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Post Reply Actual gun murder rates do not reflect loose gun laws.
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Posted 12/29/15
Just what it says, see for yourself:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States_by_state
I get that some people are afraid of guns, but really gun control has little to do with gun crime. Just review the numbers yourself. Keep in mind, Texas has open carry now, and California has among the strictest gun laws. California still has more gun murders.
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Posted 12/29/15
All the places I associate with bland middle class white people have the lost rate of gun murders lol.

Anyway as a firm believer in the right to own guns lets be real you cant say "oh look California has strict gun laws and there are still gun related murders!" and use that as justification that gun control doesn't work. Of course gun control works, its a question whether its right to tell lawful citizens they cant use them. Right next to cali Is arizona where we have some pretty lax gun control laws, all you have to do is buy a gun here and go to cali. Same goes for the rest of the united states.

People need to realize there are always going to be shit-bags that mis-use the freedoms we have. You cant start banning everything becuase a few people are POS's.
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Posted 12/29/15 , edited 12/29/15

Irishsushi wrote:

All the places I associate with bland middle class white people have the lost rate of gun murders lol.

Anyway as a firm believer in the right to own guns lets be real you cant say "oh look California has strict gun laws and there are still gun related murders!" and use that as justification that gun control doesn't work. Of course gun control works, its a question whether its right to tell lawful citizens they cant use them. Right next to cali Is arizona where we have some pretty lax gun control laws, all you have to do is buy a gun here and go to cali. Same goes for the rest of the united states.

People need to realize there are always going to be shit-bags that mis-use the freedoms we have. You cant start banning everything becuase a few people are POS's.


Could you prove that gun control works with statistics?

This video, courtesy of thepaladin101, would argue you cannot: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE.


I would challenge you to do so using only the states or the various countries. Whichever better suits you.
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Posted 12/29/15
ah my state's pretty high up on the list on murders well it isn't surprising considering it has one if not the highest rate of domestic violence in the country
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102 / M / Hicksville Ohio(n...
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Posted 12/29/15
i keep thinking of Chicago and all the problems they are having with gun violence. But its mostly gang bangers knocking each other off, so no big deal..
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Posted 12/29/15

HolyDrumstick wrote:


Irishsushi wrote:

All the places I associate with bland middle class white people have the lost rate of gun murders lol.

Anyway as a firm believer in the right to own guns lets be real you cant say "oh look California has strict gun laws and there are still gun related murders!" and use that as justification that gun control doesn't work. Of course gun control works, its a question whether its right to tell lawful citizens they cant use them. Right next to cali Is arizona where we have some pretty lax gun control laws, all you have to do is buy a gun here and go to cali. Same goes for the rest of the united states.

People need to realize there are always going to be shit-bags that mis-use the freedoms we have. You cant start banning everything becuase a few people are POS's.


Could you prove that gun control works with statistics?

This video, courtesy of thepaladin101, would argue you cannot: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE.


I would challenge you to do so using only the states or the various countries. Whichever better suits you. :)


I can. Look at Britain, Germany, or the Scandinavian Countries. Statistics don't lie according to you! They sure as hell can be manipulated by variables you are not accounting for ofc.
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Posted 12/29/15 , edited 12/29/15

Dark_Alma wrote:


HolyDrumstick wrote:


Irishsushi wrote:

All the places I associate with bland middle class white people have the lost rate of gun murders lol.

Anyway as a firm believer in the right to own guns lets be real you cant say "oh look California has strict gun laws and there are still gun related murders!" and use that as justification that gun control doesn't work. Of course gun control works, its a question whether its right to tell lawful citizens they cant use them. Right next to cali Is arizona where we have some pretty lax gun control laws, all you have to do is buy a gun here and go to cali. Same goes for the rest of the united states.

People need to realize there are always going to be shit-bags that mis-use the freedoms we have. You cant start banning everything becuase a few people are POS's.


Could you prove that gun control works with statistics?

