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Post Reply Anime News Network Censors Criticism Of Social Justice Warriors Attacking Anime, Gaming, And Otaku Culture
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Posted 11/28/15
It's a strawman argument, plain and simple.
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Posted 11/28/15 , edited 12/1/15

PeripheralVisionary wrote:

Even I'm tired of the term SJWs. All it seems to do is create contempt for a near imaginary source to blame all our woes on, and to anyone we disagree with. Such is the fate of terminology and denigrations. A one all stop all shut down to what may very well be decent criticism.




I'm tired of them believing they can force individuals and society to be rearranged due to their political ideology.


I'm tired of finding myself still fighting against censorship in anime despite it being 2015, not the 1990s anymore.



lorreen wrote:


PeripheralVisionary wrote:

Even I'm tired of the term SJWs. All it seems to do is create contempt for a near imaginary source to blame all our woes on, and to anyone we disagree with. Such is the fate of terminology and denigrations. A one all stop all shut down to what may very well be decent criticism.


Dear PV,

I love you more each day.

I bristle every time I read "SJW."



So do I, because my first thought is, "Whose career or hobby are they trying to destroy now?"




PrinceJudar wrote:


PeripheralVisionary wrote:

Even I'm tired of the term SJWs. All it seems to do is create contempt for a near imaginary source to blame all our woes on, and to anyone we disagree with. Such is the fate of terminology and denigrations. A one all stop all shut down to what may very well be decent criticism.


It gets thrown around way too often and spaz like. Reminds me of crocker from Fairly Odd Parents sometimes.





I don't think it does.


When 40%, when nearly HALF of Millennials are for censoring free speech because it is "offensive", when over one-third of the Democratic party agrees with them, then we aren't talking about a few bad apples or people just saying anyone is an SJW for disagreeing with them, we are talking about a fundamental shift in attitudes towards basic liberties.


http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/11/20/40-of-millennials-ok-with-limiting-speech-offensive-to-minorities/



pandrasb wrote:

SJWs are like Marxist right?




Pretty much, specifically they are what is referred to as "Cultural Marxists," which describes their distinct ways of implementing their ideology.

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Posted 11/28/15

pandrasb wrote:

SJWs are like Marxist right?


I think they're better described as Maoists/Red Guards or Jacobins. They only want to destroy and purge.

For example, the radical gender theory elements are not going to be satisfied until humans have no gender identity and reproduce only through cloning.

I'm pretty sure Harrison Bergeron is something pretty close to what they consider the ideal world.
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Posted 11/28/15 , edited 11/28/15
I don't dislike the term, although I like to use it in an almost-joking way. Because that's how it is. This fairly recent shift in ideologies is so ridiculous and foreign to me that I can't help but think of it as a joke. It's the only way I can come to accept that people...living, breathing, thinking, educated human beings, are actually like that. It's unbelievable.

I don't think SJWs realize they are SJWs. They just seem to perceive certain threats to be greater than they actually are and/or don't consider enough factors when taking a certain side. They tend to be easy to offend, willing to take drastic measures to prevent this, and turn everything into a social justice issue. It's not that they mean to do something bad, it is that they don't realize they are doing something bad.

Pretty much anyone who is trapped in the bubble of their comfort zone is vulnerable to this sort of ideology. And, nowadays, it's not all that surprising since people in first world countries tend to not really suffer and experience enough to realize what really matters.

Without experiencing ugliness and beauty, one can't appreciate beauty. Sort of like that, I think. Most of the issues in the world are grey. And one needs to be willing to take a few steps back sometimes to see the big picture. I'd like to think that I'm a person capable of that and I've never thought of myself as being particularly intelligent. And then I encounter people I try to have a serious conversation with and I discover they are incapable of taking those steps back to reassess the situation. It's alarming, really. They advocate huge or burdensome changes without thinking about repercussions. They only have views based on their emotions. Emotional decision making tends to be bad decision making.

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Posted 11/28/15 , edited 11/28/15

maxgale wrote:
I don't think it does.


When 40%, when nearly HALF of Millennials are for censoring free speech because it is "offensive", when over one-third of the Democratic party agrees with them, then we aren't talking about a few bad apples or people just saying anyone is an SJW for disagreeing with them, we are talking about a fundamental shift in attitudes towards basic liberties.


http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/11/20/40-of-millennials-ok-with-limiting-speech-offensive-to-minorities/



It does sometimes. Even I've been called an SJW.

It's a silly term when thrown around too often. Labels are often used by people as an easy means of ending discussion rather than having reasoning to support their opposition--thrown arbitrarily as a coward's way out.

It's fine to use on occasion, I've sure I've used the term sometimes. However, by no means is it a good argument on its own. Labels aren't the only manner to oppose lunacy. If anything, we're better off without. Knocking someone down on their ass with logical reasoning is a hella lot better than using a flimsy label.

