First  Prev  1  2  Next  Last
Post Reply What should be done about foreign fighters in isis
13577 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
21 / Australia
Offline
Posted 12/8/15 , edited 12/8/15

VZ68 wrote:


GrandMasterTime wrote:

The mentality of people is scary. If they leave the country legally and distant themselves from the country just prevent them from coming back. No need for this whole execution thing.


I think that's only for the ones that want to come back.

Otherwise would cares?

https://coub.com/view/6b7vy


You broke the forums, how is your post before mine when you posted after, MY BRAIN IS MELTING.

I AM IN THE MATRIX.
27705 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
27 / M / TX
Offline
Posted 12/8/15 , edited 12/8/15

GrandMasterTime wrote:


J-POP187 wrote:


GrandMasterTime wrote:

The mentality of people is scary. If they leave the country legally and distant themselves from the country just prevent them from coming back. No need for this whole execution thing.


The problem is what to do when they either beg to come back/ or sneak back in. That's why I wouldn't mind leaving them there and if they make it back send them back and place them under rebels command with the understanding that they are no longer citizens of the country they left.

What would you do if they sneak back in?


Put them in Christmas island forever or deport them back.


Got to be honest looked up pictures and that place doesn't seem like much of a punishment that place is beautiful. Now if it looked more like Cuba then I could support that although I agree with sending them back to the countries they left to. I wonder how Europe will handle it since they have many more to deal with. Guess we just have to wait and see.
13577 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
21 / Australia
Offline
Posted 12/8/15

J-POP187 wrote:


GrandMasterTime wrote:


J-POP187 wrote:


GrandMasterTime wrote:

The mentality of people is scary. If they leave the country legally and distant themselves from the country just prevent them from coming back. No need for this whole execution thing.


The problem is what to do when they either beg to come back/ or sneak back in. That's why I wouldn't mind leaving them there and if they make it back send them back and place them under rebels command with the understanding that they are no longer citizens of the country they left.

What would you do if they sneak back in?


Put them in Christmas island forever or deport them back.


Got to be honest looked up pictures and that place doesn't seem like much of a punishment that place is beautiful. Now if it looked more like Cuba then I could support that although I agree with sending them back to the countries they left to. I wonder how Europe will handle it since they have many more to deal. Guess we just have to wait and see.


It used to beautiful; now it's just a refugee dumping ground.
10831 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
13 / F / California
Offline
Posted 12/8/15

GrandMasterTime wrote:


VZ68 wrote:


GrandMasterTime wrote:

The mentality of people is scary. If they leave the country legally and distant themselves from the country just prevent them from coming back. No need for this whole execution thing.


I think that's only for the ones that want to come back.

Otherwise would cares?

https://coub.com/view/6b7vy


You broke the forums, how is your post before mine when you posted after, MY BRAIN IS MELTING.


1612 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
23 / M / UK
Offline
Posted 12/8/15 , edited 12/8/15
That's such a simple answer to a complicating problem: "Kill them, Don't let them re-enter"

First of there are people who go abroad to give aid to war torn kids and family's who get pulled into this situation, now if your name is 'Paul' or 'Sarah' your fine, but if you happen to have a middle eastern name your automatically gonna be classed as a affiliate or a extremist and put onto some watch-list which is worrying enough. Furthermore how is it that Jewish US/UK citizens can go to Israel and fight in the army and kill innocent Palestinians and comeback, yet if a Muslim goes to fight a dictator abroad with no intention of joining IS (UnIslamic State) he's a 'extremist' which would most likely be posted all over the media.

In conclusion my point is it's not black & white there's alot of grey.
By grey I mean innocent average Joe's (or Abdul's) could and will most likely be labeled and wrongfully punished.


http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/factcheck-britons-fight-israel/18448
27705 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
27 / M / TX
Offline
Posted 12/8/15

khaled93 wrote:

That's such a simple answer to a complicating problem: "Kill them, Don't let them re-enter"

First of there are people who go abroad to give aid to war torn kids and family's who get pulled into this situation, now if your name is 'Paul' or 'Sarah' your fine, but if you happen to have a middle eastern name your automatically gonna be classed as a affiliate or a extremist and put onto some watch-list which is worrying enough. Furthermore how is it that Jewish US/UK citizens can go to Israel and fight in the army and kill innocent Palestinians and comeback, yet if a Muslim goes to fight a dictator abroad with no intention of joining IS (UnIslamic State) he's a 'extremist' which would most likely be posted all over the media.

