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Would You Buy Xbox 360 if it didnt have all its great shooters??
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Posted 2/22/08

mangoku wrote:

For the last time....there is no real difference between the PS3 and 360's graphics...it all depends on the skill of the programmer....nobody learned how to "maximise" the 360's graphics, the graphics technology in general improved...when the 360 first came out, the graphics of that era did look like that...and Gears of War definitely does not look like shit....if you compare the stats of the 360's graphics processor and the PS3 there is no real difference, except it would seem that some PS3 games have framerate problems *ahem Orange Box *cough cough.....

Companies dont just give microsoft games because they are selling right now....Companies give microsoft games, because the 360 sells more games per console than the PS3 and Wii combined...dont believe me
http://www.xbox360fanboy.com/2008/01/28/360-attach-rate-now-7-games-per-console/

and the 360 is not only known for FPS and Ninja Gaiden....Ninja Gaiden is comparitively small compared to other franchises....Fable 2, Mass Effect, Eternal Sonata, Blue Dragon....all good rated RPG's that are for 360.....

and the PS3 (george foreman grill) is a waste of money....unless youre into the MGS4 and FFXIII, and White Knight kind of games....and when you say the PS3 is cheaper in the long run, youre wrong....because Blu-Ray is more expensive than DVD and the fact that the PS3 controller has only half the battery life of the 360... the only way you save is if you buy less than 2 games a year...and if you did buy less than 2 games a year, it would prove that the PS3 doesnt have good games...

and so the 360 is definitely worth more....but most of our childhoods took place playing the playstation1 and 2....thereby making alot of us Playstation Fans who dont research and believe anything sony says.....

and if you want to argue about the Red Ring of Death and the Fan Noise problem of the 360....realise that all new 360's produced come with the new Falcon chipset...designed to eliminate these problems


Although it's true that there are no significant difference in graphics now, who knows, maybe when programmers learns to maximize the PS3's capabilities, maybe the difference will start to show. Any system needs a couple of years before being able to have a game that utilize it's full potentials, so we'll wait and see.

And even though you can say that there are many more good games for the 360, to which I'll agree, but it's not what people know and buy the 360 for. What help sold the original Xbox? Halo of course. What sells the 360? Halo 3. People think of mostly FPS's when they think of the 360, never any of the RPG's you mentioned (which besides Mass Effect, isn't that big for gamers).

Basically like you said, if you're intro MGS4, FF13 and the likes then get the PS3. Isn't that the reason to buy any console? Anyone will always choose the console with the games that they want, and never any other reason. Cheaper or not, it all depends on the games.

Me, I prefer the PS3 only because of the games (yes you heard that right). The PS3 have most of the games I want, and the ones that it doesn't have, it's available on PC (Bioshock, Gears of War). And hey, free online doesn't hurt right? Doesn't mean I don't like the 360, it's just not my first choice.
Posted 2/22/08

sigma_draconis wrote:


mangoku wrote:

For the last time....there is no real difference between the PS3 and 360's graphics...it all depends on the skill of the programmer....nobody learned how to "maximise" the 360's graphics, the graphics technology in general improved...when the 360 first came out, the graphics of that era did look like that...and Gears of War definitely does not look like shit....if you compare the stats of the 360's graphics processor and the PS3 there is no real difference, except it would seem that some PS3 games have framerate problems *ahem Orange Box *cough cough.....

Companies dont just give microsoft games because they are selling right now....Companies give microsoft games, because the 360 sells more games per console than the PS3 and Wii combined...dont believe me
http://www.xbox360fanboy.com/2008/01/28/360-attach-rate-now-7-games-per-console/

and the 360 is not only known for FPS and Ninja Gaiden....Ninja Gaiden is comparitively small compared to other franchises....Fable 2, Mass Effect, Eternal Sonata, Blue Dragon....all good rated RPG's that are for 360.....

and the PS3 (george foreman grill) is a waste of money....unless youre into the MGS4 and FFXIII, and White Knight kind of games....and when you say the PS3 is cheaper in the long run, youre wrong....because Blu-Ray is more expensive than DVD and the fact that the PS3 controller has only half the battery life of the 360... the only way you save is if you buy less than 2 games a year...and if you did buy less than 2 games a year, it would prove that the PS3 doesnt have good games...

and so the 360 is definitely worth more....but most of our childhoods took place playing the playstation1 and 2....thereby making alot of us Playstation Fans who dont research and believe anything sony says.....

and if you want to argue about the Red Ring of Death and the Fan Noise problem of the 360....realise that all new 360's produced come with the new Falcon chipset...designed to eliminate these problems


Although it's true that there are no significant difference in graphics now, who knows, maybe when programmers learns to maximize the PS3's capabilities, maybe the difference will start to show. Any system needs a couple of years before being able to have a game that utilize it's full potentials, so we'll wait and see.

