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Post Reply Yale students sign 'petition' to repeal First Amendment
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26 / M / Your friendly nei...
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Posted 12/22/15

BlueOni wrote:

Here's a direct link to the video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJVZa9_Ha5c

The thing to bear in mind is that this was actually a data collection exercise comparable to surveying. Some things I notice are that:

1. The conversations Horowitz points to seem to be primarily taking place at one location at one particular time of day.

2. Horowitz did not ensure that he did not impact the results by collecting signatures personally (see the conversation at 1:10).

3. The context of each selected conversation is not provided, so we have no assurance that they're comparable beyond Horowitz' word.

4. Given the research question it is both allowable and necessary for Horowitz to clearly explain what the first amendment is in a way that does not impact the results (yes, even for Yale students).

Horowitz could be forgiven for injecting social bias into the conversations since that's technically part of the experiment, but he did not ever show himself fully explaining the first amendment to anyone and didn't seem to be controlling the method for injecting social bias. He varied his case extremely widely between 1:15-1:37 and may have misled subjects as to his petition's purpose in the process.

So what we're left with is a presentation of a survey with apparently non-random sampling, evidenced confounding surveyor effects, uncontrolled and deliberate social biasing, no evidence that the question was fully explained to subjects prior to collecting answers, and potentially misleading explanations of purpose. Think about that design.

Now, something else that's important to bear in mind is that Horowitz is a film activist who has openly stated that his inspirational figure was Michael Moore. It is also worthy of mention that Horowitz is a contributor to Fox News, not merely someone Fox News is reporting on. This video is actually one among many installments Horowitz has submitted to Fox, presumably for pay. That puts the data collection methods, presentation of results, and purpose of the work into much needed context.


You might the one source of reason on this entire site.
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22 / M / Arizona
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Posted 12/22/15
This is like Water's world. They cleverly stitch together clips and make it look like they are all stupid.
They may just be that stupid, but I don't trust fox news with unbiased reporting.
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Posted 12/22/15 , edited 12/22/15

thekevin4 wrote:

You might the one source of reason on this entire site.


I do my best.
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Posted 12/22/15
It really goes to show no matter what college you attend you can always make retarded ass decisions.
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Posted 12/22/15 , edited 12/22/15

BlueOni wrote:


thekevin4 wrote:

You might the one source of reason on this entire site.


I do my best.


I appreciate your efforts. I have long since given up on trying to argue with logic, facts, and reason on this forum. Keep up the good fight, and I shall live vicariously through you.
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26 / M / Definitely not EU
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Posted 12/22/15
That was a painful read. What a bunch of wet wipes.
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Posted 12/22/15

descloud wrote: It really goes to show no matter what college you attend you can always make retarded ass decisions.
its the same way you could say about religion as a scientist could know about fossiles and how things went on with earth but still hold their god high up, meaning even you know that is wrong you still hold it no matter who you are, you can keep such thoughts and ideas.

but still there was much editing in the video I guess they would NOT WANT US TO SEE/HEAR?
so I do want the full thing before saying its a bit stupid that so many did.
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Posted 12/22/15 , edited 12/22/15
Regardless of the source, come on Fox news! I think that the fact that college students at one of the most prestigious and expensive universities, the Alma mater of lots of United States' leaders, don't know shit about the First Amendment is really worrying. I'm not even american and I know it.
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Posted 12/22/15 , edited 12/22/15
So my campus isn't the only stupid one. I feel better and worse at the same time.

My university basically had students who were out there demonstrating against pro-lifers who were picketing for, well....pro-life. Their reasoning? Pictures of the fetuses trigger people, so pro-lifers should be banned from picketing there. It almost made Writers' Week seem less awesome.

I'd agree with BlueOni, but I really thought people mostly knew the First Amendment? I didn't know f*** all about any law stuff before I went to law school and I knew the First Amendment. And this is Yale. I don't think they'd require such an explanation. I didn't even apply to Yale even though my GPA was good and my LSAT score was 2150 since I knew I had little hope of getting in.

At this point, I'm beyond being skeptical. Even Stanford has been pretty lulzy. You guys gotta demolish all those old dams but we don't have to demolish ours because we don't want to spend the money! Best and brightest, indeed.