In conclusion my point is it's not black & white there's alot of grey.
By grey I mean innocent average Joe's (or Abdul's) could and will most likely be labeled and wrongfully punished.


http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/factcheck-britons-fight-israel/18448


If a westerner was planning to fight against isis than they have to be smart about it. Find out the groups that are fighting look up you country list of terror groups and join the ones that are not on it. "Please note your results may vary should you try this" For America certain Kurdish groups are not on that list while it's highly advise against to join them several Americans have. Basically your average joe needs to have street smarts or middle east smarts if they want to fight isis and remain on good terms with their countries.
Banned
17503 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
29 / M / B.C, Canada
Offline
Posted 12/8/15 , edited 12/8/15

khaled93 wrote:

That's such a simple answer to a complicating problem: "Kill them, Don't let them re-enter"

First of there are people who go abroad to give aid to war torn kids and family's who get pulled into this situation, now if your name is 'Paul' or 'Sarah' your fine, but if you happen to have a middle eastern name your automatically gonna be classed as a affiliate or a extremist and put onto some watch-list which is worrying enough. Furthermore how is it that Jewish US/UK citizens can go to Israel and fight in the army and kill innocent Palestinians and comeback, yet if a Muslim goes to fight a dictator abroad with no intention of joining IS (UnIslamic State) he's a 'extremist' which would most likely be posted all over the media.

In conclusion my point is it's not black & white there's alot of grey.
By grey I mean innocent average Joe's (or Abdul's) could and will most likely be labeled and wrongfully punished.


http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/factcheck-britons-fight-israel/18448


There are plenty of legitimate channels someone who wants to fight against ISIS can go through if they are that raring to go. None of which involve as something as shady as joining local militia that may or may not be a terrorist group itself . As for the Israel versus Palestine thing, Israel and the Israeli people existed long before the largely Arabic Palestinians decided to take the place over.
10831 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
13 / F / California
Offline
Posted 12/8/15

khaled93 wrote:

That's such a simple answer to a complicating problem: "Kill them, Don't let them re-enter"

First of there are people who go abroad to give aid to war torn kids and family's who get pulled into this situation, now if your name is 'Paul' or 'Sarah' your fine, but if you happen to have a middle eastern name your automatically gonna be classed as a affiliate or a extremist and put onto some watch-list which is worrying enough. Furthermore how is it that Jewish US/UK citizens can go to Israel and fight in the army and kill innocent Palestinians and comeback, yet if a Muslim goes to fight a dictator abroad with no intention of joining IS (UnIslamic State) he's a 'extremist' which would most likely be posted all over the media.

In conclusion my point is it's not black & white there's alot of grey.
By grey I mean innocent average Joe's (or Abdul's) could and will most likely be labeled and wrongfully punished.


http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/factcheck-britons-fight-israel/18448


No, I'm pretty sure I'd also put "Paul" or "Sarah"'s head on a pike as well.

I do like the "innocent Palestinians" bit though.

1612 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
23 / M / UK
Offline
Posted 12/8/15


You completely missed my point of there's alot grey I don't get how you can confuse people going to do aid work, with joining a militia or rebel group I was solely taking about people who go over for a number of reasons such as i.e (Aid Worker: Like my friends uncle who got together clothes & medical supplies for the civilian women & children) my point was to differentiate those people from the 'bad apples' rather than dragging every person who goes abroad as a potential radical fanatic.

And with the topic of Israel you statement clearly shows how conditioned people are by the media, If a spotlight isn't directed at all party's that clearly shows a specific agenda. Either make it's illegal for all, or illegal for none.
4733 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
21 / M / Chicago, Illinois
Offline
Posted 12/8/15
I believe the United States needs to stop funding rebellion in Syria. Somehow, people are getting hands on US TOW launchers and shooting down Russian helis with them. The war in Syria is not of our concern anyway. Now, I believe we should be in touch with ISIS' enemies in the region, like the Kurds, but I'm not quite sure about openly funding them... I don't want Afghanistan 3.0 to happen. Man, if Saddam and Gadaffi were still alive, ISIS would be contained and Iran would be scared
10831 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
13 / F / California
Offline
Posted 12/8/15

khaled93 wrote:
You completely missed my point of there's alot grey I don't get how you can confuse people going to do aid work, with joining a militia or rebel group I was solely taking about people who go over for a number of reasons such as i.e (Aid Worker: Like my friends uncle who got together clothes & medical supplies for the civilian women & children) my point was to differentiate those people from the 'bad apples' rather than dragging every person who goes abroad as a potential radical fanatic.