I have little problem with the label itself, and censoring is pointless as people would just find another means of defining it.

Social Justice is a big problem for our generation, but people freaking out and getting trigger happy with labels while simultaneously being unable to make an argument of their own, are they really helping or just a burden?

Anyone that can argue doesn't need labels to kick somebody's ass out of the ring, so they're less disturbed by such a concept. If anything, it serve to better people's arguments without having to rely on the label doing the arguing for them.

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Posted 11/28/15

maxgale wrote:

Pretty much, specifically they are what is referred to as "Cultural Marxists," which describes their distinct ways of implementing their ideology.



I didn't realize the ghost of Joseph McCarthy would be here to discuss this issue with us. What a pleasant surprise.
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Posted 11/28/15

Morbidhanson wrote:

I don't dislike the term, although I like to use it in an almost-joking way. Because that's how it is. This fairly recent shift in ideologies is so ridiculous and foreign to me that I can't help but think of it as a joke. It's the only way I can come to accept that people...living, breathing, thinking, educated human beings, are actually like that. It's unbelievable.




I think we're all pretty much at that point. Taking it seriously is near impossible sometimes. I don't bother when crazy kicks its own ass for me. No point.



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21 / M / U.S.A.
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Posted 11/28/15 , edited 12/1/15
Then don't respond? Or threaten to leave the conversation? If you've already kicked someone's ass in the argument to the point that they can only respond with some petty name-calling, then at that point you've already won, and they've done nothing more than proved their own ignorance. There's nothing to prove on the internet by always having the last word.

SJW isn't even a term that should be used as an insult; it's something I use to describe someone who I don't agree with that I'm not even going to attempt arguing with because of how they carry on "debating". It's a term I use for people who get insulted by anything and everything and demand that the world converges and morphs in on itself to satisfy their little demands. And someone who's opinion is literally leagues above others. (Not to be confused with the special snowflakes of the internet; all SJW's are special snowflakes, but not all special snowflakes are SJW's)


Anyone that can argue doesn't need labels to kick somebody's ass out of the ring, so their less disturbed by such a concept. If anything, it serve to better people's arguments without having to rely on the label doing the arguing for them.

Exactly.
Le_Dom 
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Posted 11/28/15 , edited 11/28/15
I wouldn't have a problem with the term SJW if it still exclusively refered to that self-righteous, zealous mob that hurts people.

Now, all it takes for one to be labeled as such is to tell someone ''X is a pretty shitty word to use'' or ''this is sexist''. I can count on one hand the number of times someone didn't throw it as a flame bait.


And to anyone who cries about censoring ''free speech''; get your head out of your ass. Free speech means that the government can't arrest you for expressing yourself. It doesn't mean everyone around you has the obligation to listen and are forbidden from telling you to shut up. You had the ''right'' to say whatever you wanted, people found you obnoxious and didn't want to hear it.

I'd love to see them to try using that reasoning in real life situations. You know, pull someone's headphones out in your bus or knock at someone's door to tell them about the danger of social justice. Then complain about how they silenced your opinion for kicking you out and see how ridiculous you sound.

Or better yet, go to third world countries and tell political prisonners who spoke out against their government's corruption that you're on the same level as them because a forum deleted your post or someone blocked your twitter account.

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Posted 11/28/15 , edited 12/1/15
Banning the term does nothing, everyone knows who the group of individuals in question are. The people likely to bitch and moan loudest regarding the most inanely stupid shit that they likely wouldn't buy or partake in anyway.

People made fun of the religious right for throwing a tantrum over Starbucks. Why should it be a surprise when the cult progressive left gets their nose shoved in the rug too?

As a staunch liberal I lean on the left, but progressives are the Democrat's tea party and should be put out to pasture.

The reality is DOAX and X2 sold better in western markets. SJW's, leftist authoritarian chuckle[explicit], or whatever you want to call them - have created a hostile environment to intimidate developers preventing them from releasing games they themselves wouldn't buy. That shit simply isn't acceptable.

They applaud censorship and any means in doing so. Whether it's infect localization teams for videogames/anime, getting things pulled from shelves, or intimidation. It doesn't actually help anyone but they will still martyr themselves for the cause.
Posted 11/28/15 , edited 11/28/15

maxgale wrote:


PeripheralVisionary wrote:

Even I'm tired of the term SJWs. All it seems to do is create contempt for a near imaginary source to blame all our woes on, and to anyone we disagree with. Such is the fate of terminology and denigrations. A one all stop all shut down to what may very well be decent criticism.




I'm tired of them believing they can force individuals and society to be rearranged due to their political ideology.



I thought that was the point of political ideology.