This video, courtesy of thepaladin101, would argue you cannot: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE.


I would challenge you to do so using only the states or the various countries. Whichever better suits you. :)


I can. Look at Britain, Germany, or the Scandinavian Countries. Statistics don't lie according to you! They sure as hell can be manipulated by variables you are not accounting for ofc.


Sure, I can get behind that idea. However, the world average homicide rate is 7.6 per 100,000. The US is sitting pretty with half of the average, at 3.8. That's for the entire world. And supposedly we have crazy gun culture, or whatever. That's overall murder rate, also, because let's face it, if you want to kill someone, you are going to figure out how.

Switzerland is at .6, and everyone has a gun, pretty much.

The point isn't to find a correlation, and if it were, then yes it wouldn't be enough info. However, it is plenty of info to dismiss the correlation between Gun Control = Less murder.
Posted 12/29/15
I think what we need to keep in mind that the US is different from, say Japan. We have a much more diverse population, for one.
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Posted 12/29/15

PeripheralVisionary wrote:

I think what we need to keep in mind that the US is different from, say Japan. We have a much more diverse population, for one.


See, PV. I KNEW you could use your noodle! I'm so proud. So...fucking....proud.
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Posted 12/29/15

HolyDrumstick wrote:


Irishsushi wrote:

All the places I associate with bland middle class white people have the lost rate of gun murders lol.

Anyway as a firm believer in the right to own guns lets be real you cant say "oh look California has strict gun laws and there are still gun related murders!" and use that as justification that gun control doesn't work. Of course gun control works, its a question whether its right to tell lawful citizens they cant use them. Right next to cali Is arizona where we have some pretty lax gun control laws, all you have to do is buy a gun here and go to cali. Same goes for the rest of the united states.

People need to realize there are always going to be shit-bags that mis-use the freedoms we have. You cant start banning everything becuase a few people are POS's.


Could you prove that gun control works with statistics?

This video, courtesy of thepaladin101, would argue you cannot: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE.


I would challenge you to do so using only the states or the various countries. Whichever better suits you. :)


Australia done. they had a mass shooting banned guns and in 2013 had all but 35 gun-related homicides. Proof enough. Once again i'd like to say I am very much pro gun I own a gun and will probably own more in the future.

Now onto the video:
He points out that the US is 111 of nations involving gun-related homicide. Well that may be the case but of all the industrialized western nations the US is still at the top.

He also mentions Detroit and New Orleans having high murder rates. It doesnt matter that they have gun control if the state next to it doesn't. That seems counter-intuitive to what I am saying, but it is much easier to cross state lines than it is country borders. And what because those places are high you dont want to count them? well then dont count Honduras and Venezuela because those countries are like giant Detroit's.

Lol and that little bit about if the US had the same rate as Plano, Texas. Yeah of course if we choose the best stat we would rank pretty good. But did you notice the country ahead of us in that little blurb? Switzerland A country with pretty high gun control and almost no gun homicides, yet they own a shit ton of guns. You can have gun control and still let people have guns.

His closing statements I agree with its a mentality issue we all have to realize some people will abuse the system. People are doing this to themselves they would rather gloss over solutions just so they can live in there happy little world.

Gun control can work but it will take a number of other outside factors to help the situation.
Anyway my point is we all have to look at the issue objectively and not get caught up in misleading facts and talking points.
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Posted 12/29/15

Irishsushi wrote:


HolyDrumstick wrote:


Irishsushi wrote:

All the places I associate with bland middle class white people have the lost rate of gun murders lol.

Anyway as a firm believer in the right to own guns lets be real you cant say "oh look California has strict gun laws and there are still gun related murders!" and use that as justification that gun control doesn't work. Of course gun control works, its a question whether its right to tell lawful citizens they cant use them. Right next to cali Is arizona where we have some pretty lax gun control laws, all you have to do is buy a gun here and go to cali. Same goes for the rest of the united states.

