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Post Reply Stunning and Brave Teen Who Made Bomb-Styled Clock To Teach Us Not To Unjustly Profile Others Asks For $15 Million For T
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F / The Great White N...
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Posted 11/23/15
Oh he's suing now? That's great. When I first heard this case I lost respect for this world. How can some people be so rude?
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Posted 11/23/15
As much as I thought the school system was bigoted....15 million? Thats tax payer money, don't think he deserves it for that. He deserves an apology, not the right to become a millionaire.
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21 / M / Massachusetts
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Posted 11/23/15

maxgale wrote:


Insanerino wrote:

A clear violation of rights mixed with ethnic profiling? Check.
Extremely bias and questionable news source with a history of inaccurate reporting? Check.
Attempt at 'counter controversy' by trying to make victim into villain, by saying the clock was actually a bomb, and that the event was also staged?

3 strikes and you're out.
I mean it's like obviously making a ridiculous statement.




Where to begin.


Clear violation of rights? What does the law say?




Texas Penal Code, Section 46.08 - Hoax Bombs



CHAPTER 46. WEAPONS

§ 46.08. HOAX BOMBS. (a) A person commits an offense if the person knowingly manufactures, sells, purchases, transports, or possesses a hoax bomb with intent to use the hoax bomb to:
(1) make another believe that the hoax bomb is an explosive or incendiary device; or
(2) cause alarm or reaction of any type by an official of a public safety agency or volunteer agency organized to deal with emergencies.
(b) An offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor.



The kid was asked by his first teacher to put the "clock" away as others might believe it to be a bomb. He refused. He intended to cause alarm and guess what, it obviously worked.







Don't like Fox News?


What about Far Left Yahoo news?


http://news.yahoo.com/ahmed-clock-kid-family-demand-15-million-city-200237924.html



What about Left-leaning BBC?


http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-34904226







Attempt to avoid admitting your were wrong, by not addressing the facts presented but who presented it?




What were you saying about three strikes?


Every account of events I've been able to find has consistently held it that Ahmed maintained it was a clock throughout the event and following investigation. He seems to have made no explicit attempts to provoke a response from law enforcement or other officials. But then your argument relies on his attempts being implicit rather than explicit, that he was hoping to provoke a response by simply showing the clock off. This is however undermined by him repeatedly insisting that it was not a bomb to his teachers and law enforcement officials. Suggesting that this was all part of an elaborate scheme to provoke that response anyway is speculative. You can't actually know what he was thinking by continuing to have the clock out on display. If he was just showing it off without explaining what it was you might be able to make that argument, but he repeatedly stated it was just a clock. There is no way to prove his intent was to willfully provoke a reaction from law enforcement, and his actual behavior consisted of numerous attempts to assuage fears on the part of school officials and later law enforcement. There were no reasonable grounds to press charges, something the police officers realized as this never actually went to court.

As for the lawsuit itself, yes I think the sum is outrageously exorbitant. I don't think it's completely unreasonable to sue for damages in the wake of a bungled police response, but certainly not for that amount.
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21 / M / US
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Posted 11/23/15
This is so stupid...
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Posted 11/23/15

maxgale wrote:

The outrage is less so much over the court of law but rather about the court of public opinion. Even now, by the responses here, those who were guilty of libel are too cowardly or sure of their righteousness that they cannot admit they were wrong about the facts and wrong about those who were right.


Well, the court of public opinion only counts for so much here. I'm more interested in what the courts themselves do, and I don't particularly claim to know what that will or ought to be.


And ouch. Low blow there.


>Asks for honesty
>Gets honesty
>Complains about getting honesty





Was referring to those whose political ideology demands that they shout down those advocating common sense and the rule of law if that intrudes upon the "safe space" they desire to turn society into.


