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Post Reply California Shooting
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Posted 12/2/15

Totalis wrote:

the worst part is that once again we're going to have a short debate about gun control, and the same dumbasses are going to defend guns and their right to carry, even though the U.S. is #1 in gun related deaths in the entire world.

At this point something far more drastic than a single isolated shootout where 10-20 people are wounded/killed needs to happen if we want to see any real added gun control because people are too fucking stupid to make it harder for people to get guns.


The irony in this comment is that it was the side that wants to ban guns that brought up this debate...
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24 / M / florida
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Posted 12/2/15 , edited 12/2/15

PeripheralVisionary wrote:
You can ban productions. The fact is that if you get a gun ban, a large majority would be kept out. It's a given that there's at least ONE gun in any given state, so why tell me a gun ban wouldn't work? If it keeps a lot out then yes, it does work. Saying it doesn't work when guns are virtually nonexistent in Japan is bullshit.


Well, i think you misunderstood me, it would work on the law abiding citizens, however it would not work on criminals, or terror organizations. The people that we want to be left without guns would be the only ones left with guns.

also japan is different, they never had a abundance of guns, so it was much easier to regulate, and japan does not have a workforce behind the production/distribution/repair of firearms.
Posted 12/2/15 , edited 12/2/15

lukedollo wrote:


PeripheralVisionary wrote:
You can ban productions. The fact is that if you get a gun ban, a large majority would be kept out. It's a given that there's at least ONE gun in any given state, so why tell me a gun ban wouldn't work? If it keeps a lot out then yes, it does work. Saying it doesn't work when guns are virtually nonexistent in Japan is bullshit.


Well, i think you misunderstood me, it would work on the law abiding citizens, however it would not work on criminals, or terror organizations. The people that we want to be left without guns would be the only ones left with guns.


Most guns are stolen, and black market guns are quite high in price. That's why you don't see a lot of criminals with ak-47s. Because those are illegal to manufacture and to own for the law abiding citizens. That's why its difficult for anyone in Japan to own a gun. Though terror organizations have a bit more capital to work with, so I assume they would have a bit more flexibility. Especially considering they have entire countries under their control to manufacture weapons a normal person can't have.

I see what you edited, and I've already said that. Japan never had much in the way of guns, so that's why it worked so successfully, and to an extent this worked with the Assault Rifle Ban.


Don't worry, I argued out of my ass this time. I just wanted to see you dig stuff up. You know, get the blood going. Helps me too.
Posted 12/2/15
People need to lay off with the excuse of mental issues.

You guys make it difficult enough for people with mental issues as is by stigmatizing them in such a negative light that anyone who is labeled with any mental issues at all is a bad person.
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Posted 12/2/15
Isn't California one of the strictest states on gun control...?



I'm not surprised it turned into a gun control debate but eh,
Posted 12/2/15 , edited 12/2/15

PrinceJudar wrote:

Isn't California one of the strictest states on gun control...?



I'm not surprised it turned into a gun control debate but eh,


Out of the states, but I've seen worst in other nations. Not that I'd advocate either way.
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Posted 12/2/15
because we're trying to PREVENT things like this from happening in the future. it's not about advancing a political agenda, it's about making it harder to obtain guns. The best way to get your argument through to people is in the wake of tragedy.

And I really don't see any irony in that at all. Probably because there is none.
mel823 
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Posted 12/2/15

Tirnoth wrote:

People need to lay off with the excuse of mental issues.

You guys make it difficult enough for people with mental issues as is by stigmatizing them in such a negative light that anyone who is labeled with any mental issues at all is a bad person.