And with the topic of Israel you statement clearly shows how conditioned people are by the media, If a spotlight isn't directed at all party's that clearly shows a specific agenda. Either make it's illegal for all, or illegal for none.


There is no grey area with ISIS/ISIL. We aren't at war with Israel, so there is that little fact.
79213 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
31 / M / Seattle
Offline
Posted 12/8/15 , edited 12/8/15
A simple question with no simple answer. Like most my knee jerk reaction is to say TRAITORS. However, we probably need to step back on find a better solution than just denying them reentry into their countries of origin or throwing them in prison or worse executing them. The reason why we need to do this is to not play into any narrative that ISIS may already have. I am sure that the foreign recruits are subjected to propaganda about never being able to return home once they made a choice to come to this cause. Truth is that most of those who might return have to sneak out of the area regardless. Still we have a problem of not being able to just let them back in.

Truth is that during WWI and WWII all sides used spies who lived in the occupied areas before they were occupied. So we run a huge risk of letting spies into our country out of a notion of forgiveness. They could just be playing the sympathy card so they can get in and help plan or coördinate attacks or use loopholes in the laws to arm ISIS further. At the same time there are plenty who did not realize just how much it would suck being a freedom fighter over there and really do just want to come back and forget things. Chances are that both will tell the same story and one will be indistinguishable from the next. At the end of the day it all boils down to trust. Which can be hard to give when someone returns from an ideology which convinces people to kill themselves.

So what do we do from here... well I guess we can put them on a list and watch them. However, what about the people they interact with? Maybe those people are existing agents or old friends, how do we tell? Maybe the person who returned is looking to recruit people, again how do we tell. This is where freedom of speech really makes things difficult. After all dissent of that kind of protected by the first amendment. Which means you can be a rabid ISIS supporter over here in the states and as long as you are only a vocal supporter no one can touch you. So do we really just restrict the liberties of these individuals because they made a mistake?

I do agree that leaving your country and going to fight a war with a group who has denounced your home country does deserve some kind of punishment. So how do we punish them.. I mean really there are not many options outside of solitary confinement that will really work as a good way to pay a debt to society. prisons are overrun with cult like gangs why not just recruit violent criminals while in prison? Plus how long should they be in prison? How do we figure out who is lying and who is not?

So really this issue is not as cut and dry as we would like it to be on the account that there are plenty of people who go over there and have their views of glory shattered. The problem is should we really punish people who have to smuggle themselves out of this crappy situation? Also how do we prove they are really guilty of any crime? How do we know that they were not just cleaning toilets the whole time? So now there is no good answer. After all, we are all guilty of doing something stupid. If making a mistake was a crime punishable with prison time. Who among us would not have served some jail time? Same thing with joining a terrorist group. It is not illegal to be in the KKK or a sovereign Citizen in the US. Those organizations or ripe with terrorism against people's of the USA. So the question becomes do we suspend our laws and beliefs because of ISIS or do we follow our laws which state innocent until proven guilty. Not really an easy question to answer since it would be impossible to determine if someone actually did fight against US forces over in that territory. It is a tricky question to answer. Though I am sure that we might be able to answer the question some day. I do not feel we are really in a position to make that kind of argument. After all, the western world does not want to turn an entire religion against itself.
25139 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
23 / M / Beyond The Wall
Offline
Posted 12/8/15
Hang the traitors.
27244 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
27 / M
Offline
Posted 12/8/15
You may not want to kill them if their actions don't merit death, but you certainly should not be so soft on them. If we hear every criminal's life story, we'd never punish anyone who breaks any laws. There should be balance, but people like this deserve punishment and ought to be punished.
First  Prev  1  2  Next  Last
You must be logged in to post.