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Post Reply Something for Non-American Subscribers
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Posted 1/1/16
Kinda feels like you need to take some extra measures.
The Wise Wizard
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Posted 1/1/16

TiggsPanther wrote:

Bargain Harder. Get more regions or tell the licensors "thanks, but no thanks". Surely it's better to piss off subscribers worldwide than make two countries had and give the finger to the rest of the planet.

Do you honestly think that would work? CR is dealing with what is essentially a monopoly supplier (it is infrequent that an anime is available from more than one licensing source), and it isn't as if there aren't other outlets in the US and Canada that would likely be happy to license it if CR passed on it.

In the end, this is effectively "reduce the US/Canada simulcasts to a number closer to what we get", because that would be the end result, not increasing the number of simulcasts for other countries. To pull the latter off, CR would need to be a much bigger share of publisher's income, and to be their only practical streaming outlet.

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Posted 1/1/16

TheAncientOne wrote:

In the end, this is effectively "reduce the US/Canada simulcasts to a number closer to what we get", because that would be the end result, not increasing the number of simulcasts for other countries. To pull the latter off, CR would need to be a much bigger share of publisher's income, and to be their only practical streaming outlet.



*shrugs*

Remember, from the non-American point of view, as long as it meant overall closer parity it doesn't matter whether its "more here" or "less there".

To be honest, I'm not entirely serious about that one but it's not exactly tongue-in-cheek, either.

It all comes down to whether or not Crunchyroll really want to come over as a genuinely international service or if they don't mind being seen as an American service that allows international users to pay full price to piggyback off a small selection of their catalogue.
Currently, the latter is how they come across. They also come across as really not giving a damn that that's how they come over.

If they do ever want to improve their overseas standing, they have to reduce how America-centric they appear. And, like it or not, taking shows with NA-only distribution instead of passing them over doesn't always do them any favours. Taking a risk by insisting on more regions or letting a show pass by might, in some seasons, be the only way to not wreck their international reputation. If they care about it at all.

Seriously, if they'd actually let several of this season's pickups pass by, they'd maybe not have quite so many international subscribers considering dropping their premium status. Maybe that's a drop in the bucket compared to whatever they've gained in US/Canada but will it always be that way?
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Posted 1/1/16

TiggsPanther wrote:


TheAncientOne wrote:

In the end, this is effectively "reduce the US/Canada simulcasts to a number closer to what we get", because that would be the end result, not increasing the number of simulcasts for other countries. To pull the latter off, CR would need to be a much bigger share of publisher's income, and to be their only practical streaming outlet.



*shrugs*

Remember, from the non-American point of view, as long as it meant overall closer parity it doesn't matter whether its "more here" or "less there".

To be honest, I'm not entirely serious about that one but it's not exactly tongue-in-cheek, either.

It all comes down to whether or not Crunchyroll really want to come over as a genuinely international service or if they don't mind being seen as an American service that allows international users to pay full price to piggyback off a small selection of their catalogue.
Currently, the latter is how they come across. They also come across as really not giving a damn that that's how they come over.

If they do ever want to improve their overseas standing, they have to reduce how America-centric they appear. And, like it or not, taking shows with NA-only distribution instead of passing them over doesn't always do them any favours. Taking a risk by insisting on more regions or letting a show pass by might, in some seasons, be the only way to not wreck their international reputation. If they care about it at all.

Seriously, if they'd actually let several of this season's pickups pass by, they'd maybe not have quite so many international subscribers considering dropping their premium status. Maybe that's a drop in the bucket compared to whatever they've gained in US/Canada but will it always be that way?


They have picked up a number of shows in the past that came with no North American streaming rights. So it's not as if they are solely focused on NA, otherwise why bother? If they could have gotten a show like Attack on Titan, but the Japanese licensors said that they were only willing to grant rights for the United States, I don't think CR would have passed on it, and I wouldn't expect them to. I would expect them to push for other countries, and a different cost than what they would have for a show with full international rights.
The Wise Wizard
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Posted 1/1/16

TiggsPanther wrote:

*shrugs*

Remember, from the non-American point of view, as long as it meant overall closer parity it doesn't matter whether its "more here" or "less there".

To be honest, I'm not entirely serious about that one but it's not exactly tongue-in-cheek, either.

It all comes down to whether or not Crunchyroll really want to come over as a genuinely international service or if they don't mind being seen as an American service that allows international users to pay full price to piggyback off a small selection of their catalogue.
Currently, the latter is how they come across. They also come across as really not giving a damn that that's how they come over.

