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Post Reply NYC fines employers $250,000 for getting someone's "gender" wrong
Posted 12/25/15

GrandmasterCoolio wrote:

While I do think referring to them with their preferred pronoun is the polite and decent thing to do, I don't think this is an area the law should step into it. The government shouldn't be fining people over such trivial matters.


I don't think it's trivial when it done purposely to hurt someone's feelings. Although let's be fair, knowing someone willl get offended is what leads to such an act in the first place.
Posted 12/25/15
However, this does raise an interesting debate. Should pronouns be based off what the person wants it to be, or what is? Should it be based on their mental state of mind or physical attributes? Hmmm....
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Posted 12/25/15 , edited 1/2/16

PeripheralVisionary wrote:

It reminds me of a case where I was referred to Chinese in my youth repeatedly even though I was of Vietnamese national origin and it pissed me off greatly. I do think such cases are harassment in itself. However, if you refuse to call someone by say their given name or knowingly use things that would trigger them, that's just being an asshole.


You know when the Mongols invaded China the remaining Chinese loyalists and government fled to the South of China in a mass migration. They fought off the Mongols in the swamps and formed an Empire down there. So technically you are part Chinese :P

Well what is wrong with the Chinese? Are you saying that being Chinese is a bad thing? Seems to me like your doing a bunch of microagressions against the Chinese.

I get called a Jew all the time and eventually I just stopped opposing it and started having fun calling myself a Jew. Now I've accepted it as my nickname and it is a lot of fun.
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Posted 12/25/15

PeripheralVisionary wrote:

I don't think it's trivial when it done purposely to hurt someone's feelings. Although let's be fair, knowing someone willl get offended is what leads to such an act in the first place.


Getting your feelings hurt a little won't kill you. It's nothing to go to court over.
Posted 12/25/15 , edited 1/2/16

Rujikin wrote:

You know when the Mongols invaded China the remaining Chinese loyalists and government fled to the South of China in a mass migration. They fought off the Mongols in the swamps and formed an Empire down there. So technically you are part Chinese :P

Well what is wrong with the Chinese? Are you saying that being Chinese is a bad thing? Seems to me like your doing a bunch of microagressions against the Chinese.

I get called a Jew all the time and eventually I just stopped opposing it and started having fun calling myself a Jew. Now I've accepted it as my nickname and it is a lot of fun.

And technically we're all descend from one continent. Was it Africa? Although I do suppose it is a case where I do intentionally get offended by it, hmmm....
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Posted 12/25/15 , edited 1/2/16

Rujikin wrote:

I bet this law isn't to last the first lawsuit in the courts thankfully. It is so blatantly against the first amendment.


Correct. This law isn't even valid, the constitution clearly said that "any state or federal law to the contrary; not withstanding"

All people have to do is invoke the constitution in a court case and this law will fall apart if the guy or lawyer knows two shits about the constitution. This is one step to censoring.

Hasn't anyone ever heard "those who trade freedom for security deserves neither and loses both"?



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Posted 12/25/15

PeripheralVisionary wrote:

And technically we're all descend from one continent. Was it Africa?


Mhm. It was Africa.
Posted 12/25/15

GrandmasterCoolio wrote:


PeripheralVisionary wrote:

I don't think it's trivial when it done purposely to hurt someone's feelings. Although let's be fair, knowing someone willl get offended is what leads to such an act in the first place.


Getting your feelings hurt a little won't kill you. It's nothing to go to court over.


Take this for example. My sisters knowingly referred to me as a female, despite my protests. Now I believe we shouldn't get into family matters, but what if a coworker did that to a male worker who identified as male? Would that not be harassment? Gender policing usually occurs as a form of bullying. At the very least I believe it should be an offense one could get terminated for if done maliciously and repeatedly.
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Posted 12/25/15

PeripheralVisionary wrote:


GrandmasterCoolio wrote:

While I do think referring to them with their preferred pronoun is the polite and decent thing to do, I don't think this is an area the law should step into it. The government shouldn't be fining people over such trivial matters.


I don't think it's trivial when it done purposely to hurt someone's feelings. Although let's be fair, knowing someone willl get offended is what leads to such an act in the first place.

This law hurts my feelings! It should be repealed because it's triggering me! It was done on purpose to anger me! Ban it now!


PeripheralVisionary wrote:

However, this does raise an interesting debate. Should pronouns be based off what the person wants it to be, or what is? Should it be based on their mental state of mind or physical attributes? Hmmm....


