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Post Reply What was the most savage civilization in history?
Tantic 
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Posted 12/23/15 , edited 12/23/15

dragontackle wrote:


Markest1 wrote:

Caucasians, for them to be so civilized they were truly savages throughout history from Africa to the Americas and then their own civilizations they killed, raped, and wherever they touched down and that is why I seriously question the discovery and colonization of the Americas and Africa and the ancestors of my Black ass was chillin' over there until somebody had to be jive like damn.



Ranwolf wrote:

I am going to go with the general Caucasian population. No one else holds a candle to their cruelty and capacity for greed. I mean they tried to conquer the damn world through military might, economic might, and more horrific methods including crude biological warfare. They preformed genocide on the populations of the land mass known as North America, turned the peoples of Africa into a freaking trading commodity, forced Asian cultures like the Japanese to open up their borders.

I mean just look at the breadth of history savage doesn't even begin to describe what the Caucasian civilization has done in the past. Or is still doing really, after all they allow white supremacy groups like the KKK and Neo-Nazis to operate openly.


These pretty much sum it up.


I've personally never heard of the "Caucasian civilization" but I can tell you for sure savagery isn't something you can pin down to a race.
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Posted 12/23/15

megahobbit wrote:


Alright then help me then.


Sure thing.

First, as I said, translate Fraus Dolus to verify the information is accurate. Again it is. I use google translate for convenience, and because I don't feel like digging out an almost useless book on Latin that I actually have.

The second thing you can do is google Fraus Dolus as a person. Search for him. He was supposedly a professor who died in the 1950s... so there should be SOMETHING on him. There is not. The only thing you will find of his existence is a single quote in Goodreads, which is actually from the book Eaters of the Dead. That's because the man is a fabrication, just like the manuscript.

Then you can google exactly "Fraus Dolus" manuscript hoax. It takes some wading, but you'll find at least three other sources that verify this.

Failing all this.... or failing at believing the truth, you can always contact the library requesting the manuscript... that does not exist... and maybe you'll believe them.

I'm not going to do all that for you.

Kid, when you're wrong you're wrong. It doesn't become embarrassing until you defend nonsense until the end. Just shrug it off and go on.
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Posted 12/23/15

HolyDrumstick wrote:


megahobbit wrote:


Alright then help me then.


Sure thing.

First, as I said, translate Fraus Dolus to verify the information is accurate. Again it is. I use google translate for convenience, and because I don't feel like digging out an almost useless book on Latin that I actually have.

The second thing you can do is google Fraus Dolus as a person. Search for him. He was supposedly a professor who died in the 1950s... so there should be SOMETHING on him. There is not. The only thing you will find of his existence is a single quote in Goodreads, which is actually from the book Eaters of the Dead. That's because the man is a fabrication, just like the manuscript.

Then you can google exactly "Fraus Dolus" manuscript hoax. It takes some wading, but you'll find at least three other sources that verify this.

Failing all this.... or failing at believing the truth, you can always contact the library requesting the manuscript... that does not exist... and maybe you'll believe them.

I'm not going to do all that for you.

Kid, when you're wrong you're wrong. It doesn't become embarrassing until you defend nonsense until the end. Just shrug it off and go on.


Which proves only the translations of the nonexistent Fraus Dolus is a hoax not the actual manuscript or Ahmed.
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Posted 12/23/15

xxJing wrote:

I can make an argument against 19th and early 20th century Americans. The racists during those eras were extremely brutal.


I agree

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Turner


Mary Turner (1899 - 19 May 1918) was a nineteen-year-old black woman, lynched in Lowndes County, Georgia. Eight months pregnant, Turner and her child were murdered after she publicly denounced the unlawful extrajudicial killing of her husband, Hazel Turner, by a mob.





The mob then tied her ankles, hung her upside down from a tree, doused her in gasoline and motor oil and set her on fire.
While Turner was still alive, a member of the mob split her abdomen open with a knife. Her unborn child fell on the ground, where it gave a cry before it was stomped on and crushed. Finally, Turner's body was riddled with hundreds of bullets.


There is no doubt in my mind that some people would have no problem with killing Mexicans, Muslims, gays, atheists, and anyone who isn't a white Christian.
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Posted 12/23/15

megahobbit wrote:

Which proves only the translations of the nonexistent Fraus Dolus is a hoax not the actual manuscript or Ahmed.


Oh lord, kid. You really are being an idiot. The fact that you can't purchase the translated manuscript in its entirety is enough evidence that it does not exist. Hell, you can purchase things such as Le Grimoire du Pape Honorius.... fully translated.

You're seriously fighting a losing battle, man. Just email the library and ask.
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Posted 12/23/15

HolyDrumstick wrote:


megahobbit wrote:

Which proves only the translations of the nonexistent Fraus Dolus is a hoax not the actual manuscript or Ahmed.


Oh lord, kid. You really are being an idiot. The fact that you can't purchase the translated manuscript in its entirety is enough evidence that it does not exist. Hell, you can purchase things such as Le Grimoire du Pape Honorius.... fully translated.