And even though you can say that there are many more good games for the 360, to which I'll agree, but it's not what people know and buy the 360 for. What help sold the original Xbox? Halo of course. What sells the 360? Halo 3. People think of mostly FPS's when they think of the 360, never any of the RPG's you mentioned (which besides Mass Effect, isn't that big for gamers).

Basically like you said, if you're intro MGS4, FF13 and the likes then get the PS3. Isn't that the reason to buy any console? Anyone will always choose the console with the games that they want, and never any other reason. Cheaper or not, it all depends on the games.

Me, I prefer the PS3 only because of the games (yes you heard that right). The PS3 have most of the games I want, and the ones that it doesn't have, it's available on PC (Bioshock, Gears of War). And hey, free online doesn't hurt right? Doesn't mean I don't like the 360, it's just not my first choice.


in the end its our separate opinions that matter....if the PS3 has the games you want, by all means get the 360...but the 360 has the games I want...and alot of added benefits that benefit me...and so i defend the 360.....and by the same note...if the PS3 takes a few years for its full potential to show...so does the 360...in a few years, there will be no red ring of death, better games etc... and i agree that FPS is the 360's main forte, but it isnt the ONLY reason to buy one....
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Posted 2/22/08
we bought a xbox360 without knowing the games for it and we buy random ones... but most of them are good so far, however some of it are for insomniac people (they'll definitely fall unconscious while playing it).....
Posted 2/22/08

CoExist wrote:


mangoku wrote:


CoExist wrote:


Trigin wrote:

ouch that's a blow to gamers, Misspelling one of the Best games ever made... Biohazard ? ITS BIOSHOCK FFS,

and yes, it would easily be worth getting,

1) Oblivion
2) Ninja Gaiden II
3) Devil May Cry 4
4) Katamari Damacy
5) Viva Pinata
6) Lost Planet
7) Guitar Hero II / III
8) Rock Band
9) Eternal Sonata
10) Kingdom Under Fire: Series

Those are just some of the games that are Must haves, and even tho some may also be for the PS3 guess what, THE PS3 IS 200$ MORE !!! so yea, Get the .01% Lesser Graphic System with the same games and game play with BETTER controls and MORE games to Choose From then the PS3 which has NOTHING right now other then Resistance, Every other game that WAS a Exclusive is now Ported over to the 360 Because the PS3 Is unpopular like shit cuz of the 700$ Price tag on the original and the 150$ cut on the price for the newer ones now,

The PS3 is a waste of money for right now, it has NOTHING good on it that you cant get for the 360, the only thing that anyone should be looking forward to on the PS3 is MGS4 and FFXIII, and White Knight

That's it no more no less everything else is ported over to the 360 so the PS3 is a HUGE let down for a next gen system, as well as the fact that it looks like a Gorge Foreman Grill


Lol... The PS3 only has graphics similar to the 360 because its brand new. The 360's first games looked like shit and over time they started learning how the system worked and learned how to maximize it. So 2-3 years AFTER the 360 made its debut it can barely compete with the brand new PS3? LOL In a year or two the 360 will be no where near as graphically beautiful as the PS3.

I will admit the 360 has a much MUCH better controller than the PS3. The 360's controller is so comfortable compared the the PS3.

Companies just gave some titles to Microsoft because they are selling right now and they have like an unlimited funding considering Bill Gates and all >.> Once PS3 gets a few decent games out which really shouldn't be that long since its been out for a while now the companies will start investing in some good games for the PS3.

The PS3 is a let down only because of its price tag you kinda need to realize that. The 360 costs more than the PS3 when you look at in the long run considering its 50 dollars a year for Xbox Live when the PS3 is free so it kind of adds up after about 2-3 years and you SHOULD have a system for longer than that so therefore Xbox 360's price tag > PS3's price tag.

