First  Prev  1  2  3  4  Next  Last
Post Reply Why is suicide bad but self sacrifice not?
42255 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
25 / F / New Jersey, USA
Offline
Posted 12/5/15

thegreywitch wrote:

I guess in sociaty's eyes it depends on why they're doing it. A terrorist blowing him or herself up seems isn't more honourable that a person downing a bottle of pills because he or she feels like a burden to others, both depending on who it is and where they are from could be seen as cowardly or just, although its ultimately a matter of perspective. For instance, the passengers of United 93 that died stopping a plane on 911, self sacrifice in that instance oft, is regarded as honourable. A person with a terminal illness in constant pain might seek assistance in ending their life, might be met with controversy due to their ethical or religious beliefs.

So its subjective.


So it's mainly how society sees it?
Posted 12/5/15

qualeshia3 wrote:


thegreywitch wrote:

I guess in sociaty's eyes it depends on why they're doing it. A terrorist blowing him or herself up seems isn't more honourable that a person downing a bottle of pills because he or she feels like a burden to others, both depending on who it is and where they are from could be seen as cowardly or just, although its ultimately a matter of perspective. For instance, the passengers of United 93 that died stopping a plane on 911, self sacrifice in that instance oft, is regarded as honourable. A person with a terminal illness in constant pain might seek assistance in ending their life, might be met with controversy due to their ethical or religious beliefs.

So its subjective.


So it's mainly how society sees it?


The eyes of others as well as their own motivations, yes, its rather subjective.
42255 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
25 / F / New Jersey, USA
Offline
Posted 12/5/15

thegreywitch wrote:


qualeshia3 wrote:


thegreywitch wrote:

I guess in sociaty's eyes it depends on why they're doing it. A terrorist blowing him or herself up seems isn't more honourable that a person downing a bottle of pills because he or she feels like a burden to others, both depending on who it is and where they are from could be seen as cowardly or just, although its ultimately a matter of perspective. For instance, the passengers of United 93 that died stopping a plane on 911, self sacrifice in that instance oft, is regarded as honourable. A person with a terminal illness in constant pain might seek assistance in ending their life, might be met with controversy due to their ethical or religious beliefs.

So its subjective.


So it's mainly how society sees it?


The eyes of others as well as their own motivations, yes, its rather subjective.


Okay then.
1430 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
24 / M
Offline
Posted 12/5/15
This isn't complicated.

Suicide ends with your life being finished, and with all of the pain and suffering that leaves behind to your loved ones. As well as your own, to be fair.

Avoiding pain by going the easy route, rather than trying to make it through life the best that you can, makes suicide a "bad" prospect to many people. Also, it comes across as selfish if you have anybody who cares about you in the slightest.

Self sacrifice on the other hand sets a precedent of helping others, something that actually can have societal benefits. It also cannot be considered selfish as suicide can, as even if your loved ones are hurt by what you have done they at least might respect your decision.

---

In short: Suicide is selfish and has no benefit to anybody but yourself (and even then, usually not, unless you had a terminal illness or something). Self sacrifice on the other hand helps society overall, and if more people actually were willing to sacrifice for others the world might actually be a much better place to live in.

So it's obvious which one should be supported.
42255 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
25 / F / New Jersey, USA
Offline
Posted 12/5/15

dichologos wrote:

This isn't complicated.

Suicide ends with your life being finished, and with all of the pain and suffering that leaves behind to your loved ones. As well as your own, to be fair.

Avoiding pain by going the easy route, rather than trying to make it through life the best that you can, makes suicide a "bad" prospect to many people. Also, it comes across as selfish if you have anybody who cares about you in the slightest.

Self sacrifice on the other hand sets a precedent of helping others, something that actually can have societal benefits. It also cannot be considered selfish as suicide can, as even if your loved ones are hurt by what you have done they at least might respect your decision.

---

In short: Suicide is selfish and has no benefit to anybody but yourself (and even then, usually not, unless you had a terminal illness or something). Self sacrifice on the other hand helps society overall, and if more people actually were willing to sacrifice for others the world might actually be a much better place to live in.

So it's obvious which one should be supported.



What if you don't support both?
1430 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
24 / M
Offline
Posted 12/5/15 , edited 12/5/15

qualeshia3 wrote:


dichologos wrote:

This isn't complicated.

Suicide ends with your life being finished, and with all of the pain and suffering that leaves behind to your loved ones. As well as your own, to be fair.