At the very least I hope I have proven over the course of our discussions thus far that I am a person who fits comfortably in on the left side of the political spectrum who is unafraid of engaging opposing points of view even if I am passionate about my beliefs, who roots her arguments in substantive and logical argumentation, and who sincerely considers thoughtful counterarguments. I believe there are more of us than you give credit for, but there's nothing I can do about that. All I can say is that my understanding is that the SJWs you so despise are largely middle teenagers who are only modestly politically engaged and may not actually be interested in what they're talking about at all, and that a number of SJW blogs are actually troll blogs.

I'd also say that you should lighten up on Coolio, who is actually pretty cool and seems to be sincerely engaged. That's not a fire to be killed.
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Posted 11/23/15


Whoa whoa whoa man, let's not jump to conclusions. Just because I hate Fox news and their bad reporting doesn't make me a leftist.
Detainment and interrogation without probably cause is a violation of rights.
The local police department and its specialists analyzed the device and found that it was not an explosive device, which is why he's innocent.
The teacher didn't tell him to put it away, the teacher actually immediately called the principal about the situation before talking to the student.
If the source isn't credible, it doesn't make me wrong to refuse to argue non credible information.
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28 / M / USA! USA! USA!
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Posted 11/23/15 , edited 11/23/15

vanguard1234523 wrote:



Every account of events I've been able to find has consistently held it that Ahmed maintained it was a clock throughout the event and following investigation. He seems to have made no explicit attempts to provoke a response from law enforcement or other officials. But then your argument relies on his attempts being implicit rather than explicit, that he was hoping to provoke a response by simply showing the clock off. This is however undermined by him repeatedly insisting that it was not a bomb to his teachers and law enforcement officials. Suggesting that this was all part of an elaborate scheme to provoke that response anyway is speculative. You can't actually know what he was thinking by continuing to have the clock out on display. If he was just showing it off without explaining what it was you might be able to make that argument, but he repeatedly stated it was just a clock. There is no way to prove his intent was to willfully provoke a reaction from law enforcement, and his actual behavior consisted of numerous attempts to assuage fears on the part of school officials and later law enforcement. There were no reasonable grounds to press charges, something the police officers realized as this never actually went to court.

As for the lawsuit itself, yes I think the sum is outrageously exorbitant. I don't think it's completely unreasonable to sue for damages in the wake of a bungled police response, but certainly not for that amount.




He was also insistent on not putting it away when asked, it apparently went off in multiple classes (which it could only have been programmed to do, meaning it was intentional to making suspicious noises and draw attention to it), and he refused to do anything more than state "It's a clock" to the police and school authorities, and not answer any questions regarding the previously mentioned facts.



We can then look at his father, who has a rather shady history, and now with these new facts of the $15 million dollar lawsuit make a reasonable guess as to the motives behind the affair.






BlueOni wrote:


maxgale wrote:

The outrage is less so much over the court of law but rather about the court of public opinion. Even now, by the responses here, those who were guilty of libel are too cowardly or sure of their righteousness that they cannot admit they were wrong about the facts and wrong about those who were right.


Well, the court of public opinion only counts for so much here. I'm more interested in what the courts themselves do, and I don't particularly claim to know what that will or ought to be.


And ouch. Low blow there.


>Asks for honesty
>Gets honesty
>Complains about getting honesty





Was referring to those whose political ideology demands that they shout down those advocating common sense and the rule of law if that intrudes upon the "safe space" they desire to turn society into.


At the very least I hope I have proven over the course of our discussions thus far that I am a person who fits comfortably in on the left side of the political spectrum who is unafraid of engaging opposing points of view even if I am passionate about my beliefs, who roots her arguments in substantive and logical argumentation, and who sincerely considers thoughtful counterarguments. I believe there are more of us than you give credit for, but there's nothing I can do about that. All I can say is that my understanding is that the SJWs you so despise are largely middle teenagers who are only modestly politically engaged and may not actually be interested in what they're talking about at all, and that a number of SJW blogs are actually troll blogs.

I'd also say that you should lighten up on Coolio, who is actually pretty cool and seems to be sincerely engaged. That's not a fire to be killed.



Except that while it shouldn't count for much, it unfortunately does: and leads to people losing their careers, or more, as we have seen recently in France.