Also honestly the 360 is only known for FPS and Ninja Gaiden. Everything else you can get on another system. If you don't believe me ask anyone what their top three games are and it will most likely consist of two FPS or games that you can get on other systems.

Xbox 360 Pro $350 or Xbox 360 Elite $450 vs. PS3 $400(40 gig) ugh what a fucking pain in the ass eb and gamestop don't have prices for the 60 gig which is probably $500? I think.


For the last time....there is no real difference between the PS3 and 360's graphics...it all depends on the skill of the programmer....nobody learned how to "maximise" the 360's graphics, the graphics technology in general improved...when the 360 first came out, the graphics of that era did look like that...and Gears of War definitely does not look like shit....if you compare the stats of the 360's graphics processor and the PS3 there is no real difference, except it would seem that some PS3 games have framerate problems *ahem Orange Box *cough cough.....

Companies dont just give microsoft games because they are selling right now....Companies give microsoft games, because the 360 sells more games per console than the PS3 and Wii combined...dont believe me
http://www.xbox360fanboy.com/2008/01/28/360-attach-rate-now-7-games-per-console/

and the 360 is not only known for FPS and Ninja Gaiden....Ninja Gaiden is comparitively small compared to other franchises....Fable 2, Mass Effect, Eternal Sonata, Blue Dragon....all good rated RPG's that are for 360.....

and the PS3 (george foreman grill) is a waste of money....unless youre into the MGS4 and FFXIII, and White Knight kind of games....and when you say the PS3 is cheaper in the long run, youre wrong....because Blu-Ray is more expensive than DVD and the fact that the PS3 controller has only half the battery life of the 360... the only way you save is if you buy less than 2 games a year...and if you did buy less than 2 games a year, it would prove that the PS3 doesnt have good games...

and so the 360 is definitely worth more....but most of our childhoods took place playing the playstation1 and 2....thereby making alot of us Playstation Fans who dont research and believe anything sony says.....

and if you want to argue about the Red Ring of Death and the Fan Noise problem of the 360....realise that all new 360's produced come with the new Falcon chipset...designed to eliminate these problems


Uhh Lol? The only reason it has sold more is because its been out longer and programmers have had the chance to experiment with it unlike the new PS3. Who the fuck cares about controller battery life? Another thing who the fuck in this day and age doesn't have a separate DVD player to play DVDs than just relying on a console? I have about 3-4 DVD players and everything except the 360 and PS3 because both of them have shit games IMO. Also if you don't fucking read the news companies are planning to sell Blu-Ray and discontinue HD. So therefore Blu-Ray discs will go down in price eventually. The only decent game you've named is possibly Fable 2 if its longer and gives you more abilities and Mass Effect. Blue Dragon and Eternal Sonata look like utter shit and very very childish RPG games again thats in my opinion.

Okay so its not cheaper? A pro Xbox 360 is $350 and then in a span of three years that adds up to $150 dollars for Xbox Live so thats $500 + Tax compared to the PS3 40 gig since I used the cheaper 360 is $400 with no extra Online costs.

Game wise? It all depends on preference. The Xbox has shit RPGs compared to the Playstation 2 and eventually Playstation 3.

The 360 has been out for over two years I think and the programmers can only go far enough that it only resembles the PS3's shitty games right now? The PS3 has better technology its basically been stated and proven in every single game that the PS3 and 360 produce. The PS3's graphics just look better than the 360's although they look very similar. After a couple years have passed the PS3 will start to show its true nature when programmers get to play with it for a little while longer.

Also I never said anything about GoW and that game came out what last year? What the fuck does battery life have to do with money? It comes with a fucking charger dumbass so therefore that argument is completely worthless. I could really care less about the ring of death and what not it just shows how poorly made the 360 was that majority of the 360 buyers have had to send their 360 back atleast once.

I would really like to not discuss which system has better games because it honestly depends on each person's preferences and both of them have their strengths and weaknesses in the game selection category.


