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Was Kirito Justified in S1 Arc 2? (Spoilers)
Posted 12/5/15

Somewhat_Insane_Monkey wrote:


PeripheralVisionary wrote:


Somewhat_Insane_Monkey wrote:


PeripheralVisionary wrote:

In my opinion, you shouldn't tolerate torture as a punishment if done by a large or official segment of the government or governing power. IT sets a dangerous precedent. If you've read Orwell's animal farm, it turns the history of the animal commandments into a former shadow of itself, twisting the wording and meaning till it resembles something entirely different. In 1984, torture is used to crush "dissent", and look at all the governments since that time that engage in such a practice!


In other words, if the police torture even a guilty suspect of a heinous crime, you should generally be against it. Protect the rights of one and you protect the rights of all it applies to. Yada yada.


I get it now, yeah torture should be frowned upon but... As much as we don't like it every government uses it you just won't hear about most of the time. No way your run of the mill police officer will be able to do it or get away with it for that matter but I have no doubt we let private contractors and spies do it with no accountability.

As for the matter of Kirito, well that's up to perspective a lot of people would have condemned the action but also know if they were put in his shoes they would have done the same thing.


I said as a form of punishment. Everyone frowns on Adu Ghirab but not on the confessions supposedly leading to Osama. Mainly because Ghirab was done for shits and giggles. Not a whole lot of Governments engage in institutionalized torture.


That's where the private contractors come in so they can deny the action if caught.


Thank you. Wasn't sure what you were saying. <Emoticon looks like a terrorist.
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Posted 12/5/15 , edited 12/5/15
Let's lay out the crimes Sugou was guilty of:
1. Psychological torture of Asuna.
2. Kidnapping of Asuna and other players from SAO.
3. Human experimentation on on the kidnapped players.
4. Attempted murder of Kirito.

There are other crimes. But, those are the big ones. I personally feel not only was Kirito justified in his actions, but he showed remarkable restraint. On the actual legality of what Kirito did, that would depend on the laws of Japan at that time. But, most likely they would be considered perfectly legal.

Also, in the hospital parking lot Kirito showed remarkable restraint. After being physically assaulted with a deadly weapon, he did not kill Sugou.

Personally I think they should have given Kirito a freaking medal.

Edit: As an aside. If someone would try to do something similar to someone I love, I would have a hard time showing the restraint Kirito showed.
Posted 12/5/15 , edited 12/5/15

dracphelan wrote:

Let's lay out the crimes Sugou was guilty of:
1. Psychological torture of Asuna.
2. Kidnapping of Asuna and other players from SAO.
3. Human experimentation on on the kidnapped players.
4. Attempted murder of Kirito.

There are other crimes. But, those are the big ones. I personally feel not only was Kirito justified in his actions, but he showed remarkable restraint. On the actual legality of what Kirito did, that would depend on the laws of Japan at that time. But, most likely they would be considered perfectly legal.

Also, in the hospital parking lot Kirito showed remarkable restraint. After being physically assaulted with a deadly weapon, he did not kill Sugou.

Personally I think they should have given Kirito a freaking medal.

Edit: As an aside. If someone would try to do something similar to someone I love, I would have a hard time showing the restraint Kirito showed.


I don't think he showed restraint at all. He used a medium in all its glory to give sugou what it feels like to be hacked apart and you call that restraint? Sure, it could've been slightly gorier, but he was on a time restraint. I don't see it as restraint. I see it as reveling in the suffering of another. Where's the restraint in that?

As for the legality, it depends. I've seen people let off for certain crimes, such as Cheryl Pearson and Sean Pica, while there are undoubtedly cases where both parties were charged with wrong doing. I hope you're not serious when you say perfectly legal, unless we're referring to the lagging of laws behind technology.
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Posted 12/5/15 , edited 12/5/15
I think it was justified. Self defense all the way. That guy had a god complex. Kirito had to take it that far or that guy wouldn't have stopped.
Posted 12/5/15

megazerox7 wrote:

I think it was justified. Self defense all the way. That guy had a god complex. Kirito had to take it that far or that guy wouldn't have stopped.


He wouldn't have stopped till he was killed. Doesn't matter. Kirito could've just taken him to the police couldn't he? I mean he was arrested afterwards.
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Posted 12/5/15 , edited 12/5/15

PeripheralVisionary wrote:

So I see a lot of hate for the fairy king guy, but in case you didn't know....




So basically, keep in mind that this is punitive punishment of an obviously guilty party. What do you think?


First of all, in my book, it was divine punishment.

Second of all, he had it comin' to him and I wouldn't be surprised if Kirito said, "And i'd do it again!"
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Posted 12/5/15 , edited 12/5/15
It's easier to justify Kirito's actions than it is to justify the entire series' existence.
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Posted 12/5/15

Saemonza wrote:

It's easier to justify Kirito's actions than it is to justify the entire series' existence.


I was just going to say that the entirety of that second arc was not justified.
Posted 12/5/15

Saemonza wrote:

It's easier to justify Kirito's actions than it is to justify the entire series' existence.


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Posted 12/5/15
Like other people have said, Sugou's actions prove that he is scum, and when you think about it calmly, yes maybe Kirito could of held back a little more.

But in that situation, I doubt many would of done things differently.

When I try to put myself in Kirito's shoes, all I would be thinking about is saving Asuna and stopping Sugou in any way possible. Although turning the pain meter down to zero is harsh, Sugou was the first one to mess with it. (and yeah I know just because someone else does it still doesn't justify it) But in the heat of the moment, with the love of my life being tortured and disgraced in front of me, and me being stabbed to the ground forced to watch it, yeah I might go a little ape shit on the person doing those things.

