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Post Reply Table-top Min Maxing
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Posted 12/28/15
Seriously getting more and more frustrated. I'm trying, really really trying, to play nice and play the way the GM and others want.

So... I took a very RP and world-building heavy direction, and all I get is awkward silence. I just proposed the idea.

I'm so confused. You don't want to play hard and fast, but when I try to go the RP heavy route that's wrong, too?

I just want everyone to have a good time. Why is that so hard? haha
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Posted 12/28/15 , edited 12/28/15

HolyDrumstick wrote:

I have a question - How is min maxing viewed in table-top RPGs?

Apparently, it seems to be frowned upon, from the limited experience I have.

I was accused of doing so a couple times by my GM. The second time was because I said I wasn't going to purchase things with XP that I wasn't going to use, after he told me it wasn't going to work the way I interpreted. I asked in advance, because I know things get shifted and changed, due to it being a homebrew. (He also seems oddly bothered by being asked too many questions, for someone who is supposed to be GMing.... especially a homebrew of all things.)

I got the response "Gasp, you mean real people don't have skills that are only useful!"

However, I disagree about this. At the end of the day, it is a game. Sure, I will, and HAVE bought things with XP that I cannot/will not use in combat, or things I simply want to have for the sake of it (like a useless craft specialty - lets say basket -weaving).... but I'm not going to spend XP on something I will never use.... in or out of combat.

Does that make me a bad table-top RPG player?


We had words.

He says its due to a player in another game min maxing, but I keep getting the shitty end of it.


Your DM should probably chill the fuck out but on the other hand if your focusing more on statistics and min maxing your character rather than role playing and interacting with the other players you are kinda doing it wrong. Approaching the game from a statistical perspective were you care more about how well your character fights rather than his personality is probably a bad idea. That being said I dont know how your DM plays so I cant really judge.
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Posted 12/28/15

HolyDrumstick wrote:

Seriously getting more and more frustrated. I'm trying, really really trying, to play nice and play the way the GM and others want.

So... I took a very RP and world-building heavy direction, and all I get is awkward silence. I just proposed the idea.

I'm so confused. You don't want to play hard and fast, but when I try to go the RP heavy route that's wrong, too?

I just want everyone to have a good time. Why is that so hard? haha


So is it just you who is the outsider or are the other players having this problem?
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Posted 12/29/15

megahobbit wrote:


HolyDrumstick wrote:

Seriously getting more and more frustrated. I'm trying, really really trying, to play nice and play the way the GM and others want.

So... I took a very RP and world-building heavy direction, and all I get is awkward silence. I just proposed the idea.

I'm so confused. You don't want to play hard and fast, but when I try to go the RP heavy route that's wrong, too?

I just want everyone to have a good time. Why is that so hard? haha


So is it just you who is the outsider or are the other players having this problem?


I'm kind of running into the most problems. But, again, that is for multiple reasons. For one, all the other regular players are basically the same class, so follow the same rules. If one asks a question, it is answered for all. I follow a different path. I'm also the only melee, so... because f all the buffs from the other players, and me going toe to toe with stuff, I look a whole lot more OP than I actually am.
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Posted 12/29/15
Damn. Your GM must have gotten really burned by a real obnoxious powergamer at some point. It also sounds like he's one of those types that has less of a problem with what are actual game breaking mechanics and more with what MIGHT be game breaking mechanics. I can see the point of view because many power gamers, especially the ones who will not shift their playstyle regardless of the desires of the group, tend to basically "hide" their power gaming in plain site by setting their character up in a way that looks innocent but hides some kind of broken combo. He might just be overcompensating due to paranoia.

I've dealt with some real obnoxious player archetypes in my time and you sound nothing like a min-maxer, at least of the disruptive type to be sure, from what you describe. Try asking for more specifics about the "other person" from your GM and see if you can see if there are any similarities between you and him that might be raising a red flag, so maybe you can figure out what the real issue is and maybe how you can work through it.