If they do ever want to improve their overseas standing, they have to reduce how America-centric they appear. And, like it or not, taking shows with NA-only distribution instead of passing them over doesn't always do them any favours. Taking a risk by insisting on more regions or letting a show pass by might, in some seasons, be the only way to not wreck their international reputation. If they care about it at all.

Seriously, if they'd actually let several of this season's pickups pass by, they'd maybe not have quite so many international subscribers considering dropping their premium status. Maybe that's a drop in the bucket compared to whatever they've gained in US/Canada but will it always be that way?

It appears you are basically arguing that CR should make international users feel better even if it were to the detriment of a sizable portion of their user base, and very likely the substantial majority of their subscriber base (US/Canada). It also doesn't improve the actual standing of those international users, and is quite the long shot at this point that it would do so in the near future.

In the end, this "makes international users feel more on par" solution just results in a weaker CR.

Also, to what extent should CR carry out this plan? Refuse all titles that aren't worldwide outside of Japan? If so, even you would be getting fewer titles than you are now. Do you really think that would make the majority of CR users happier? If not, then you are really endorsing the same type of disparity you are criticizing.

Thankfully, it probably wouldn't affect US users too much (except for their choice of service), since most of those titles would just appear on another service(s) instead. (I would include Canada also, but they get shut out if that other service were Hulu).


Here is an alternate solution:

Crunchyroll effectively splits into two companies. One for the United States and Canada, another to serve international markets. For certain economic advantages, simulcast licensing is still handled by one entity, but otherwise the two are separate except for possibly certain sections of the forum. (Site News would definitely be separate, and probably Premium Users and Help!, as well). Each is also responsible for negotiating their own library title contracts (and sub-licensing any "overflow" if the other company is interested).

Of course, I expect it wouldn't be long before users in the UK were complaining they didn't get as much as South America, parts of Europe complaining they don't get as much as either.


Another solution:

Crunchyroll discontinues premium memberships outside the US and Canada. International users can no longer complain about "paying the same (or more) and getting less", since they aren't paying a dime. This has a number of problems, including whether it could actually be profitable. (I suspect Daisuki, for example, still isn't turning a profit). I've seen some international subscribers claim they are "subsidizing the US". It is far more likely they are subsidizing free viewers outside the US (possibly in their own country, but certainly some others) due to the issue of getting sufficient advertising in certain markets to cover show costs.

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Posted 1/1/16

shinryou wrote:


Destrado_AFB wrote:

Still no reply on why american fans receive big sales while the rest of us just get same old same old? That part has no excuses such as licensing being out of your hands and just reveals there is actually a difference between what you will offer us and them.

When will you guys even try and be fair to your foreign audiences?


I'm not familiar with how the discount codes are set up for the store, so I cannot give you a qualified reply on this one.


TiggsPanther wrote:
Deals and Competitions geared towards the rest of the world. As I said at the start if this thread, work with local distributors to have regional competitions and deals, if you can't swing worldwide.


The local teams in the locales other than English do their own competitions and deals.


Any way you can pass the message on to someone who has say on the discounts then? I don't mean it in a rude way because I understand you're trying to help then (although having addressed it sooner would have been nice) but if it's not something you can pass on either then it does sound like we still have an issue that is dividing and giving preference to certain parts of the community and not to others. That is a big issue in my mind and it sounds like even raising it here on the forums is no guarantee it'll ever get noticed. Is it something that can be passed on or is it one of those subjects we have no chance of seeing improvement and fair treatment?
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Posted 1/1/16

eyeofpain wrote:


They have picked up a number of shows in the past that came with no North American streaming rights. So it's not as if they are solely focused on NA, otherwise why bother? If they could have gotten a show like Attack on Titan, but the Japanese licensors said that they were only willing to grant rights for the United States, I don't think CR would have passed on it, and I wouldn't expect them to. I would expect them to push for other countries, and a different cost than what they would have for a show with full international rights.


Look at the volume of NA-only announcements compared to the volume of NA-excluded announcements, the scales are tipped very very heavily one way. Look at how many UK/Ireland/Scandinavia exclusives there are (to my knowledge it's a big fat 0) or the amount of French exclusives there are (more than 0, but still not that many) compared to the amount US/Canada exclusives. Also, look at the types of series, it's a number of fricking huge series, like One Piece or Naruto, backed up by a number of solid less well known cult shows. If it were one or two series nobody had ever heard of before, I doubt people would care, but it isn't at one point they were announcing two or three cult shows a week for US and Canada.

