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Post Reply NYC fines employers $250,000 for getting someone's "gender" wrong
Posted 12/25/15

XxDarkSasuxX wrote:


PeripheralVisionary wrote:

I don't see how it is a bad analogy.


That's a bad analogy here. In that case you are referring to someone refusing to call someone what they are (called).
However, if you refuse to call someone by say their given name
Their given name is the name they were attributed at birth.

However, if you refuse to call someone by their actual gender


A better analogy would be to call someone by their real name when they clearly prefer their nickname.

. . . to call someone by their gender from birth when they clearly prefer their gender identity


You're clearly refusing to call someone by their preferred gender, based on physical attributes, despite protests not to. The real kicker is, is gender identity determine by birth sex or gender? I believe it is determined by the gender identity you choose.
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Posted 12/25/15
Well it didn't take much for this thread to light up.
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Posted 12/25/15 , edited 12/25/15

PeripheralVisionary wrote:

Take this for example. My sisters knowingly referred to me as a female, despite my protests. Now I believe we shouldn't get into family matters, but what if a coworker did that to a male worker who identified as male? Would that not be harassment? Gender policing usually occurs as a form of bullying. At the very least I believe it should be an offense one could get terminated for if done maliciously and repeatedly.


We're talking about adults here PV. I won't claim to know what the transgender community has to go through or endure. I won't claim that I know the suffering and plights they endure. I don't and I couldn't even begin to imagine what it's like to feel the way they do. However, if you can't even handle someone being rude to you without having to fall back on legal action, how can you be expected to endure the hardships of life? The world's a cruel, cruel place. People are cruel, annoying, and downright infuriating. The sooner one accepts that, the better.

If a person has to resort to legal action because someone called them a she instead of a he, how can we expect them to be a functioning member of society? How can they be expected to work a job or pay the bills if they have to run crying to big brother for help over someone referring to them with a label not to their liking?

I understand that the law was made in good intention, but I simply don't think that this is something that the government should be getting involved with.
Posted 12/25/15

descloud wrote:

Well it didn't take much for this thread to light up.


In terms of replies I got? Yes, but I don't think Rujikin or you were bad at all. You got to learn to question your views.
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Posted 12/25/15

PeripheralVisionary wrote:

I think the fine is a bit high, but knowingly addressing someone by their gender they prefer not to be addressed as needs some repercussions in my opinion. I mean seriously, is it that hard to address someone by their preferred gender identity? In my opinion, such gender policing is a type of harassment.



Also, site seems a bit biased, whatnot with the pro life ad at the bottom. Another thing to be aware of is the fine is likely to be much lower than the maximum.


^
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Posted 12/25/15
Good, no one wants you here
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Posted 12/25/15
From what I've heard, most people don't typically misgender someone unless they are still transitioning or they know that the person is transgender. It's more than just getting it wrong it's refusing to use the correct name. If it is intentional and consistent, it creates a hostile work environment which employers can be liable for. So no, the first amendment doesn't trump everything.

GrandmasterCoolio wrote:

While I do think referring to them with their preferred pronoun is the polite and decent thing to do, I don't think this is an area the law should step into it. The government shouldn't be fining people over such trivial matters.
For you it might be trivial, because you aren't transgender
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Posted 12/25/15

PeripheralVisionary wrote:

Gender policing and enforcing gender norms has shown to be consistently harmful, aren't they? Even more so in a domestic setting such as home.


You're assuming that because someone is particular gender that they should be force to follow gender norms. Just because someone is male doesn't mean they have to do typical male things, but if they don't then it doesn't mean they aren't male. One does not need to be male to be masculine or female to be feminine. I have no desire to box people into asinine gender boxes where they are "male but functioning as partial female that associates as male most of the time except when they associate as female", just because they like some things or like to do some things that are not thought by society to be normal for their gender. If they like those things, that is their prerogative.
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Posted 12/25/15 , edited 12/25/15

PeripheralVisionary wrote:


descloud wrote:

Well it didn't take much for this thread to light up.