#NotAllLawyers







When 40% of Millennials say they are for restricting freedom of speech, and more than one-third of Democrats saying so, it's more than just a few teens or fringe members of the Left.


http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/11/20/40-of-millennials-ok-with-limiting-speech-offensive-to-minorities/





I think I've been fair to Coolio, and I always leave the kid gloves on when discussing things in general on Crunchy.






Insanerino wrote:




Whoa whoa whoa man, let's not jump to conclusions. Just because I hate Fox news and their bad reporting doesn't make me a leftist.
Detainment and interrogation without probably cause is a violation of rights.
The local police department and its specialists analyzed the device and found that it was not an explosive device, which is why he's innocent.
The teacher didn't tell him to put it away, the teacher actually immediately called the principal about the situation before talking to the student.
If the source isn't credible, it doesn't make me wrong to refuse to argue non credible information.




They did have probable cause, however, and I even posted the relevant part of the penal code describing so.


He is innocent of not bringing an actual bomb, but not innocent of breaking the law. He was not prosecuted due to the political and economic pressure that was placed on the city and law enforcement.


The teacher told him to put it away, he refused, and it occurred in several other classes until one teacher finally told the principal.


The source was credible, and several more were offered.
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21 / M / Massachusetts
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Posted 11/23/15

maxgale wrote:


vanguard1234523 wrote:



Every account of events I've been able to find has consistently held it that Ahmed maintained it was a clock throughout the event and following investigation. He seems to have made no explicit attempts to provoke a response from law enforcement or other officials. But then your argument relies on his attempts being implicit rather than explicit, that he was hoping to provoke a response by simply showing the clock off. This is however undermined by him repeatedly insisting that it was not a bomb to his teachers and law enforcement officials. Suggesting that this was all part of an elaborate scheme to provoke that response anyway is speculative. You can't actually know what he was thinking by continuing to have the clock out on display. If he was just showing it off without explaining what it was you might be able to make that argument, but he repeatedly stated it was just a clock. There is no way to prove his intent was to willfully provoke a reaction from law enforcement, and his actual behavior consisted of numerous attempts to assuage fears on the part of school officials and later law enforcement. There were no reasonable grounds to press charges, something the police officers realized as this never actually went to court.

As for the lawsuit itself, yes I think the sum is outrageously exorbitant. I don't think it's completely unreasonable to sue for damages in the wake of a bungled police response, but certainly not for that amount.




He was also insistent on not putting it away when asked, it apparently went off in multiple classes (which it could only have been programmed to do, meaning it was intentional to making suspicious noises and draw attention to it), and he refused to do anything more than state "It's a clock" to the police and school authorities, and not answer any questions regarding the previously mentioned facts.



We can then look at his father, who has a rather shady history, and now with these new facts of the $15 million dollar lawsuit make a reasonable guess as to the motives behind the affair.


it's a clock, clocks beep dude. it's like someone setting an alarm on their phones and it going off, just significantly less common since not everyone makes one from scratch. And again stating it's a clock sort of defeats the purpose of staging a hoax. I mean at the very least this would have to be a very halfhearted attempt given his constantly undermining his own bomb hoax by repeatedly saying his bomb wasn't a bomb. There isn't any legal basis here, if there was he would've been prosecuted. As it happens no legal charges were filed because they didn't have a case.

As for the rest, uh yeah sure. Sorry but that's fishwives' gossip levels of speculation. If I'm going to be cynical about this I'm going to assume this is them capitalizing on the situation rather than it all being part of a carefully orchestrated ruse. That frankly makes far more sense.
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Posted 11/23/15
Why do we care about this again?



BlueOni wrote:
At the very least I hope I have proven over the course of our discussions thus far that I am a person who fits comfortably in on the left side of the political spectrum who is unafraid of engaging opposing points of view even if I am passionate about my beliefs, who roots her arguments in substantive and logical argumentation, and who sincerely considers thoughtful counterarguments. I believe there are more of us than you give credit for, but there's nothing I can do about that. All I can say is that my understanding is that the SJWs you so despise are largely middle teenagers who are only modestly politically engaged and may not actually be interested in what they're talking about at all, and that a number of SJW blogs are actually troll blogs.