And Crunchyroll's brand managers certainly didn't help themselves with their "Library Expansion Project", that actually completely failed to expand the library in 83.7% of the world.

Also, the way Crunchyroll promotes these titles, by sending out mass emails to subscribers in countries where the titles aren't available, by showing them on the homepage in countries where they aren't available, by using banners in countries where they aren't available doesn't exactly ingratiate themselves to us. It's so disrespectful, rude, lazy and inconsiderate to do that to your subscribers and I'd argue that the inclusion of unavailable titles on the home page is outright fraud...
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Posted 1/1/16

Buzz201 wrote:

Also, the way Crunchyroll promotes these titles, by sending out mass emails to subscribers in countries where the titles aren't available, by showing them on the homepage in countries where they aren't available, by using banners in countries where they aren't available doesn't exactly ingratiate themselves to us. It's so disrespectful, rude, lazy and inconsiderate to do that to your subscribers and I'd argue that the inclusion of unavailable titles on the home page is outright fraud...


Are those banners active on, say, http://crunchyroll.co.uk, or do most people just visit crunchyroll.com? If the former, than I'd agree, that's lazy programming. Also, as shinryou noted earlier, there are logistical difficulties in tailoring email communications.
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Posted 1/1/16
Crunchyroll is by americans for americans and european money, but not europeans.
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sad how greedy licensors are want you to buy licenses for every country :¨( crunchyroll staff are trying their best it's just that the greedynes in our world is taking over leaving little too share :/ lol and then they wonder why people pirate torrents/ and stream on illegal sites
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eyeofpain wrote:

Are those banners active on, say, http://crunchyroll.co.uk, or do most people just visit crunchyroll.com? If the former, than I'd agree, that's lazy programming. Also, as shinryou noted earlier, there are logistical difficulties in tailoring email communications.


Crunchyroll.co.uk redirects you to Crunchyroll.com and then charges you in GBP, so yes they were present on "crunchyroll.co.uk"

And I don't buy that logistical difficulties line. It's simple, ask people when they register what location they're in. If they give the wrong location it's their own fault when they receive the wrong emails. Also, Crunchyroll charges UK customers in GBP and Eurozone customers in EUR, it should have been too difficult to create a separate list of those subscribers and then just not email them.

I notice you ignore the part where Crunchyroll commits at best false advertising and at worst fraud towards international customers. It wouldn't have bothered me so much if I'd gotten an apology off Crunchyroll staff, but with the exception of Shinryou most of them seem to burying their heads in the sand, and the ones that aren't just make small changes without saying anything. (One or two have started putting region limits in the title of their posts, and many are now putting region limits further up the page.)

I think part of the reason the complaining is now so vocal and frequent and repetitive (and let's be honest, if you're North American it's probably insanely annoying) is because Crunchyroll hasn't said anything, which just makes it even easier to believe that they couldn't give a crap about international customers. They won't even give us a "sorry, we're can't get the rights to every title in every region, but we're working on it", that's how little they care...
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Posted 1/2/16

eyeofpain wrote:

Are those banners active on, say, http://crunchyroll.co.uk, or do most people just visit crunchyroll.com? If the former, than I'd agree, that's lazy programming. Also, as shinryou noted earlier, there are logistical difficulties in tailoring email communications.


The regional sites did used to somewhat tailor things to their respective region. Things unavailable wouldn't show up even if y viewed the site from America, for example.

However, these days they don't even exist. The .co.uk and .de sites, at least, simple force-redirect to .com and have done for a long time now.

So, yes, it is lazy programming. Everything goes through he look site but it only filters it at a show page level. You will see a banner saying "You have to watch this show" that will link to a page with an empty listing and "No Episodes for you, filthy Brit" (paraphrasing, obviously) in the sidebar.

True, "missing" titles are filtered out from the Browse Shows section but everywhere else you get big, bold statements encouraging you to watch somethings and you don't know whether it's available or not until you read further down the post or visit the show's page.
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Posted 1/2/16

TiggsPanther wrote:

The regional sites did used to somewhat tailor things to their respective region. Things unavailable wouldn't show up even if y viewed the site from America, for example.

However, these days they don't even exist. The .co.uk and .de sites, at least, simple force-redirect to .com and have done for a long time now.

So, yes, it is lazy programming. Everything goes through he look site but it only filters it at a show page level. You will see a banner saying "You have to watch this show" that will link to a page with an empty listing and "No Episodes for you, filthy Brit" (paraphrasing, obviously) in the sidebar.

