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Post Reply Yale students sign 'petition' to repeal First Amendment
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Posted 12/23/15

gvblackmoon wrote:


GrandmasterCoolio wrote:


BlueOni wrote:

Here's a direct link to the video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJVZa9_Ha5c

The thing to bear in mind is that this was actually a data collection exercise comparable to surveying. Some things I notice are that:

1. The conversations Horowitz points to seem to be primarily taking place at one location at one particular time of day.

2. Horowitz did not ensure that he did not impact the results by collecting signatures personally (see the conversation at 1:10).

3. The context of each selected conversation is not provided, so we have no assurance that they're comparable beyond Horowitz' word.

4. Given the research question it is both allowable and necessary for Horowitz to clearly explain what the first amendment is in a way that does not impact the results (yes, even for Yale students).

Horowitz could be forgiven for injecting social bias into the conversations since that's technically part of the experiment, but he did not ever show himself fully explaining the first amendment to anyone and didn't seem to be controlling the method for injecting social bias. He varied his case extremely widely between 1:15-1:37 and may have misled subjects as to his petition's purpose in the process.

So what we're left with is a presentation of a survey with apparently non-random sampling, evidenced confounding surveyor effects, uncontrolled and deliberate social biasing, no evidence that the question was fully explained to subjects prior to collecting answers, and potentially misleading explanations of purpose. Think about that design.

Now, something else that's important to bear in mind is that Horowitz is a film activist who has openly stated that his inspirational figure was Michael Moore. It is also worthy of mention that Horowitz is a contributor to Fox News, not merely someone Fox News is reporting on. This video is actually one among many installments Horowitz has submitted to Fox, presumably for pay. That puts the data collection methods, presentation of results, and purpose of the work into much needed context.


I'm not surprised about this being the case. I was skeptical of the experiment's validity the moment I saw Fox News as the OP's source.


Well Fox news job is to make people more ill informed this was what Roger Ailes wanted back in the day when he was part of the Nixon White House staff with his GOP TV, a counter narrative to the main stream media to miss inform the public about what was happening in their government. So when Rupert came to him with the idea of setting up a conservative news network Roger just dusted off his GOP TV idea and ran with it. And now we have studies like these. Also it doesn't surprise me one of Fox news hit men running around doing fake studies like this at all. Nope if more Americans turned off fox news they would be better informed in their day to day life.

Fox news makes you stupid.
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/study-watching-fox-news-actually-makes-you-less-informed-20120524

GOP TV
http://gawker.com/5814150/roger-ailes-secret-nixon-era-blueprint-for-fox-news

Fox news not impartial and not news making America less informed one viewer at a time.

If they claim to be about freedom don't trust them, if they claim to be about religion don't trust them. If they simply say things that can be backed up by actual evidence and proof well then you can trust them but verify it yourself. History people these scum leave a trail like any banana slug.



Is this a joke? You source Rollingstone and Gawker while you say Fox is biased and impartial. Uhm...what?


As for knowing the first amendment, NO excuses. They are going to Yale.

But yes, spinning a video like this is very easy, no matter what political point you are getting across. Just remember to keep that in mind, no matter if it supports what you believe or not. That's kinda important and many people seem to forget that.
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Posted 12/23/15

SatoMadoka wrote:


gvblackmoon wrote:


GrandmasterCoolio wrote:


BlueOni wrote:

Here's a direct link to the video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJVZa9_Ha5c

The thing to bear in mind is that this was actually a data collection exercise comparable to surveying. Some things I notice are that:

1. The conversations Horowitz points to seem to be primarily taking place at one location at one particular time of day.

2. Horowitz did not ensure that he did not impact the results by collecting signatures personally (see the conversation at 1:10).

3. The context of each selected conversation is not provided, so we have no assurance that they're comparable beyond Horowitz' word.

4. Given the research question it is both allowable and necessary for Horowitz to clearly explain what the first amendment is in a way that does not impact the results (yes, even for Yale students).

Horowitz could be forgiven for injecting social bias into the conversations since that's technically part of the experiment, but he did not ever show himself fully explaining the first amendment to anyone and didn't seem to be controlling the method for injecting social bias. He varied his case extremely widely between 1:15-1:37 and may have misled subjects as to his petition's purpose in the process.

So what we're left with is a presentation of a survey with apparently non-random sampling, evidenced confounding surveyor effects, uncontrolled and deliberate social biasing, no evidence that the question was fully explained to subjects prior to collecting answers, and potentially misleading explanations of purpose. Think about that design.