Unfortunately, it's an easy cop out. Just say the person is mentally ill, dismiss the issue, and go back to sticking your head in the sand.
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24 / M / florida
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Posted 12/2/15 , edited 12/2/15

PeripheralVisionary wrote:
Most guns are stolen, and black market guns are quite high in price. That's why you don't see a lot of criminals with ak-47s. Because those are illegal to manufacture and to own for the law abiding citizens. That's why its difficult for anyone in Japan to own a gun. Though terror organizations have a bit more capital to work with, so I assume they would have a bit more flexibility. Especially considering they have entire countries under their control to manufacture weapons a normal person can't have.

actually, I live in Florida, and i have run into times where i have been in situations where i could have bought guns from the "black market" (its not quite what you think it is) and it really wasn't that high of prices, because contrary to what most people understand it is not that most guns are stolen, its from what you call a straw purchase. basically a person buys the guns on behalf of the people doing the street selling then sells it to them at a slight up-charge, in return the person on the street sells it for another slight up-charge.

I understand that this does nothing for my argument, but i believe in honesty. the truth is most illegal guns do start out at a legal purchase but are then immediately handed off to be sold on the streets.
I will provide a link to some basic information on this
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/guns/procon/guns.html

and this im sure is a crappy link to provide, it kind of helps you understand just how cheap the black market really is

http://www.wbez.org/news/where-chicago-teenagers-get-their-guns-105737

I remember hearing from people in my area the people they went too only charged about 300 for most of there 9mm pistols.

and actually you do see a lot of criminals with ak-47s, at least where i live.

but the fact is that there is already such a high number of guns in circulation that if anything, a gun ban would have a horrible short term effect, at-least that's what i believe. I mean you really need to consider just how many guns they already have, plus, there are still way more guns that are not being used in a bad manner then guns that are in fact being used by criminals. so you would ban all guns from civilians and then leave a stockpile of hiding guns in the hands of robbers.
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Posted 12/2/15
Even if there where more gun control laws it wouldn't stop anyone from obtaining them in the southern states. Mexicos cartels will just have a bigger market...
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Posted 12/2/15
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40 / M / USA
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Posted 12/2/15 , edited 12/2/15

PrinceJudar wrote:

Isn't California one of the strictest states on gun control...?



I'm not surprised it turned into a gun control debate but eh,


Funny how those states with stricter gun laws and less guns have more problems with larger murders. Meanwhile in Alabama, we all walk around with a pistol and never have anything large scale. No one is going to fuck with us when we're all packing lol.

Obviously I'm exaggerating a little bit, but I do find it funny where this shit tends to happen. It's always particular types of states you end up noticing with this issue.
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22 / M / Arizona
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Posted 12/2/15
The majority of gun related deaths are either suicides (number 1) or its criminals killing each other. neither one of those do I have a problem with. Its a fact we need to fix the broken mental health system in the U.S. and its a fact that there needs to be a tightening of restrictions on ownership (think applying for a drivers license), but taking away guns because there are some people abuse the privilege isn't fair to the average citizen.
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24 / M / USA
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Posted 12/2/15 , edited 12/2/15

dotsforlife wrote:

Funny how those states with stricter gun laws and less guns have more problems with larger murders. Meanwhile in Alabama, we all walk around with a pistol and never have anything large scale. No one is going to fuck with us when we're all packing lol.

Obviously I'm exaggerating a little bit, but I do find it funny where this shit tends to happen. It's always particular types of states you end up noticing with this issue.


Well anyone with half a brain would go to a place where less resistance is expected, gun free zones, typically.

Just off the top of my head:

I do think guns contribute to a slightly higher homicide rate than other first word nations. There are a fuckton of arms in this country by this point though so good luck gettin' rid of 'em.

Another issue is Mexico. The cartels would gain even more influence on the market should guns suddenly become slightly harder to acquire, our borders aren't exactly as secure as other nations.

Then, well, there's bomb making. It's not as hard as people think it is.

We don't have guns to 'stop homicide' though. Not that it doesn't stop crime sometimes, it's actually fairly common in my area for a CPL to stop a criminal.

Though I do find it ironic that gun control is the topic while the state/local enforcement is under heavy scrutiny and while under threat of ISIS...


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44 / M / WA
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Posted 12/2/15
You'll notice they didn't try to attack an NRA convention?
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