People need to realize there are always going to be shit-bags that mis-use the freedoms we have. You cant start banning everything becuase a few people are POS's.


Could you prove that gun control works with statistics?

This video, courtesy of thepaladin101, would argue you cannot: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE.


I would challenge you to do so using only the states or the various countries. Whichever better suits you. :)


Australia done. they had a mass shooting banned guns and in 2013 had all but 35 gun-related homicides. Proof enough. Once again i'd like to say I am very much pro gun I own a gun and will probably own more in the future.

Now onto the video:
He points out that the US is 111 of nations involving gun-related homicide. Well that may be the case but of all the industrialized western nations the US is still at the top.

He also mentions Detroit and New Orleans having high murder rates. It doesnt matter that they have gun control if the state next to it doesn't. That seems counter-intuitive to what I am saying, but it is much easier to cross state lines than it is country borders. And what because those places are high you dont want to count them? well then dont count Honduras and Venezuela because those countries are like giant Detroit's.

Lol and that little bit about if the US had the same rate as Plano, Texas. Yeah of course if we choose the best stat we would rank pretty good. But did you notice the country ahead of us in that little blurb? Switzerland A country with pretty high gun control and almost no gun homicides, yet they own a shit ton of guns. You can have gun control and still let people have guns.

His closing statements I agree with its a mentality issue we all have to realize some people will abuse the system. People are doing this to themselves they would rather gloss over solutions just so they can live in there happy little world.

Gun control can work but it will take a number of other outside factors to help the situation.
Anyway my point is we all have to look at the issue objectively and not get caught up in misleading facts and talking points.


So frustrating. Again, you're trying to say there is a correlation between gun control and less gun violence, but that simply isn't true. Switzerland is also low on the list, and everyone has a gun.

AGAIN, it IS more than about gun control, but gun control doesn't help as much as people think it does.

My point is not that we have low gun violence, it is simply that gun control does not change anything. I seriously wish we could test it without permanently losing our rights. Yeah, there may be a little less gun violence, but less murder overall? Probably very slightly.

And very slightly isn't enough to get rid of people's rights.
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Posted 12/29/15
Discussing this information without controlling for a bucket of factors is just silly and even still, there are plenty of states which follow the pattern of low guns and low violent crime and vise versa.
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Posted 12/29/15

sundin13 wrote:

Discussing this information without controlling for a bucket of factors is just silly and even still, there are plenty of states which follow the pattern of low guns and low violent crime and vise versa.


Sure, list them.

LA, for one, I know. I'd like to see you go for at least 10. Then, at the very least you could say that less control does not mean less gun violence. But, that's about all.
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Posted 12/29/15

HolyDrumstick wrote:


sundin13 wrote:

Discussing this information without controlling for a bucket of factors is just silly and even still, there are plenty of states which follow the pattern of low guns and low violent crime and vise versa.


Sure, list them.

LA, for one, I know. I'd like to see you go for at least 10. Then, at the very least you could say that less control does not mean less gun violence. But, that's about all.


I don't think anyone would ever say that gun control is a silver bullet. There are obviously more factors involved. However, that is not to say that decreasing the amount of guns would not decrease the amount of violent crime. You would need to go a lot further than looking at murder rate vs gun ownership by state to speak to that...
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Posted 12/29/15

sundin13 wrote:


HolyDrumstick wrote:


sundin13 wrote:

Discussing this information without controlling for a bucket of factors is just silly and even still, there are plenty of states which follow the pattern of low guns and low violent crime and vise versa.


Sure, list them.

LA, for one, I know. I'd like to see you go for at least 10. Then, at the very least you could say that less control does not mean less gun violence. But, that's about all.


I don't think anyone would ever say that gun control is a silver bullet. There are obviously more factors involved. However, that is not to say that decreasing the amount of guns would not decrease the amount of violent crime. You would need to go a lot further than looking at murder rate vs gun ownership by state to speak to that...


I'm not saying that, either. All I am saying is that you can't say that it WOULD, based on the stats.
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