Now, something else that's important to bear in mind is that Horowitz is a film activist who has openly stated that his inspirational figure was Michael Moore. It is also worthy of mention that Horowitz is a contributor to Fox News, not merely someone Fox News is reporting on. This video is actually one among many installments Horowitz has submitted to Fox, presumably for pay. That puts the data collection methods, presentation of results, and purpose of the work into much needed context.


I'm not surprised about this being the case. I was skeptical of the experiment's validity the moment I saw Fox News as the OP's source.


Well Fox news job is to make people more ill informed this was what Roger Ailes wanted back in the day when he was part of the Nixon White House staff with his GOP TV, a counter narrative to the main stream media to miss inform the public about what was happening in their government. So when Rupert came to him with the idea of setting up a conservative news network Roger just dusted off his GOP TV idea and ran with it. And now we have studies like these. Also it doesn't surprise me one of Fox news hit men running around doing fake studies like this at all. Nope if more Americans turned off fox news they would be better informed in their day to day life.

Fox news makes you stupid.
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/study-watching-fox-news-actually-makes-you-less-informed-20120524

GOP TV
http://gawker.com/5814150/roger-ailes-secret-nixon-era-blueprint-for-fox-news

Fox news not impartial and not news making America less informed one viewer at a time.

If they claim to be about freedom don't trust them, if they claim to be about religion don't trust them. If they simply say things that can be backed up by actual evidence and proof well then you can trust them but verify it yourself. History people these scum leave a trail like any banana slug.



Is this a joke? You source Rollingstone and Gawker while you say Fox is biased and impartial. Uhm...what?


As for knowing the first amendment, NO excuses. They are going to Yale.

But yes, spinning a video like this is very easy, no matter what political point you are getting across. Just remember to keep that in mind, no matter if it supports what you believe or not. That's kinda important and many people seem to forget that.


Not a joke Rollingstone is a valid news source since they actually do research and are willing to admit when they screw up. As for the Gawker guess what it is valid for this as well since that is that actually documentation. If you don't trust the sources actually validate it yourself it isn't hard google Roger Ailes GOP TV and you can also google the study for Fox news makes people stupid. Fox news is a less valid new source then either of those in this case since they are more off to lie.

Washington post on the subject of roger and GOP TV
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/blogpost/post/richard-nixon-and-roger-ailes-1970s-plan-to-put-the-gop-on-tv/2011/07/01/AG1W7XtH_blog.html
Politico on the same subject
http://www.politico.com/blogs/onmedia/0611/Roger_Ailess_early_ideas_for_the_GOP_on_TV_news.html
Fox news makes you sutpid
http://www.businessinsider.com/extended-exposure-to-fox-news-may-be-detrimental-to-your-intelligence-2010-12
The actual study
http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/articles/brunitedstatescanadara/671.php?nid=&id=&pnt=671&lb=
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Posted 12/23/15
People will sign a petition (especially when its on clipboard) without questioning/reading about it.

Don't get me started when it comes to fund-raising. Alternative break my ass.
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Posted 12/23/15
This has to be satire mistaken for the real thing; I refuse to believe that anyone who attends Yale University (one of the most prestigious Universities in the USA) would be stupid enough to willingly sign over their right to free speech.

Oh wait...
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28 / M / USA! USA! USA!
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Posted 12/24/15

BlueOni wrote:


maxgale wrote:

You assume Horowitz is making claims about the entire student population of Yale, versus the actual claim he is making that these attitudes merely exist and cannot be said to be boogeymen created by those opposed to the Left, and that since they can be found at one of the most prestigious institutions for higher learning that it should call into question just what they are learning (or not).


If you legitimately found people who supported public flogging for shoplifting or some other minor offense at the firm, but also were willing to show that some of those who claimed so did so out of the purpose of getting a laugh, then I would find no problem if you were to go on to claim, "It's kinda messed up that the people meant to ensure that our society remains civilised would advocate such brutality. Why is that, and how has that occurred?"


Except he very much did expand his claims to Yale's student body as a whole, and this is no more strongly punctuated than at the end of the video when he highlights just how many signatures he was able to obtain over the course of 60 minutes. That he introduces his short with an appeal to the Yale community's history and closes his short with a marching band behind a black screen and white text talking about the Yale community indicates that he was, in fact, talking about Yale as a community.




I think a distinction can be made between the student population of Yale and the community of Yale (the administrators, professors, and culture of the university), and that Horowitz is rightfully asking, "How did the administrators allow these students in, what are these professors teaching them, and what sort of culture might produce such views?"
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Posted 12/24/15
No way its ever going to happen. its our freedom, as if we have much anyways..
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Posted 12/24/15
Lets play Simon Says! Simon says repeal fist amendment. Yeah, no fee speech suckers! Im the Grinch that stole all your Chrismas`s, past future and present.
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