Also don't discount the potential that perhaps you might not be compatible as gamers at the same table. I have several friends and acquaintances in the past that I have gamed with that I just tend to avoid gaming with because what we want from the experience are fundamentally different things. Doesn't mean you can't be friends but maybe gaming together isn't the best idea. I'd still give it a try though, maybe after a little time playing together the tensions will ease and he'll trust you a bit more, and maybe you'll get a better idea of what riles him up as a GM, which is important because while being a GM can be fun and rewarding, it can often be thankless and a lot more work than anybody else has at the table.
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Posted 12/29/15 , edited 12/29/15

AsahinaInu wrote:

Damn. Your GM must have gotten really burned by a real obnoxious powergamer at some point. It also sounds like he's one of those types that has less of a problem with what are actual game breaking mechanics and more with what MIGHT be game breaking mechanics. I can see the point of view because many power gamers, especially the ones who will not shift their playstyle regardless of the desires of the group, tend to basically "hide" their power gaming in plain site by setting their character up in a way that looks innocent but hides some kind of broken combo. He might just be overcompensating due to paranoia.

I've dealt with some real obnoxious player archetypes in my time and you sound nothing like a min-maxer, at least of the disruptive type to be sure, from what you describe. Try asking for more specifics about the "other person" from your GM and see if you can see if there are any similarities between you and him that might be raising a red flag, so maybe you can figure out what the real issue is and maybe how you can work through it.

Also don't discount the potential that perhaps you might not be compatible as gamers at the same table. I have several friends and acquaintances in the past that I have gamed with that I just tend to avoid gaming with because what we want from the experience are fundamentally different things. Doesn't mean you can't be friends but maybe gaming together isn't the best idea. I'd still give it a try though, maybe after a little time playing together the tensions will ease and he'll trust you a bit more, and maybe you'll get a better idea of what riles him up as a GM, which is important because while being a GM can be fun and rewarding, it can often be thankless and a lot more work than anybody else has at the table.


I understand that being a GM can be thankless. I try to make things as easy as possible on him, and thank him regularly.

I've taken the direct approach, and just basically told him how I felt. That I feel like I'm trying to come up with a compromise that will satisfy both of us and leave neither annoyed. Also, I addressed that I'm high energy and involved in it more than most people, which I understand can be annoying, explaining that this was my personality and I can't change it, but that I understand it can be a bit annoying.

So far, since I have said these things, he has responded with nothing. I feel like he's waiting for me to get frustrated with silence, so that I make an ass out of myself and he has a reason to kick me.

Maybe the real problem is that he doesn't like my personality. I personally have no issues with his, except for the game problems. Other than what I have done, there is nothing else I can do.

I genuinely want everyone to have fun, and if that means I walk away, then so be it. However, he's going to have to talk frankly and directly to make that happen. I only respond to directness, mostly due to being unable to read people.

I just hope it all works out.

Either way, the ball is in his hands.
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Posted 12/29/15

HolyDrumstick wrote:


megahobbit wrote:


HolyDrumstick wrote:

Seriously getting more and more frustrated. I'm trying, really really trying, to play nice and play the way the GM and others want.

So... I took a very RP and world-building heavy direction, and all I get is awkward silence. I just proposed the idea.

I'm so confused. You don't want to play hard and fast, but when I try to go the RP heavy route that's wrong, too?

I just want everyone to have a good time. Why is that so hard? haha


So is it just you who is the outsider or are the other players having this problem?


I'm kind of running into the most problems. But, again, that is for multiple reasons. For one, all the other regular players are basically the same class, so follow the same rules. If one asks a question, it is answered for all. I follow a different path. I'm also the only melee, so... because f all the buffs from the other players, and me going toe to toe with stuff, I look a whole lot more OP than I actually am.


So your basically the one outlier in the party class wise?
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Posted 12/29/15

HolyDrumstick wrote:


AsahinaInu wrote:

Damn. Your GM must have gotten really burned by a real obnoxious powergamer at some point. It also sounds like he's one of those types that has less of a problem with what are actual game breaking mechanics and more with what MIGHT be game breaking mechanics. I can see the point of view because many power gamers, especially the ones who will not shift their playstyle regardless of the desires of the group, tend to basically "hide" their power gaming in plain site by setting their character up in a way that looks innocent but hides some kind of broken combo. He might just be overcompensating due to paranoia.