Then, again, lots of the ivy league kids know jack squat. I've written essays for them, and they only got in because they paid people to do their application essays. I should not be surprised, but I want to have hope.
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Posted 12/22/15 , edited 12/22/15

BlueOni wrote:

Here's a direct link to the video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJVZa9_Ha5c

The thing to bear in mind is that this was actually a data collection exercise comparable to surveying. Some things I notice are that:

1. The conversations Horowitz points to seem to be primarily taking place at one location at one particular time of day.

2. Horowitz did not ensure that he did not impact the results by collecting signatures personally (see the conversation at 1:10).

3. The context of each selected conversation is not provided, so we have no assurance that they're comparable beyond Horowitz' word.

4. Given the research question it is both allowable and necessary for Horowitz to clearly explain what the first amendment is in a way that does not impact the results (yes, even for Yale students).

Horowitz could be forgiven for injecting social bias into the conversations since that's technically part of the experiment, but he did not ever show himself fully explaining the first amendment to anyone and didn't seem to be controlling the method for injecting social bias. He varied his case extremely widely between 1:15-1:37 and may have misled subjects as to his petition's purpose in the process.

So what we're left with is a presentation of a survey with apparently non-random sampling, evidenced confounding surveyor effects, uncontrolled and deliberate social biasing, no evidence that the question was fully explained to subjects prior to collecting answers, and potentially misleading explanations of purpose. Think about that design.

Now, something else that's important to bear in mind is that Horowitz is a film activist who has openly stated that his inspirational figure was Michael Moore. It is also worthy of mention that Horowitz is a contributor to Fox News, not merely someone Fox News is reporting on. This video is actually one among many installments Horowitz has submitted to Fox, presumably for pay. That puts the data collection methods, presentation of results, and purpose of the work into much needed context.


I'm not surprised about this being the case. I was skeptical of the experiment's validity the moment I saw Fox News as the OP's source.
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Posted 12/22/15

Freddy96NO wrote:


descloud wrote: It really goes to show no matter what college you attend you can always make retarded ass decisions.
its the same way you could say about religion as a scientist could know about fossiles and how things went on with earth but still hold their god high up, meaning even you know that is wrong you still hold it no matter who you are, you can keep such thoughts and ideas.

but still there was much editing in the video I guess they would NOT WANT US TO SEE/HEAR?
so I do want the full thing before saying its a bit stupid that so many did.


In short as I like to say sometimes.

Smart people, dumb decisions.
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34 / F / In a van down by...
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Posted 12/22/15
It's Fox so I'm a little skeptical about this. Nevertheless, in this day and age, I wouldn't even be surprised....

This is the future of Murrica. Idiots who claim to be so triggered by everything that they want the First Amendment gone or don't know it.

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24 / M / USA
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Posted 12/22/15

Morbidhanson wrote:

So my campus isn't the only stupid one. I feel better and worse at the same time.

My university basically had students who were out there demonstrating against pro-lifers who were picketing for, well....pro-life. Their reasoning? Pictures of the fetuses trigger people, so pro-lifers should be banned from picketing there. It almost made Writers' Week seem less awesome.

I'd agree with BlueOni, but I really thought people mostly knew the First Amendment? I didn't know f*** all about any law stuff before I went to law school and I knew the First Amendment. And this is Yale. I don't think they'd require such an explanation. I didn't even apply to Yale even though my GPA was good and my LSAT score was 2150 since I knew I had little hope of getting in.

At this point, I'm beyond being skeptical. Even Stanford has been pretty lulzy. You guys gotta demolish all those old dams but we don't have to demolish ours because we don't want to spend the money! Best and brightest, indeed.

Then, again, lots of the ivy league kids know jack squat. I've written essays for them, and they only got in because they paid people to do their application essays. I should not be surprised, but I want to have hope.


I like to think people, especially at Yale, know what the 1st Amendment is...



Regardless, it's still hella lolzy.
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Posted 12/22/15
Whether they were misled or not, Americans of any educational background should know backwards and forwards what the First Amendment is. No excuses.
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Posted 12/22/15

descloud wrote: In short as I like to say sometimes.

Smart people, dumb decisions.
well yeah XP
one can't think about everything on every case or choice but could get the time to make it better and try to get the most of the best you could do.

even scooby can know whats up...


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