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Post Reply Are preorders and season passes/dlc ruining gaming?
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22 / M / Fraxinus
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Posted 11/23/15 , edited 11/23/15

Ranwolf wrote:

Mate you must be a hella a lot younger then the 21 years ya claiming if you can say that with a straight face. Publishers have been releasing buggy games since the days of Pong for crying out loud. The only thing that has changed in recent years is that developers now have a way of patching those bugs post release.


I'm not saying games in the days before pre-ordering and DLC never had bugs. What I'm saying is that it has become more acceptable to release games without fixing them before release. So many games have to patch on day one, for crying out loud. If that's not a result of publishers more or less forcing releases I don't know what is.
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Posted 11/23/15
Simply look at what a game has before you buy it. If it has a "season pass" or tons of DLC, or low amounts of content chance is the whole thing won't be worth the money just yet.
Prices drop, full editions are released. Especially for single player stuff if you can just wait a year or two you get to:
a) play the game for cheap
b) ruin the publishers plan to grab money from you
c) have a good chance to actually play a bug free game


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28 / M / Baton Rouge, Loui...
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Posted 11/23/15
I'm not a fan of paying money on a game after paying money on a game but if I'm gonna pay money on a game after paying money to buy the game, it better be on something that I don't need so I can feel like I had a choice in the matter.
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29 / M / B.C, Canada
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Posted 11/23/15

Frenzify wrote:

[I'm not saying games in the days before pre-ordering and DLC never had bugs. What I'm saying is that it has become more acceptable to release games without fixing them before release. So many games have to patch on day one, for crying out loud. If that's not a result of publishers more or less forcing releases I don't know what is.


It was never really about whether or not it was ever acceptable about releasing them bug free or not. And comparing the days of yore to now gaming wise is rather odd. The coding for say a N64 game is child's play compared to a Xbox One, PS4, or newer PC games. With the demand of gamers for their games to be bigger,better, and even more interactive the coding and software have to be pushed to the limits. And as any decent programmer, or hell mechanic will tell ya the more complex ya make something the more likely something can and will likely go wrong. There is no way other then years of stress testing a finished game to find each and every single bug . And considering it can take years just to get a triple A title to market adding years of stress testing atop of that isn't financially feasible. I don't care how dedicated a publisher is, at the end of the day the lights have to stay on and people gotta eat. Just be glad it is actually possible to fix the issues that pop up. Or do you seriously want to go back to the days were bugs were there permanently? 'Cause if you do I say ya need your head checked.

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22 / M / Fraxinus
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Posted 11/23/15 , edited 11/23/15

Ranwolf wrote:


Frenzify wrote:

[I'm not saying games in the days before pre-ordering and DLC never had bugs. What I'm saying is that it has become more acceptable to release games without fixing them before release. So many games have to patch on day one, for crying out loud. If that's not a result of publishers more or less forcing releases I don't know what is.


It was never really about whether or not it was ever acceptable about releasing them bug free or not. And comparing the days of yore to now gaming wise is rather odd. The coding for say a N64 game is child's play compared to a Xbox One, PS4, or newer PC games. With the demand of gamers for their games to be bigger,better, and even more interactive the coding and software have to be pushed to the limits. And as any decent programmer, or hell mechanic will tell ya the more complex ya make something the more likely something can and will likely go wrong. There is no way other then years of stress testing a finished game to find each and every single bug . And considering it can take years just to get a triple A title to market adding years of stress testing atop of that isn't financially feasible. I don't care how dedicated a publisher is, at the end of the day the lights have to stay on and people gotta eat. Just be glad it is actually possible to fix the issues that pop up. Or do you seriously want to go back to the days were bugs were there permanently? 'Cause if you do I say ya need your head checked.



Bugs played a small part in my entire original post, and you seem to be fixated on the idea that I have some rage-fuelled vendetta against all bugs. I take issue with publishers rushing developers and thusly ending up with subpar games as a result. Bugs may be one of the problems but there could also be wonky mechanics, a lack of options, shoddy graphics and performance issues. Not just bugs, like you're making out my entire argument to be.