I've dealt with some real obnoxious player archetypes in my time and you sound nothing like a min-maxer, at least of the disruptive type to be sure, from what you describe. Try asking for more specifics about the "other person" from your GM and see if you can see if there are any similarities between you and him that might be raising a red flag, so maybe you can figure out what the real issue is and maybe how you can work through it.

Also don't discount the potential that perhaps you might not be compatible as gamers at the same table. I have several friends and acquaintances in the past that I have gamed with that I just tend to avoid gaming with because what we want from the experience are fundamentally different things. Doesn't mean you can't be friends but maybe gaming together isn't the best idea. I'd still give it a try though, maybe after a little time playing together the tensions will ease and he'll trust you a bit more, and maybe you'll get a better idea of what riles him up as a GM, which is important because while being a GM can be fun and rewarding, it can often be thankless and a lot more work than anybody else has at the table.


I understand that being a GM can be thankless. I try to make things as easy as possible on him, and thank him regularly.

I've taken the direct approach, and just basically told him how I felt. That I feel like I'm trying to come up with a compromise that will satisfy both of us and leave neither annoyed. Also, I addressed that I'm high energy and involved in it more than most people, which I understand can be annoying, explaining that this was my personality and I can't change it, but that I understand it can be a bit annoying.

So far, since I have said these things, he has responded with nothing. I feel like he's waiting for me to get frustrated with silence, so that I make an ass out of myself and he has a reason to kick me.

Maybe the real problem is that he doesn't like my personality. I personally have no issues with his, except for the game problems. Other than what I have done, there is nothing else I can do.

I genuinely want everyone to have fun, and if that means I walk away, then so be it. However, he's going to have to talk frankly and directly to make that happen. I only respond to directness, mostly due to being unable to read people.

I just hope it all works out.

Either way, the ball is in his hands.


Well if its your personality this just may not be the right group for you. Sometimes people arent just compatible when playing RPGs. Try your best to avoid being "that guy" but sometimes it just doesnt work out.
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Posted 12/29/15

megahobbit wrote:


HolyDrumstick wrote:


megahobbit wrote:


HolyDrumstick wrote:

Seriously getting more and more frustrated. I'm trying, really really trying, to play nice and play the way the GM and others want.

So... I took a very RP and world-building heavy direction, and all I get is awkward silence. I just proposed the idea.

I'm so confused. You don't want to play hard and fast, but when I try to go the RP heavy route that's wrong, too?

I just want everyone to have a good time. Why is that so hard? haha


So is it just you who is the outsider or are the other players having this problem?


I'm kind of running into the most problems. But, again, that is for multiple reasons. For one, all the other regular players are basically the same class, so follow the same rules. If one asks a question, it is answered for all. I follow a different path. I'm also the only melee, so... because f all the buffs from the other players, and me going toe to toe with stuff, I look a whole lot more OP than I actually am.


So your basically the one outlier in the party class wise?


Basically. But, the game was intended to be a mix from the beginning. That was HIS intentions. One melee quit after one session, and the other has been absent more than present for the sessions. So, I ended up being the default melee/tank. Everyone throws buffs on me, and I keep things busy, while they nuke it down. It looks bad, but I honestly couldn't do it without the buffs.
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Posted 12/29/15

HolyDrumstick wrote:

Basically. But, the game was intended to be a mix from the beginning. That was HIS intentions. One melee quit after one session, and the other has been absent more than present for the sessions. So, I ended up being the default melee/tank. Everyone throws buffs on me, and I keep things busy, while they nuke it down. It looks bad, but I honestly couldn't do it without the buffs.


Okay do you think this is a player problem or a game problem. Judging from your later posts about the GM he seems to dislike your personality. If thats your problem you may just not fit in with the group.