Whatever your DNA decided to create and make functional is what you are male or female. In the rare case where you have someone who was born with a full set of both fully functioning sex organs capable of reproducing then they can be trans, however stitching other people's organs onto yourself doesn't make you trans just makes you frankenstein.
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Posted 12/25/15

PeripheralVisionary wrote:]

It reminds me of a case where I was referred to Chinese in my youth repeatedly even though I was of Vietnamese national origin and it pissed me off greatly. I do think such cases are harassment in itself. However, if you refuse to call someone by say their given name or knowingly use things that would trigger them, that's just being an asshole.

That's a bad analogy here. In that case you are referring to someone refusing to call someone what they are (called).
A better analogy would be to call someone by their real name when they clearly prefer their nickname.


PeripheralVisionary wrote:

I don't think it's trivial when it done purposely to hurt someone's feelings. Although let's be fair, knowing someone willl get offended is what leads to such an act in the first place.

Or they're just being realistic.
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Posted 12/25/15

PeripheralVisionary wrote:


And technically we're all descend from one continent. Was it Africa? Although I do suppose it is a case where I do intentionally get offended by it, hmmm....

And I am fine being 1/septrillionth African if it is actually the truth.


PeripheralVisionary wrote:


GrandmasterCoolio wrote:


PeripheralVisionary wrote:

I don't think it's trivial when it done purposely to hurt someone's feelings. Although let's be fair, knowing someone willl get offended is what leads to such an act in the first place.


Getting your feelings hurt a little won't kill you. It's nothing to go to court over.


Take this for example. My sisters knowingly referred to me as a female, despite my protests. Now I believe we shouldn't get into family matters, but what if a coworker did that to a male worker who identified as male? Would that not be harassment? Gender policing usually occurs as a form of bullying. At the very least I believe it should be an offense one could get terminated for if done maliciously and repeatedly.

Well are you female? Do you have a vagina, ovaries, and the works?

Nope the truth is not harassment. You can call someone a slut in court if they are infact a slut or a liar if you can prove they are a liar.
Posted 12/25/15

XxDarkSasuxX wrote:


PeripheralVisionary wrote:]

It reminds me of a case where I was referred to Chinese in my youth repeatedly even though I was of Vietnamese national origin and it pissed me off greatly. I do think such cases are harassment in itself. However, if you refuse to call someone by say their given name or knowingly use things that would trigger them, that's just being an asshole.

That's a bad analogy here. In that case you are referring to someone refusing to call someone what they are (called).
A better analogy would be to call someone by their real name when they clearly prefer their nickname.


PeripheralVisionary wrote:

I don't think it's trivial when it done purposely to hurt someone's feelings. Although let's be fair, knowing someone willl get offended is what leads to such an act in the first place.

Or they're just being realistic.


I don't see how it is a bad analogy.
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Posted 12/25/15

PeripheralVisionary wrote:


It reminds me of a case where I was referred to Chinese in my youth repeatedly even though I was of Vietnamese national origin and it pissed me off greatly. I do think such cases are harassment in itself. However, if you refuse to call someone by say their given name or knowingly use things that would trigger them, that's just being an asshole.


You could say it is being an asshole, but unless they are following them around calling them the non-preferred name to piss them off, then it isn't harassment. I would say that supporting someones delusion is harmful as well, though. I see no issue with calling someone by their preferred name. People have preferred names for all sorts of reasons. But, I wouldn't be using someones preferred gender, just their actual gender. However, I can't even imagine when a situation would come up that I would be referring to their gender at all, especially if it was a sore issue for them.
Posted 12/25/15

ishe5555 wrote:


PeripheralVisionary wrote:


It reminds me of a case where I was referred to Chinese in my youth repeatedly even though I was of Vietnamese national origin and it pissed me off greatly. I do think such cases are harassment in itself. However, if you refuse to call someone by say their given name or knowingly use things that would trigger them, that's just being an asshole.


You could say it is being an asshole, but unless they are following them around calling them the non-preferred name to piss them off, then it isn't harassment. I would say that supporting someones delusion is harmful as well, though. I see no issue with calling someone by their preferred name. People have preferred names for all sorts of reasons. But, I wouldn't be using someones preferred gender, just their actual gender. However, I can't even imagine when a situation would come up that I would be referring to their gender at all, especially if it was a sore issue for them.


Gender policing and enforcing gender norms has shown to be consistently harmful, aren't they? Even more so in a domestic setting such as home.
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Posted 12/25/15 , edited 12/25/15

PeripheralVisionary wrote:

I don't see how it is a bad analogy.


That's a bad analogy here. In that case you are referring to someone refusing to call someone what they are (called).
However, if you refuse to call someone by say their given name
Their given name is the name they were attributed at birth.

However, if you refuse to call someone by their actual gender


A better analogy would be to call someone by their real name when they clearly prefer their nickname.

. . . to call someone by their gender from birth when they clearly prefer their gender identity
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