Avoiding pain by going the easy route, rather than trying to make it through life the best that you can, makes suicide a "bad" prospect to many people. Also, it comes across as selfish if you have anybody who cares about you in the slightest.

Self sacrifice on the other hand sets a precedent of helping others, something that actually can have societal benefits. It also cannot be considered selfish as suicide can, as even if your loved ones are hurt by what you have done they at least might respect your decision.

---

In short: Suicide is selfish and has no benefit to anybody but yourself (and even then, usually not, unless you had a terminal illness or something). Self sacrifice on the other hand helps society overall, and if more people actually were willing to sacrifice for others the world might actually be a much better place to live in.

So it's obvious which one should be supported.



What if you don't support both?


Well, if you don't support a person doing something for the greater good of society, that's pretty much the definition of being a sociopath. More power to you I suppose.

Though I should be clear here that there is a difference between reasonable self sacrifice, and being so into it that you end up destroying yourself and doing more harm than good in the long run.

I expect people to be selfish - we are selfish animals after all. But being able to overcome that selfish nature and give up some of your time in life to help others is to me one of the few things that separates man from beast.

Edit: My apologies if that was a bit insulting, I didn't mean anything by it. This sort of thing tends to get on my nerves though.
42255 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
25 / F / New Jersey, USA
Offline
Posted 12/5/15


It's fine.
14916 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
F / San Francisco
Offline
Posted 12/5/15
Self sacrifice is usually categorized as something with an immediate effect. It's running into the middle of the street to push a child out of the way (while you take the blow) or something similar. It's not categorized as a sacrifice with a benefit that won't be seen days, months or even years later.
11663 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
21 / M
Offline
Posted 12/5/15 , edited 12/5/15
one falls into suicide through lack of direction but one must work to walk the moral path to achieve self-sacrifice
Bavalt 
22029 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
28 / M / Canada
Offline
Posted 12/5/15
I don't see anything wrong with suicide. If someone wants to take their own life, that's their prerogative. Unless they've got specific responsibilities to fulfill, I've got no problem with it. I don't believe in such a thing as a "debt to society" or arbitrarily having to contribute something. The world forces you to contribute something in order to live well as it is. You work for the means to live. Why is it a problem when someone chooses not to contribute by also foregoing the benefit they would have gotten from that contribution? That's the entire transaction. If you don't like your life, then I don't think you ought to be pressured to go through with it anyway. Not wanting someone to commit suicide is understandable. That's empathy at work, and there's nothing wrong with that. Condemning everyone who does it is oppressive. I get that life is tough for virtually everyone, but there's really not any point in demonizing someone because they couldn't take it. The motive is just to be validated for your own suffering, that you were "tough enough" to wade through, but in reality, that has nothing to do with the situation.

As for self-sacrifice, I'm pretty iffy on that one. It boils down to whether or not the person doing it really wanted that to be the result. If you willingly sacrifice yourself to accomplish something, that's fine (but not good in and of itself; it just means that you care a lot about the thing you wanted to accomplish.) If you're manipulated into it, that's unacceptable. A soldier diving onto a grenade to save his friends is a hero (assuming his friends wanted to live). A soldier diving onto a grenade to save the surrounding flora from being damaged is a little weird, but not problematic. A soldier being sent, unknowing, on a suicide mission is just a victim of his commander's moral inadequacy.

That's my take on it, anyway. My ethics are pretty starkly on the individualistic side of things. There's no reason, to me, to recognize the species or society as a whole morally, outside of the fact that other people are moral agents just like oneself. The most important thing should be to avoid obstructing the individual agency of others. Life doesn't have any inherent worth, and trying to force another person to live or die for your own sake is a dick move, because forcing people to do things is in itself the cardinal dick move.
Posted 12/5/15
Suicide is basically nuking yourself.
Self Sacrifice is helping others
15742 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
24 / M
Offline
Posted 12/5/15
It's a loop hole where they try and convince others to give their lives for others.
11744 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
23
Online
Posted 12/5/15
Self sacrifice.. It's like a monk abstaining from lust and the like.
Suicide can be for any number of reasons, whether they be killing yourself via bomb, gun, knife, pills, etc.. The word terrorist is way overused nowadays.
Posted 12/5/15
People think that all problems can be solved.
9449 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
22 / M / United States
Online
Posted 12/5/15
Suicide is about ending life. Self-sacrifice is about saying, "I'm going to esteem your life as more important than my own."
First  Prev  1  2  3  4  Next  Last
You must be logged in to post.