anime’s available and at least gives you a choice to support some shows or not.
a. Funimation holds licenses and has a channel but its WAYY behind current content and they don't even show HALF of the latest and greatest. For Instance, Asterisk, Comet Lucifer, Owari no seraph and a host of other shows.
b. Next up, you have Crunchyroll, where’s One Punch Man, Overlord (last season), Rakudai Kishi no cavalry, Noragami, Heavy Object, etc
c. Who’s going to pay 7 dollars a month and only get 4 or 5 shows they like a season? or pay 7 dollars EACH for three sites just to have the content that you want (while reading the dialogue)?
d. So basically its assumed that people are going to pay 20-30 dollars a month for 4-6 hours of weekly content (30 min a show, so that would equate to 8 to 12 shows).

3. Series with cliffhangers and no follow-up.
a. Beyond the Boundary, Btooom, Deadman Wonderland, Baccano, Samurai Champloo, Angel Beats, Hidan no Aria, Spice and Wolf (3rd season), etc. Need I go on?

I’m sorry if its long winded and I searched and didn’t find any recent thread about the industry as a whole (I’m probably missed it somehow). In Short, I don’t think people are going to pay 30+ dollars EVERY MONTH for a subtitled, low quality (in most instances), 6-8 hours of weekly content. Most people aren’t even willing to pay for the premium content on Cable and many others are “cutting the cord”. You can’t ask people to pay that much when they need to eat or justify paying 30+ when your kid needs a jacket and other stuff. I’m just saying….

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Posted 11/17/15

ccobb258 wrote:

I Supported Crunchyroll for THREE YEARS STRAIGHT and I see no movement toward a equitable delivery system to pay and support developers. Even when you buy the merchandise, you rarely see any movement toward 2nd seasons and such.

What do I mean?

1. A Tv Channel that has commercials, etc that support the developers and ensure they are paid when they work hard.

a. HBO, STARS, etc have a single movie generating 40 Million dollars and you normally pay 10 bucks a month. Does that make sense? An argument can be made that Anime is niche but with over 20 million viewers in the US alone.

HBO has different ways of making money that aren't just subscription. The Main Character drinks a Pepsi on screen = $Money$. As well as being payed by the Cable/Satellite companies.

Source? Because Crunchyroll roll just released an article that stated they had 700,000 paying members (worldwide). And I doubt the other anime streaming (legal) have that many members in the US. But also add in the dvd/bd sales.
But after CR/Funi/etc pay the license fee, very little of the money goes back to Japan.


2. A website that shows all of the anime’s available and at least gives you a choice to support some shows or not.
a. Funimation holds licenses and has a channel but its WAYY behind current content and they don't even show HALF of the latest and greatest. For Instance, Asterisk, Comet Lucifer, Owari no seraph and a host of other shows.
b. Next up, you have Crunchyroll, where’s One Punch Man, Overlord (last season), Rakudai Kishi no cavalry, Noragami, Heavy Object, etc
c. Who’s going to pay 7 dollars a month and only get 4 or 5 shows they like a season? or pay 7 dollars EACH for three sites just to have the content that you want (while reading the dialogue)?
d. So basically its assumed that people are going to pay 20-30 dollars a month for 4-6 hours of weekly content (30 min a show, so that would equate to 8 to 12 shows).
But said business would have a monopoly on the anime in the US and could charge $50 a month, because there is no competition thus no reason to keep there prices cheap. Basically they will try to get as much money out of people as possible.


I’m sorry if its long winded and I searched and didn’t find any recent thread about the industry as a whole (I’m probably missed it somehow). In Short, I don’t think people are going to pay 30+ dollars EVERY MONTH for a subtitled, low quality (in most instances), 6-8 hours of weekly content. Most people aren’t even willing to pay for the premium content on Cable and many others are “cutting the cord”. You can’t ask people to pay that much when they need to eat or justify paying 30+ when your kid needs a jacket and other stuff. I’m just saying….


I have CR/Funi/Hulu and I only pay $17 a month (the equivalent since I pay the $40 annually for Funimation), which isn't bad considering I don't need to pay for Cable/Satellite.

People always complain about money, but do you realize that you can still watch anime for free (but with ads) on CR. Unless suffering through ads is somehow worse than not being able eat or paying for your kids.
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Posted 11/17/15 , edited 11/17/15

ccobb258 wrote:


b. Next up, you have Crunchyroll, where’s One Punch Man, Overlord (last season), Rakudai Kishi no cavalry, Noragami, Heavy Object, etc
c. Who’s going to pay 7 dollars a month and only get 4 or 5 shows they like a season? or pay 7 dollars EACH for three sites just to have the content that you want (while reading the dialogue)?