This thread has been pretty cool its been a long time since I have played a Tabletop RPG.
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Posted 12/29/15

megahobbit wrote:


Well if its your personality this just may not be the right group for you. Sometimes people arent just compatible when playing RPGs. Try your best to avoid being "that guy" but sometimes it just doesnt work out.


I can deal with that. The problem is that the GM would rather make shitty comments or remain silent than address issues frankly. And I'm the type to stick it out until he either does or kicks me for BS reasons.

Why? Because A.) I'm terrible at reading people, so I may be sensing issues, but I may be reading what those issues are incorrectly. B.) I'll be as polite as possible to the end, and when I walk away they can talk as much smack as they want about me, but I won't be an asshole. C.) I refuse to be pushed out by shitty, underhanded methods. If he wants me gone, he can at least say as much.
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Posted 12/29/15 , edited 12/29/15

megahobbit wrote:


HolyDrumstick wrote:

Basically. But, the game was intended to be a mix from the beginning. That was HIS intentions. One melee quit after one session, and the other has been absent more than present for the sessions. So, I ended up being the default melee/tank. Everyone throws buffs on me, and I keep things busy, while they nuke it down. It looks bad, but I honestly couldn't do it without the buffs.


Okay do you think this is a player problem or a game problem. Judging from your later posts about the GM he seems to dislike your personality. If thats your problem you may just not fit in with the group.

This thread has been pretty cool its been a long time since I have played a Tabletop RPG.


Honestly, I think the problems he perceives are game problems, not a player problem. I had 3 armor and was buffed by 2 others up to 11. That's not an issue with my character.

I do ask a lot of questions, but again, it is a homebrew mixing 4-6 books. He should expect questions. Also, I'm the only one playing my class, so I'm the only one who can ask questions about it. Others are mostly the same class, so if one person asks a question, it is answered for all of them.

And the sad part is, I've heard them argue with the GM mid-session about how to use their abilities. I've never argued once mid-session, and when I disagree I make sure to mention it out of session. In session, I just say "okay" and go about my business. So, if he has issues with me, they're not tied closely to reality.

EDIT: Actually one of those buffs were a potion, now that I'm thinking about it. Still not a character problem, though.
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Posted 12/29/15
Honestly, just venting at this point, because I'm very frustrated.
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Posted 12/29/15

HolyDrumstick wrote:


megahobbit wrote:


HolyDrumstick wrote:

Basically. But, the game was intended to be a mix from the beginning. That was HIS intentions. One melee quit after one session, and the other has been absent more than present for the sessions. So, I ended up being the default melee/tank. Everyone throws buffs on me, and I keep things busy, while they nuke it down. It looks bad, but I honestly couldn't do it without the buffs.


Okay do you think this is a player problem or a game problem. Judging from your later posts about the GM he seems to dislike your personality. If thats your problem you may just not fit in with the group.

This thread has been pretty cool its been a long time since I have played a Tabletop RPG.


Honestly, I think the problems he perceives are game problems, not a player problem. I had 3 armor and was buffed by 2 others up to 11. That's not an issue with my character.

I do ask a lot of questions, but again, it is a homebrew mixing 4-6 books. He should expect questions. Also, I'm the only one playing my class, so I'm the only one who can ask questions about it. Others are mostly the same class, so if one person asks a question, it is answered for all of them.

And the sad part is, I've heard them argue with the GM mid-session about how to use their abilities. I've never argued once mid-session, and when I disagree I make sure to mention it out of session. In session, I just say "okay" and go about my business. So, if he has issues with me, they're not tied closely to reality.

EDIT: Actually one of those buffs were a potion, now that I'm thinking about it. Still not a character problem, though.


Okay my guess is that if its a homebrew he created he probably just doesnt like people min-maxing a system he created. He probably feels someone is trying to game the rules he built.
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Posted 12/29/15

megahobbit wrote:

Okay my guess is that if its a homebrew he created he probably just doesnt like people min-maxing a system he created. He probably feels someone is trying to game the rules he built.


Sadly, it isn't me gaming anything. I'm just playing a character. I'm not the one who created +4 armor potions and +4 armor mage buffs. I was just sporting my 3-3 armor like a good boy. haha
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