Nowhere have I said that I take issue with developers being able to fix their games. Nowhere did I say I'd like to go back to the days where if a game was broken there was nothing you could do about, so I don't much appreciate the insult based on things I didn't even say. Like I said before, I take issue with publishers rushing developers, and bad games being the result. I take issue with the fact that this will mean patches on day one that should have been fixed pre-launch, had they been given more time. Because you seem to be straying from what I was originally arguing, I'll repeat that I believe pre-order culture contributes towards the publisher rushing the developer, since people would want the game they paid for in advance.

I know you can't just sit on a project, try to constantly perfect it and never release it, but since I write, I'll liken it to an author releasing a book. You would never expect an author to just churn out early drafts of their books, every year, or two years or what have you; it would be rampant with grammatical and selling errors, that an editor should have caught. Of course even a final draft would have errors, but much fewer. Likewise, a developer shouldn't release a game "unfinished" due to being rushed; there will be issues with the game that could have been fixed with more time. Of course there'd likely be issues regardless of how much time there were given, but much fewer. But this is just how things are.
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18 / M / Summoners Rift
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Posted 11/23/15

Ranwolf wrote:


Legendzerox wrote:

The age old debate on whether or not this is runing gaming. Even if you don't believe it, please be mindful that at a business standpoint, people throwing money at you when you haven't created anything yet, wouldn't you be lazy and half ass it so you can secure more profit? After all. the money is already in your hands.

With season passes, I've been seeing more and more developers cut stuff out of their game and sell it as dlc. Destiny has been a prime example of this. Recently, Fallout 4 has had a harpoon gun discovered in the resources and may lead to Fallout 4 cutting some underwater gameplay out to sell it as dlc.

Also regarding Fallout, or Bethseda in general: If you haven't noticed, the world spaces they use in their open world games gets smaller and smaller with every game they release, and the gameplay is dumbed down. The writing is pretty terrible to boot, but look at their sales. Despite Bethseda selling a downgraded version of their games (except graphics). their sales have increased over the years instead of decreased even though the games they release are a lot smaller than previous games.

Despite what your opinion on the subject is, please be mindful that game companies could be trying to nickel and dime you and are using current business models to milk every dollar they can.

While I am having fun playing Fallout 4, I can't help but be overly disappointed to the whole presentation. You can move from one end of the map to the other in less than 15 minutes, the game is oversimplified and removed the perk system which made Fallout 3 awesome, and despite a post apocalyptic world, it feels stale and shallow. Bethseda is continuing its downward spiral of their ips and haven't delivered a great narrative experience since Oblivion. Part of the blame stems from current business practices where the developers have all the money in their hands before the game is even released. This will be the last game I buy, period. Until a brief of time has passed. As long as people keep preordering, buying season passes which is just a big bookmark and free money for the developer, and buying half asses non essential dlc, gaming will continue to be nickel and dimed until people take a stand with their wallets.



Okay ya almost had me till the Fallout 4 bashing started. Yeah the RPG elements of the game have been dumbed down to oblivion but the game finally feels like a proper shooter and less like some random modder found out how to put guns in Skyrim which is what fallout 3 and to a lesser extent New Vegas felt like. Combat finally feels fluid enough to make VATS so unnecessary that I wonder why it is in the game at all. And honestly who liked the way 3 did the Perk system. As a combat veteran I can tell you once ya know how to handle a basic assault rifle ya can usually figure anything else. Fallout 4 obviously benefited from someone who knew one end of a gun from another. Though it does still insist on separating bolt action from automatics skill wise.

As for the whole DLC, thing stop being so melodramatic. In this day and age people vote with their wallet. And companies that do DLC badly tend to have it reflected in their marketshare. DLC is fine when it expands upon the base game in a way that makes sense. After all there is only so much space on one disk or digital download. And given how memory hungry next gen gaming is I don't mind taking my game in bite sized chunks.


I think that DLC is great to some extent. Like if there is a DLC pack that could've been on the disk at launch that shouldn't have been DLC. But I agree with the as long as it adds onto the game thing.
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23 / M / San Diego, CA
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Posted 11/23/15 , edited 11/23/15
I detest DLC. Never bought it, never will buy it. The whole practice just feels wrong to me.
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22 / M / California
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Posted 11/23/15
I don't mind DLC once time has passed since a game's release.
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