LLP69 wrote:

You can put Linux on the xbox 360 now too but i dont care, i already have a pc and the extra storage space on the ps3 doesn't matter because you can just buy a laptop hard drive of any size and put it in your 360, same with ps3... I think the only thing that matters is exclusives...i dont care about blu-ray or HDDVD player stream movies to my tv from my pc all the time.

xbox 360:
fable 2
halo 3
Ninja Gaiden 2
Gears of War 2
Dead or Alive 5
Forza Motorsport 3
Halo:Chronicles
Crackdown
Dead Rising
Mass Effect
Bioshock

ps3:
Metal Gear Solid 4
Metal Gear Online
Drake's Fortune
Ratchet and Clank Series
Heavenly Sword
Army of Two
Resistance: Fall of Man
Tekken
Final Fantasy Series
Gran Turismo 5
White Knight Chronicles


I think thats it...if you know more add to the list and by the way I have both so I get all exclusives =)


I think I missed a few but meh those are some of the major ones.


UH WTH...the xbox 360 sells more games..BECAUSE ITS GAMES ARE BETTER....go check metacritic...im sick and tired of posting the same links....the PS3 on average rates less...and SELLS LESS.....even the orange box on the 360 rates higher than the PS3.... http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=32972 ....and ....and when i say DVD is cheaper than Blu Ray, i mean the games for 360 are cheaper than PS3 games, where i live, to make the games the same price, game shops put the blu ray discs in cheap ass plastic cases without the manuals....and the fact that the 360 came out before the PS3 is no excuse....since the PS3 came out later it should be better, because it has time to improve its design....if you read, youll find out that the entire RROD problem of the 360 is because microsoft rushed the design to release before the PS3...

Posted 2/22/08
[Im double posting to prevent a quote fest]
What the hell are you talking about when you say "The 360 has been out for over two years I think and the programmers can only go far enough that it only resembles the PS3's shitty games right now"....if you watch comparison videos...its the PS3 that has the worse graphics....and framerate problems....even the ps3's best games dont have greater graphics...for the last time the graphics are equal.

And when the PS3 is released later, everyone says wait a bit for it to have good games...The Original Xbox was released after the PS2....had better technology...and was released with games that had better graphics than the PS2 games of that time....THERE IS NO EXCUSE for the PS3's lameness.....because microsoft didnt need any time to make the original xbox's graphics show, why do we have to wait a few years until the PS3's graphics show....
Posted 2/22/08

CoExist wrote:


mangoku wrote:

UH WTH...the xbox 360 sells more games..BECAUSE ITS GAMES ARE BETTER....go check metacritic...im sick and tired of posting the same links....the PS3 on average rates less...and SELLS LESS.....even the orange box on the 360 rates higher than the PS3.... http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=32972 ....and ....and when i say DVD is cheaper than Blu Ray, i mean the games for 360 are cheaper than PS3 games, where i live, to make the games the same price, game shops put the blu ray discs in cheap ass plastic cases without the manuals....and the fact that the 360 came out before the PS3 is no excuse....since the PS3 came out later it should be better, because it has time to improve its design....if you read, youll find out that the entire RROD problem of the 360 is because microsoft rushed the design to release before the PS3...



Right thats why the PS3 actually sold more than the 360 and Wii this month or some time frame from recently to back sometimes lmao.

Games are better? Which ones? The only games the 360 has that are worth it the exclusives that is are the FPS and Tecmo games. Fable was a DECENT RPG at best. It was far too short and didn't give you enough time to even level majority of your skills so you had to pick one way strength, speed, or magic or you basically sucked. You still don't fucking understand learn how to fucking read the 360 only sells more because it has been out longer. EVERY system has mediocre/shitty games on its launch compared to 1-2 years in the future.

Do you not fucking listen? Blu-Ray will become cheaper than DVDs very shortly. Even fucking Toshiba backed out on the HD DVDs and will most likely go to Blu-Ray like everyone else. Also you must live somewhere shitty because in the US 360 and PS3 games are both $60.

The Eternal Sonata and Blue Dragon games look like utter shit that real RPGs spit out. Also its pretty obvious that the RROD was because it was rushed because they NEED an upper hand against Sony. There is a reason why PS2 raped Xbox in every single way lmao.


mangoku wrote:

[Im double posting to prevent a quote fest]
What the hell are you talking about when you say "The 360 has been out for over two years I think and the programmers can only go far enough that it only resembles the PS3's shitty games right now"....if you watch comparison videos...its the PS3 that has the worse graphics....and framerate problems....even the ps3's best games dont have greater graphics...for the last time the graphics are equal.