I'd also say that you should lighten up on Coolio, who is actually pretty cool and seems to be sincerely engaged. That's not a fire to be killed.


Woah girl, those are some strong statements there. I'm not sure I'm ready to commit to believing people who say stuff like this.
mel823 
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Posted 11/23/15
Good for him. He should sue their moronic asses. He most likely won't get that amount and It would probably be settled out of court.
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22 / M / Arizona
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Posted 11/23/15
Aint that some shit. Maybe I need to bring a "clock" to school sometime.
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28 / M / USA! USA! USA!
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Posted 11/23/15

vanguard1234523 wrote:


maxgale wrote:


vanguard1234523 wrote:



Every account of events I've been able to find has consistently held it that Ahmed maintained it was a clock throughout the event and following investigation. He seems to have made no explicit attempts to provoke a response from law enforcement or other officials. But then your argument relies on his attempts being implicit rather than explicit, that he was hoping to provoke a response by simply showing the clock off. This is however undermined by him repeatedly insisting that it was not a bomb to his teachers and law enforcement officials. Suggesting that this was all part of an elaborate scheme to provoke that response anyway is speculative. You can't actually know what he was thinking by continuing to have the clock out on display. If he was just showing it off without explaining what it was you might be able to make that argument, but he repeatedly stated it was just a clock. There is no way to prove his intent was to willfully provoke a reaction from law enforcement, and his actual behavior consisted of numerous attempts to assuage fears on the part of school officials and later law enforcement. There were no reasonable grounds to press charges, something the police officers realized as this never actually went to court.

As for the lawsuit itself, yes I think the sum is outrageously exorbitant. I don't think it's completely unreasonable to sue for damages in the wake of a bungled police response, but certainly not for that amount.




He was also insistent on not putting it away when asked, it apparently went off in multiple classes (which it could only have been programmed to do, meaning it was intentional to making suspicious noises and draw attention to it), and he refused to do anything more than state "It's a clock" to the police and school authorities, and not answer any questions regarding the previously mentioned facts.



We can then look at his father, who has a rather shady history, and now with these new facts of the $15 million dollar lawsuit make a reasonable guess as to the motives behind the affair.


it's a clock, clocks beep dude. it's like someone setting an alarm on their phones and it going off, just significantly less common since not everyone makes one from scratch. And again stating it's a clock sort of defeats the purpose of staging a hoax. I mean at the very least this would have to be a very halfhearted attempt given his constantly undermining his own bomb hoax by repeatedly saying his bomb wasn't a bomb. There isn't any legal basis here, if there was he would've been prosecuted. As it happens no legal charges were filed because they didn't have a case.

As for the rest, uh yeah sure. Sorry but that's fishwives' gossip levels of speculation. If I'm going to be cynical about this I'm going to assume this is them capitalizing on the situation rather than it all being part of a carefully orchestrated ruse. That frankly makes far more sense.




Clocks beep when you program them to go off, and one has to reprogram it to go off again.


Which means the child knowingly programmed it to go off in class, and after he was told to put away reprogrammed it to go off again in subsequent classes.



Stating it is a clock does not defeat the purpose of staging a hoax, rather it is the opposite: the entire premise was that the was "unjustly victimized", he is not going to admit it was intentional.


And again, political and economic pressure, as they tend to in these cases, are the reason he was not prosecuted.

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Posted 11/23/15 , edited 11/23/15

kamahl01 wrote:

As much as I thought the school system was bigoted....15 million? Thats tax payer money, don't think he deserves it for that. He deserves an apology, not the right to become a millionaire.


Fucking this.
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24 / M / USA
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Posted 11/23/15
America.
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Posted 11/23/15

PrinceJudar wrote:

America.

loves lawsuits.
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