True, "missing" titles are filtered out from the Browse Shows section but everywhere else you get big, bold statements encouraging you to watch somethings and you don't know whether it's available or not until you read further down the post or visit the show's page.


It also fails to filter "missing" titles from the homepage scroller, or at least did on several occasions with One Piece. Which seems very misleading, as people are likely to subscribe from the homepage seeing One Piece listed as available.
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Posted 1/2/16

Buzz201 wrote:I think part of the reason the complaining is now so vocal and frequent and repetitive (and let's be honest, if you're North American it's probably insanely annoying) is because Crunchyroll hasn't said anything, which just makes it even easier to believe that they couldn't give a crap about international customers. They won't even give us a "sorry, we're can't get the rights to every title in every region, but we're working on it", that's how little they care...


Welcome to Crunchyroll's new style of management.

Same thing happens to North Americans on a number of issues. The large majority of the time their response is dead silence, but occasionally we get a "We're sorry, we'll work on it" (followed by dead silence) or a "Yeah, whatever, we already knew" (followed by dead silence).

By and large, US corporate mentality has become "$1 profit today is great even if it means losing (or not making) $10 tomorrow." Why bother with answering (let alone addressing) embarrassing questions? The only thing that's important is attracting new subscribers ("growth"), not making things right for the old subscribers who you can screw until they get fed up and quietly leave.

("Yeah! Never mind that the reason we grew in the first place was because the anime community is close-knit, so word of mouth quickly spread about how good we were before the buyout. We can just coast on that momentum forever, and none of the old subscribers will tell the community that we don't give a $#!% anymore.")
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Posted 1/2/16

arimareiji wrote:
By and large, US corporate mentality has become "$1 profit today is great even if it means losing (or not making) $10 tomorrow." Why bother with answering (let alone addressing) embarrassing questions? The only thing that's important is attracting new subscribers ("growth"), not making things right for the old subscribers who you can screw until they get fed up and quietly leave.


The problem with that viewpoint, which I think many companies are at risk of hitting eventually, is that it's only sustainable up to a point.

Growth is making sure that you are gaining more customers than you lose and, as such, being attractive to new customers is see as being the be-all and end-all.
Of course, there's only ever so many available customers. Sooner or later you will reach the limit of (interested) people who you've not attracted before and even your non-customers will be largely made up of your former customers. And at that point the only way to grow is to entice those former customers back.This requires being able to show a clear improvement over whatever caused them to leave in the first place.

Also, if you're primarily focusing on one region (however much this is justified) then you can't forget that your current lower priority regions are still going to be a likely source of future growth.
Once a company has a bad reputation in one country, it can take a hell of a lot of effort to even start to turn it around. This is especially true within the anime fandom, I have noticed.

Looking at the UK, Manga Entertainment took a long time to recover from dropping Blu-rays mid-series and going DVD-only for a while and they still have quality control issues.
MVM still tend to treat Blu-ray as a nice optional extra and would probably take a good year or two to get rid of he "don't trust them for BD releases" stigma.
Animax's UK arm is still seen as being both inferior to Crunchyroll and part of the reason why CR doesn't have UK rights to certain titles.
Viewster were gaining a very good UK reputation, right up until the shift to OMAKASE and gaining a US market, at which point they UK rep took a bit of a hit.

The community remembers these things and it can take a hell of a lot of time and effort to win them back once lost. Good will takes a lot of time to gain and very little time to lose. And it's not just about whether or not those customers will trust you again, it's whether they recommend them to their friends or fellow community members.

And here's where companies being too short-sighted can come around to bite them in the ass.
The UK (or anywhere outside of North America) may not be Crunchyroll's priority right now but the UK is pretty much ripe for the picking right now. We don't have any service that really succeeds in appearing to give a crap about us so the first one that does will pretty much win the region.

If CR (or any anime streaming service, really) wants to really succeed in the UK at any point in the future then now is most definitely the time to be going out of their way to attract the UK audience and not piss it off.

Animax have never really managed to make the UK fandom feel valued. Crunchyroll and Viewster both made fairly good starts then moved their focus elsewhere and have a kind of "This is the best we can do, be happy you're getting anything at all" sort of attitude.
So whether it's one of these three or someone else entirely, whoever managed to pick up UK streaming and really run with it and make us feel like we're valued and worthy of getting a decent selection of shows is going to be the UK's Number One service.

We're an audience waiting to be harvested. But the window of opportunity won't be open forever. If CR don't take a chance on us now, we won't be as likely to take a chance on them later.
And when international growth finally becomes a priority, the UK may have too much bad blood about CR to be won over quickly. Same for other regions.
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