Those few shows already sound pretty good. Here (germany) we got exactly six new simulcasts this season (+all those short anime) and those are

- Kidou Senshi Gundam: Tekketsu no Orphans (Gundam: Iron-Blooded Orphans) - 1 Woche nach Daisuki
- Yuru Yuri San☆Hai!
- Osomatsu-san
- Hokuto no Ken: Ichigo Aji (DD Fist of the North Star: Strawberry Flavor)
- Subete ga F ni Naru: The Perfect Insider
- The Testament of Sister New Devil BURST

and with such a line-up CR is the biggest legal anime streaming website in germany. The next biggest one has 4 simulcasts. Half of the new shows aren't even licensed over here or only get a DVD release. I'd be glad if I had the chance to watch all of them, even if I had to use more than one website. So I can't understand the complaining. With 40€ per year CR is pretty cheap (at least cheaper than the other german streaming websites) and your $7 don't sound too bad either. It already offers a lot of anime, so you should rather appreciate the ones you get
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Posted 11/17/15 , edited 11/17/15

ccobb258 wrote:


3. Series with cliffhangers and no follow-up.
a. Beyond the Boundary, Btooom, Deadman Wonderland, Baccano, Samurai Champloo, Angel Beats, Hidan no Aria, Spice and Wolf (3rd season), etc. Need I go on?
.



Angel Beats and Samurai Champloo had a conclusive ending, I really don't see your issue here.

As for the others, it's hard to accept but the companies just don't see enough of a demand to justify the cost of making sequels to those series. As much as I'd love to see a second season for Baccano, it flopped in Japan and it's only natural that no one is interested in investing in producing something that their local audience don't care for. Not to mention most anime exist to advertise the original material; if it has an open ending then that gives another incentive for fans to purchase the manga or light novel

Things ARE starting to change however as Funimation, Crunchyroll and Netflix all showed interest in contributing to the production of anime. So there is a possibility that the anime industry will start to consider what the West wants.
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Posted 11/17/15
Stopped taking the post seriously on 2.

2a. Clearly you don't use FUNi at all if you think they don't have any current simulcasts.

2b. Licenses are a bitch aren't they? One company can't have everything. Even if it did though... Licenses eventually dry up then the company (in this case CR) has to make the choice: Do we renew said license contract even if it is possibly a net loss for us because not many people would be watching it? (That of course assumes the company that made such show is still around or is even bothering with said shows license anymore)

2c. Do you realize just how good of a deal $7 a month IS for even just ONE show? I mean honestly I am sure a company could get away with $7 an episode given the costs going into making shows. So $7 a month for 4 or 5 shows is amazing. But it also tells me you are way too picky on tastes. This season personally for me is shit, I am still watching over 10 shows though.

Also nothing I watch from CR, FUNi, Hulu, Daisuki, Viz, etc has been low quality for when it was released. Usually it is in fact watching on illegal sites that have the crap quality unless you are willing to risk your computer in downloading an HQ version.
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Posted 11/17/15 , edited 11/17/15
99% of it is just due to opportunity cost. If you're going to make a new cable TV channel, for example, it's safe bet dedicating it to anime wouldn't make as much money as other things you could do with it. Because of that the investors lose money, since they're not earning as much as they could have by investing in some other new channel.

Same goes for incomplete adaptations, the resources and work force to make anime has to be allocated from a finite pool and the investors will aim to back projects that maximize their profits, otherwise they lose money. This usually means complete adaptations are out of the question as they would eat up way too many resources and work hours.

Additionally it's generally rare for the goal of an adaptation to be a complete retelling of the story. If you have a successful property it's very likely being diversified across multiple media. You'll have light novels, manga, anime, many different kinds of games including for mobile, visual novels, even plays and musicals which have taken off recently.

The goal isn't to reproduce the property in its entirety in each medium, but to create a piece of the story in any media people may want to experience it in. And if they want more they can always pick up the original. That leaves non-Japanese speakers in a bit of a lurch, but we also aren't foremost in the minds of industry business people.



By this it'd be smarter for them to invest in more pachinko machines, so yeah... also remember this is anime numbers only and doesn't reflect the sale of source material like light novels, manga, etc.; I'm also not sure if internet distribution (4) includes overseas streaming like CR or if that's strictly domestic with CR being included in overseas (7).

But merchandise is huge, which is why companies involved in making merchandise for anime and similar material will invest directly in anime and be on the production committee for a show as it is being made, which again brings us back to opportunity costs. Those investors want to optimize their profits, within their particular sphere of business.

Also I could be wrong but I recall the west isn't even the biggest source of overseas income for anime, which is predominantly mainland Asia (particularly South Korea and China/Taiwan). Although the US does do a lion's share of overseas licensing, both Taiwan and South Korea and compete with us evenly. China is also a big emerging market.

Also back to TV channels for a sec there are channels in Japan that do take a very active interest in anime, not only in helping produce shows but actually owning majority shares in anime studios. And if you've heard of Noitamina that's a project by Fuji Television they've committed to investing quite a bit of time and resources into that is of broad benefit.

Centralizing all anime in one place under one subscription would be a monopoly, which isn't great for the long term even if it does offer initial conveniences. But we've seen competition between CR and Funimation egg them both into more direct involvement with the anime industry, which is probably a good thing. Both are beginning to be first party investors.

Which, possibly, stands to make the most immediate impact from our perspective on things. Because the people investing directly in the anime being made want to optimize their profits, and when those people are CR and Funimation, not as licensees, but as producers, ideally thinking that gives us as an audience a voice through them in that process.


The landscape is definitely changing, don't doubt that. We've got Pony Canyon marketing directly to us now following in the tracks of Aniplex, Japanese businesses are becoming more aware of international markets both in the west and in Asia. And we have companies like CR and Funimation taking more active roles in the industry in Japan as well.

It's a process, and no process is perfect, but this one is far from done evolving.
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