And when the PS3 is released later, everyone says wait a bit for it to have good games...The Original Xbox was released after the PS2....had better technology...and was released with games that had better graphics than the PS2 games of that time....THERE IS NO EXCUSE for the PS3's lameness.....because microsoft didnt need any time to make the original xbox's graphics show, why do we have to wait a few years until the PS3's graphics show....



Uhh Lol? What game did the 360 produce when it first launched that looked as good as the ones today? Name me three and I'll leave this topic.


1.Gears of War
2.Quake 4
3. Call of Duty 2

They look just as good as todays games, provided you have a hd tv...the only difference is todays games have better textures....

The PS3 sold more....because the 360 had sales shortages.....the 360 sold too much during the holiday season....and even right now...the 360 still sells more games than the PS3...and why...because the games are good... you prove yourself to be the more ignorant one by saying " Games are better? Which ones "......and I say...would you buy a PS3 if it didnt have its adventure/RPG's....and if you still want to say the 360 has shitty games http://www.metacritic.com/games/ps3/scores/
http://www.metacritic.com/games/xbox360/scores/....compare the review scores...the 360 has twice as many high rated games as the PS3...it is a FACT that the 360 games are better...and dont go giving teh Metal Gear, Final Fantasy excuse, because its annoying...and theyre only 3 to 4 games....

and Fable was an awesome RPG...it just was too short...if you couldnt level up your skills before the end of the game...thats the fault of your game playing skills, because i leveled up just fine...

it was fun arguing with you...i probably wont change your mind...you seem to be an RPG type person...and im a true blue FPS fan (i rarely play RPG's)......
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Posted 2/22/08
who wants a 360 when u can get a PS3? that's the question.
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24 / M / Milky Way, Earth
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Posted 2/23/08
Um.. its So-so since i Bought my XBOX 360 cause of halo 3 but i still like the RPG games on it. So Probably not but its something to consider.
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Posted 2/23/08
I couldnt withstand X Box 360 without Halo 3
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Posted 2/23/08
I mean sereously i'm almost a captain and I beat Legendary
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Posted 2/23/08
yea if i had money z_z
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26 / M / sOmE WhErE iN My...
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Posted 2/23/08
of course i would (though i have one..lol)
beside their are more amazing games out for the 360 than just shooters
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Posted 2/23/08
Well, yeah. It's got Devil May Cry 4, Eternal Sonata, and even more games like that that are already out or are coming out as well. It's not just for shooters, even though that's it's specialty.

It's like how Nintendo has more games aimed at a younger audience games like Mario and how Sony deals with RPGs the most (well, some action-adventure as well).
Posted 2/23/08

CoExist wrote:


mangoku wrote:


CoExist wrote:


mangoku wrote:

UH WTH...the xbox 360 sells more games..BECAUSE ITS GAMES ARE BETTER....go check metacritic...im sick and tired of posting the same links....the PS3 on average rates less...and SELLS LESS.....even the orange box on the 360 rates higher than the PS3.... http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=32972 ....and ....and when i say DVD is cheaper than Blu Ray, i mean the games for 360 are cheaper than PS3 games, where i live, to make the games the same price, game shops put the blu ray discs in cheap ass plastic cases without the manuals....and the fact that the 360 came out before the PS3 is no excuse....since the PS3 came out later it should be better, because it has time to improve its design....if you read, youll find out that the entire RROD problem of the 360 is because microsoft rushed the design to release before the PS3...



Right thats why the PS3 actually sold more than the 360 and Wii this month or some time frame from recently to back sometimes lmao.

Games are better? Which ones? The only games the 360 has that are worth it the exclusives that is are the FPS and Tecmo games. Fable was a DECENT RPG at best. It was far too short and didn't give you enough time to even level majority of your skills so you had to pick one way strength, speed, or magic or you basically sucked. You still don't fucking understand learn how to fucking read the 360 only sells more because it has been out longer. EVERY system has mediocre/shitty games on its launch compared to 1-2 years in the future.

Do you not fucking listen? Blu-Ray will become cheaper than DVDs very shortly. Even fucking Toshiba backed out on the HD DVDs and will most likely go to Blu-Ray like everyone else. Also you must live somewhere shitty because in the US 360 and PS3 games are both $60.