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Posted 11/28/15 , edited 12/1/15

PapaGregory wrote:

Where was the OP where right wringers got pissed at Starbucks for having their cups red or a town in New Mexico having a Nativity scene in a New Mexico town on public property


The holiday in question has distinct meaning. Those protesting the product were doing so by saying that the meaning for the holiday was being ignored, or subverted.


Having a religious expression of the Christian faith on the public square is in keeping with the traditions and precedent within the country.



In both the examples you gave, what those protesting (the product) or affirming (the Nativity) both have in common is a claim as to the nature of a thing being intrinsically altered and saying, No, I disagree with that thing being altered, this is the proper nature of and expression of this thing.


What Social Justice Warriors are doing is the opposite. They take a thing (anime, gaming, etc.) and say, "I recognize the nature of this thing, how this thing is expressed, but I dislike it so I am going to make sure it is altered."







reinux wrote:


PeripheralVisionary wrote:

Even I'm tired of the term SJWs. All it seems to do is create contempt for a near imaginary source to blame all our woes on, and to anyone we disagree with. Such is the fate of terminology and denigrations. A one all stop all shut down to what may very well be decent criticism.


Agree, it's identity politics at its worst.

SJW is just such a uselessly broad word.

Also, wtf @ people trying to red bait with SJW.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red-baiting




It isn't uselessly broad.


Rather, the number of Millennials and those on the Left who are described by it is rather large, as I explained in a previous post citing Pew research data.


And it isn't "red baiting" when those in question are literally calling for social revolution, redistribution of wealth, iconoclasm, etc., literally endorsing and expressing socialist and / or communist rhetoric.




iriomote wrote:


lorreen wrote:


PeripheralVisionary wrote:

Even I'm tired of the term SJWs. All it seems to do is create contempt for a near imaginary source to blame all our woes on, and to anyone we disagree with. Such is the fate of terminology and denigrations. A one all stop all shut down to what may very well be decent criticism.


Dear PV,

I love you more each day.

I bristle every time I read "SJW."

Bristle? But.. you have no hair...

I agree that I'm tired of hearing rants about SJWs, but I'm also tired of hearing rants from SJWs. Can't we all just agree to be imperfect, prejudiced, bigoted people and get along with one another anyway? I'm sure everyone on CR has some kind of common gound... like... collecting stamps or something.



When the people in question explicitly are stating that views or things they disagree with cannot exist, and people they disagree with should not be allowed basic rights and employment, then no, false moral equivocation should not be viewed as a legitimate position when there is not truth to it.





kilikikero wrote:

SJW is just another condescending pejorative. It's like if someone broadly called fans of loli-fanservice "pedophiles", it's a way to box people into a negative group that doesn't have any real world organizational identity so you can belittle a concept instead of discuss ideas. I can see why ANN filters out what basically amounts to name-calling, if you're the sort of person who pulls out the word "SJW" in a conversation, it's basically a guarantee that all you're looking for is a fight, not discuss.




It's a condescending pejorative because they have made it so due to their own actions.


The same way "ancient alien theorists" is a pejorative, because by definition and by action what they believe and say is absurd.


ANN is not filtering out "name calling", it is preventing people from calling a spade a spade because they want to turn their site into a safe space.


Which is certainly their right, just as we have the right to discuss as the fandom our thoughts on it, and no longer use that site if we are so inclined.


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Posted 11/28/15

Le_Dom wrote:

And to anyone who cries about censoring ''free speech''; get your head out of your ass. Free speech means that the government can't arrest you for expressing yourself. It doesn't mean everyone around you has the obligation to listen and are forbidden from telling you to shut up. You had the ''right'' to say whatever you wanted, people found you obnoxious and didn't want to hear it.



You're trying to conflate arguments in a disingenuous fashion.

free speech != the right to free speech - one is a concept and the other is a right defined in the constitution.

The right to free speech does not mean free speech shouldn't be considered outside the boundaries of the legal system. It means that society as a whole should value the ability to express even the worst of opinions and either pursue conversation or walk away. Trying to intimidate people to where they can't say their thoughts can be done without government oversight. This is often done via poisoning the well, shoddy character assassination, or outright bans (chilling effect).

The assumption you're making is that only bad ideas get ridiculed or removed. See Gatchaman Insights for how this doesn't always work. How do you handle disagreement? Do you actually converse, or ostracize and "other" the individual to make an example out of them?

Oh, and here's a fixed XKCD for you:



The message is quite simple. If you have to ban people that disagree with you on a forum while acting civilly then you're pro-censorship trying to shut down dissent.
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Posted 11/28/15

maxgale wrote:

ANN is not filtering out "name calling", it is preventing people from calling a spade a spade because they want to turn their site into a safe space.

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Posted 11/28/15 , edited 12/1/15
I feel like SJW's should have more important tasks to do than fuck with anime and video games. Go solve some REAL Social problems that actually need solving.
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