You're seriously fighting a losing battle, man. Just email the library and ask.


Alright then. I will admit if this is a hoax it is probably among one of the best ive ever seen.
xxJing 
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Posted 12/23/15

Tantic wrote:


dragontackle wrote:


Markest1 wrote:

Caucasians, for them to be so civilized they were truly savages throughout history from Africa to the Americas and then their own civilizations they killed, raped, and wherever they touched down and that is why I seriously question the discovery and colonization of the Americas and Africa and the ancestors of my Black ass was chillin' over there until somebody had to be jive like damn.



Ranwolf wrote:

I am going to go with the general Caucasian population. No one else holds a candle to their cruelty and capacity for greed. I mean they tried to conquer the damn world through military might, economic might, and more horrific methods including crude biological warfare. They preformed genocide on the populations of the land mass known as North America, turned the peoples of Africa into a freaking trading commodity, forced Asian cultures like the Japanese to open up their borders.

I mean just look at the breadth of history savage doesn't even begin to describe what the Caucasian civilization has done in the past. Or is still doing really, after all they allow white supremacy groups like the KKK and Neo-Nazis to operate openly.


These pretty much sum it up.


I've personally never heard of the "Caucasian civilization" but I can tell you for sure savagery isn't something you can pin down to a race.


I think it's a matter of "Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely." Those who have no power have incentive to try to make friends with those who have power. Those who have power have incentive to try to keep those weaker than them eternally subdued.

Europe was the fastest to develop vastly superior arms technology, and thus it gave Europeans the ability to completely dominate most other areas of the world. As to why that happened, I think that can be primarily attributed to ancient Greece and Rome.
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Posted 12/23/15 , edited 12/23/15

megahobbit wrote:

Alright then. I will admit if this is a hoax it is probably among one of the best ive ever seen.


It was very successful.
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Posted 12/23/15 , edited 12/23/15

HolyDrumstick wrote:


megahobbit wrote:

Alright then. I will admit if this is a hoax it is probably among one of the best ive ever seen.


It was very successful.


Im doing further research right know and can say that this is very fucking weird. If I have fallen for a hoax which I may well have there seems to be alot of actual scholarly articles written about it. I will admit that after you insulted me I did go in a bit to bullheaded but this has certainly been a pretty fascinating thing to read about. Im kinda iffy on the hoax thing right know. Ill get back to you in a couple hours cause this is absolutely fascinating thanks for tipping me off to this.

The biggest tipoff that it is not a hoax right know is that Richard Frye published a translation of it.
http://www.amazon.com/Ibn-Fadlans-Journey-Russia-Tenth-Century/dp/1558763651/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top?ie=UTF8

All my research so far tips off Frye as someone who checks out having taught at Harvard.

If so then when Crichton published Eaters of the Dead there was no english translation out at the time.

Given Frye translation Im gonna guess it was probably not a hoax and Ahmed did exist but if so it was muddied up to shit by Crichtons book.
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Posted 12/23/15

40YearOldVirgin wrote:

All of them.
There was not one civilization that wasn't brutal.
Tortures were involved, mass raping, mass slavery, mass killing. No humanitarian laws, no equality.

That's why I'm surprised when people complain about the current world affairs, things were x100000 worse back then.


I'm in agreement.
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Posted 12/23/15

GotenLoooovesCorn wrote:

The Mayans go down as some of the most brutal, self-destructive humans to ever exist. It got so bad they ended up destroying themselves and disappearing without a trace. Which was a shame, since they were a fascinating civilization. I'd like to say the North Koreans as well, but honestly since hardly anyone can go inside its hard to say how it is for every person dwelling in there.


They didn't disappear without a trace. There's some people around who still have a Mayan connection through blood and language. Don't forget the Europeans officially declared a people dead when they had mixed with others or started to speak other languages. Studies are now beginning to revise their facts to account for this. Check out Guatemala, Belize, El Salvador and Honduras, oh and that's considered to be central America, South America starts at Columbia.
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Posted 12/23/15 , edited 12/23/15

megahobbit wrote:


Clearly, I may have been the one in the wrong. I apologize.

Interesting thing: There is also a Syrian TV show about Ibn Fadlan's journey, from 2007. I am now interested in watching that.
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Posted 12/23/15
The current civilization scores high for me.
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Posted 12/23/15

HolyDrumstick wrote:


megahobbit wrote:


Clearly, I may have been the one in the wrong. I apologize.

Interesting thing: There is also a Syrian TV show about Ibn Fadlan's journey, from 2007. I am now interested in watching that.


Yeah I was reading about that to. That seems fascinating.
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Posted 12/23/15

megahobbit wrote:

Yeah I was reading about that to. That seems fascinating.




What truly interests and confuses me is: Why would Michael Crichton fabricate a false translator for a text that was already translated by Frye?

My guess is that Crichton altered the text to suit the needs of his story... I'd be interested in comparing the two versions. But... it seems that Ibn Fadlan did exist.
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