The Eternal Sonata and Blue Dragon games look like utter shit that real RPGs spit out. Also its pretty obvious that the RROD was because it was rushed because they NEED an upper hand against Sony. There is a reason why PS2 raped Xbox in every single way lmao.


mangoku wrote:

[Im double posting to prevent a quote fest]
What the hell are you talking about when you say "The 360 has been out for over two years I think and the programmers can only go far enough that it only resembles the PS3's shitty games right now"....if you watch comparison videos...its the PS3 that has the worse graphics....and framerate problems....even the ps3's best games dont have greater graphics...for the last time the graphics are equal.

And when the PS3 is released later, everyone says wait a bit for it to have good games...The Original Xbox was released after the PS2....had better technology...and was released with games that had better graphics than the PS2 games of that time....THERE IS NO EXCUSE for the PS3's lameness.....because microsoft didnt need any time to make the original xbox's graphics show, why do we have to wait a few years until the PS3's graphics show....



Uhh Lol? What game did the 360 produce when it first launched that looked as good as the ones today? Name me three and I'll leave this topic.


1.Gears of War
2.Quake 4
3. Call of Duty 2

They look just as good as todays games, provided you have a hd tv...the only difference is todays games have better textures....

The PS3 sold more....because the 360 had sales shortages.....the 360 sold too much during the holiday season....and even right now...the 360 still sells more games than the PS3...and why...because the games are good... you prove yourself to be the more ignorant one by saying " Games are better? Which ones "......and I say...would you buy a PS3 if it didnt have its adventure/RPG's....and if you still want to say the 360 has shitty games http://www.metacritic.com/games/ps3/scores/
http://www.metacritic.com/games/xbox360/scores/....compare the review scores...the 360 has twice as many high rated games as the PS3...it is a FACT that the 360 games are better...and dont go giving teh Metal Gear, Final Fantasy excuse, because its annoying...and theyre only 3 to 4 games....

and Fable was an awesome RPG...it just was too short...if you couldnt level up your skills before the end of the game...thats the fault of your game playing skills, because i leveled up just fine...

it was fun arguing with you...i probably wont change your mind...you seem to be an RPG type person...and im a true blue FPS fan (i rarely play RPG's)......


And that is exactly why you dislike the PS3 and prefer the 360.
360 Launch Date Nov 22, 2005
Gears of War was Nov 7, 2006
Quake 4 was bleh can't find the specific date but its not an exclusive either so its more or less invalid.
Call of Duty 2 was November 15th 2005 once again not an exclusive so other systems had it.

Fable had two issues. Its length and its difficulty. It was far too easy you could basically win blindfolded if you really wanted to.

The 360 honestly doesn't have better games IF you take out there First Person Shooters. Their RPGs are inferior and their Racing games are far far inferior. The only category where the 360 actually wins is fighting games because DoA is way better than Tekken. Rockband and Guitar Hero and that shit is on every single system basically.

Enough with the metacritic shit. Wow twice as many high rated games? Astonishing. PS3 Launched a full year after the 360 and the Wii was released December 8th, 2006 now I wonder why everyone already had a 360 and bought their games

Reason why everyone bought a 360? To get into the Halo fad, people are followers so they bought it and played it. Another reason why so many 360's were sold was because they didn't have any competition for a full year because no one released their products.

Honestly I'm into all types of games but I don't see what the big fucking deal about Halo is. Halo reminds me of Naruto its actually quite funny because its not a spectacular game. There is nothing new or special about it. Wow futuristic planes and tanks nothing new but a different design of something else. I like all games but I am a bit biased towards FPS on consoles because you don't get the precision as you would on a computer with a mouse.

Also I said that Eternal Sonata and Blue Dragon were shitty games not all 360 games.

Edit: What was the point in you showing me a link to a sale of a single game? Also its pretty obvious that if the 360 sold more units that they'd sell more games... thats pretty much common sense don't you think?


read the facts again....the 360 sells more games PER UNIT....7 games to be exact...compared to 3 for the PS3.....and i dont get the big deal behind metal gear, you dont get halo, its our different opinions....and i agree that the 360 sold more because it released a year earlier...but thats not the only reason people buy it....and halo is nothing like naruto....have you even played it...and there doesnt even need to be anything new or special about halo...because it is a tried and tested formula that works and has been perfected.....please dont quote me anymore....this is getting really long, lets just leave it at our separate opinions..
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Posted 2/23/08
this thread is prolly made by some ps3 fanboy
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