In terms of replies I got? Yes, but I don't think Rujikin or you were bad at all. You got to learn to question your views.


No I was really just referring to the thread :p. But why must I question my views? If someone is born with XY chromosomes they are a male to the very last cell. No matter how much they change their appearance or voice. That's an irrefutable fact.
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Posted 12/25/15 , edited 12/25/15

PeripheralVisionary wrote:

You're clearly refusing to call someone by their preferred gender, based on physical attributes, despite protests not to. The real kicker is, is gender identity determine by birth sex or gender? I believe it is determined by the gender identity you choose.

Then that is your belief. Also, let me be clear that I respect both sides of the transgender movement that society currently seems to be going through although Im not going to sit here and walk on eggshells to be the devils advocate. If that's all there to be said then that's it for me involving this quote pyramid at least.
Posted 12/25/15

GrandmasterCoolio wrote:


PeripheralVisionary wrote:

Take this for example. My sisters knowingly referred to me as a female, despite my protests. Now I believe we shouldn't get into family matters, but what if a coworker did that to a male worker who identified as male? Would that not be harassment? Gender policing usually occurs as a form of bullying. At the very least I believe it should be an offense one could get terminated for if done maliciously and repeatedly.


We're talking about adults here PV. I won't claim to know what the transgender community has to go through or endure. I won't claim that I know the suffering and plights they endure. I don't and I couldn't even begin to imagine what it's like to feel the way they do. However, if you can't even handle someone being rude to you without having to fall back on legal action, how can you be expected to endure the hardships of life? The world's a cruel, cruel place. People are cruel, annoying, and downright infuriating. The sooner one accepts that, the better.

If a person has to resort to legal action because someone called them a she instead of a he, how can we expect them to be a functioning member of society? How can they be expected to work a job or pay the bills if they have to run crying to big brother for help over someone referring to them with a label not to their liking?

I understand that the law was made in good intention, but I simply don't think that this is something that the government should be getting involved with.

I think consistent and malicious harassment of any type is inappropriate for the work place and if they do not handle it then I believe the person has a right to legal action.
Posted 12/25/15

descloud wrote:


PeripheralVisionary wrote:


descloud wrote:

Well it didn't take much for this thread to light up.


In terms of replies I got? Yes, but I don't think Rujikin or you were bad at all. You got to learn to question your views.


No I was really just referring to the thread :p. But why must I question my views? If someone is born with XY chromosomes they are a male to the very last cell. No matter how much they change their appearance or voice. That's an irrefutable fact.


I was referring to everyone. You know, like Uncle Sam.
Posted 12/25/15

ishe5555 wrote:


PeripheralVisionary wrote:

Gender policing and enforcing gender norms has shown to be consistently harmful, aren't they? Even more so in a domestic setting such as home.


You're assuming that because someone is particular gender that they should be force to follow gender norms. Just because someone is male doesn't mean they have to do typical male things, but if they don't then it doesn't mean they aren't male. One does not need to be male to be masculine or female to be feminine. I have no desire to box people into asinine gender boxes where they are "male but functioning as partial female that associates as male most of the time except when they associate as female", just because they like some things or like to do some things that are not thought by society to be normal for their gender. If they like those things, that is their prerogative.


But that's exactly what you're doing if you knowingly and maliciously use the wrong pronoun. It basically is saying what you are is an abomination, and it must be stopped.
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Posted 12/25/15 , edited 1/2/16

PeripheralVisionary wrote:

I was referring to everyone. You know, like Uncle Sam.


The way you worded it sounds it just meant me :p
Posted 12/25/15 , edited 1/2/16

descloud wrote:

The way you worded it sounds it just meant me :p


I'm sorry, I should've chosen the correct pronoun.


HOW DOES IT FEEL NOW?!

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