Is it justifiable? Who really knows. Without actually being in the situation ourselves, it is all just speculation and opinions.
Posted 12/5/15
What Kirito did was not necessary but probably really cathartic and provided solace to him, and that decision within the moment is good enough of a reason considering the situation of it all. I don't see anything wrong with what he did, trying to decide wither or not it was good is up to each of us individually. I have a problem with forcing yourself to hold up to a grandiose objective justice and righteousness for the sake of others in order to do what others think is right, we all innately have an idea of what should be done we just have to take responsibility in the end.
Posted 12/5/15 , edited 12/5/15

potentsativa wrote:

What Kirito did was not necessary but probably really cathartic and provided solace to him, and that decision within the moment is good enough of a reason considering the situation of it all. I don't see anything wrong with what he did, trying to decide wither or not it was good is up to each of us individually. I have a problem with forcing yourself to hold up to a grandiose objective justice and righteousness for the sake of others in order to do what others think is right, we all innately have an idea of what should be done we just have to take responsibility in the end.


I remember when I felt good at the suffering of another. I never want to feel that way again. It eats you up. I don't think anyone should feel that way. It's a truly primitive, savage feeling, to rejoice in the suffering of others. There's justice and there's this. It's sort of sickening, these replies in this thread, excusing our morally infallible hero from doing no wrong while rejoicing in the fact that Light killed a shitload of people. Man, it just feels self righteous.
Posted 12/5/15 , edited 12/5/15

PeripheralVisionary wrote:


potentsativa wrote:

What Kirito did was not necessary but probably really cathartic and provided solace to him, and that decision within the moment is good enough of a reason considering the situation of it all. I don't see anything wrong with what he did, trying to decide wither or not it was good is up to each of us individually. I have a problem with forcing yourself to hold up to a grandiose objective justice and righteousness for the sake of others in order to do what others think is right, we all innately have an idea of what should be done we just have to take responsibility in the end.


I remember when I felt good at the suffering of another. I never want to feel that way again. It eats you up. I don't think anyone should feel that way.


I think in Kiritos case "insanity" had to come out in one form or another, either with what he did towards the fairy king or through years of intense hatred towards him. He choose the l̶a̶t̶t̶e̶r̶ *edit: I meant the former* which is the quicker path. Also I think we all find some weird/odd sort of pleasure in the suffering of others take for example really gory violent movies, things like jackass, UFC, sexual sadism,etc it may not be the only reason we do but it's a part of it and I find it weird. Also those are more subtle examples and not at the same severity of what your talking about but are still times when people take pleasure in the suffering of others. I'm quite curious as to why we do and I'm quite ignorant on the psychology behind it.
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Posted 12/5/15 , edited 12/5/15

PeripheralVisionary wrote:


dracphelan wrote:

Let's lay out the crimes Sugou was guilty of:
1. Psychological torture of Asuna.
2. Kidnapping of Asuna and other players from SAO.
3. Human experimentation on on the kidnapped players.
4. Attempted murder of Kirito.

There are other crimes. But, those are the big ones. I personally feel not only was Kirito justified in his actions, but he showed remarkable restraint. On the actual legality of what Kirito did, that would depend on the laws of Japan at that time. But, most likely they would be considered perfectly legal.

Also, in the hospital parking lot Kirito showed remarkable restraint. After being physically assaulted with a deadly weapon, he did not kill Sugou.

Personally I think they should have given Kirito a freaking medal.

Edit: As an aside. If someone would try to do something similar to someone I love, I would have a hard time showing the restraint Kirito showed.


I don't think he showed restraint at all. He used a medium in all its glory to give sugou what it feels like to be hacked apart and you call that restraint? Sure, it could've been slightly gorier, but he was on a time restraint. I don't see it as restraint. I see it as reveling in the suffering of another. Where's the restraint in that?

As for the legality, it depends. I've seen people let off for certain crimes, such as Cheryl Pearson and Sean Pica, while there are undoubtedly cases where both parties were charged with wrong doing. I hope you're not serious when you say perfectly legal, unless we're referring to the lagging of laws behind technology.


I think what he meant by restraint is when he spared his life even though he could have killed him and considering Sugou attempted to kill him Kirito could have killed him and gotten away with it out of self defense. Not only that Kirito had more than one motive to kill him but as you know he didn't.
Posted 12/5/15

potentsativa wrote:


PeripheralVisionary wrote:


potentsativa wrote:

What Kirito did was not necessary but probably really cathartic and provided solace to him, and that decision within the moment is good enough of a reason considering the situation of it all. I don't see anything wrong with what he did, trying to decide wither or not it was good is up to each of us individually. I have a problem with forcing yourself to hold up to a grandiose objective justice and righteousness for the sake of others in order to do what others think is right, we all innately have an idea of what should be done we just have to take responsibility in the end.


I remember when I felt good at the suffering of another. I never want to feel that way again. It eats you up. I don't think anyone should feel that way.


I think in Kiritos case "insanity" had to come out in one form or another, either with what he did towards the fairy king or through years of intense hatred towards him. He choose the latter which is the quicker path. Also I think we all find some weird/odd sort of pleasure in the suffering of others take for example really gory violent movies, things like jackass, UFC, sexual sadism,etc it may not be the only reason we do but it's a part of it and I find it weird. Also those are more subtle examples and not at the same severity of what your talking about but are still times when people take pleasure in the suffering of others. I'm quite curious as to why we do and I'm quite ignorant on the psychology behind it.


Perhaps in anime world, although to be fair, it could act as a catharsis now that I think about it, but in the real world, it complicates the psyche situation immensely. Although you are right, it is anime world where real world theories on psychology and whatnot don't necessarily apply, as applied egregiously in how the VRMMOs populace are layered in SAO.
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