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Post Reply Socialism promotes slavery
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Posted 12/31/15
Just what I needed an American conservative mistaking the followers with the creed they misunderstand. That sort of logic can be used to make anything look bad. I mean heaven forbid we work for the greater good of humanity. Nope let's keep chasing this selfish individuality that is capitalism and personal desire over the welfare of the many.

I mean it's not like it's causing some horrible imbalances in the global economy or anything..ohh wait it is...
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Posted 12/31/15 , edited 12/31/15

Ranwolf wrote:

Just what I needed an American conservative mistaking the followers with the creed they misunderstand. That sort of logic can be used to make anything look bad. I mean heaven forbid we work for the greater good of humanity. Nope let's keep chasing this selfish individuality that is capitalism and personal desire over the welfare of the many.

I mean it's not like it's causing some horrible imbalances in the global economy or anything..ohh wait it is...


Humans are selfish by nature capitalism recognizes that socialism does not. Capitalism lifted billions out of poverty in fact the poor in America would be considered middle class in most countries around the world. Is capitalism perfect no of course not, but in my opinion it is well suited for the betterment of the majority of people. If we had hardcore socialism what incentive is their for me to try to do my best none because I get taken care of no matter what.
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Posted 12/31/15
Okay Ayn Rand.
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Posted 12/31/15

Ranwolf wrote:

Just what I needed an American conservative mistaking the followers with the creed they misunderstand. That sort of logic can be used to make anything look bad. I mean heaven forbid we work for the greater good of humanity. Nope let's keep chasing this selfish individuality that is capitalism and personal desire over the welfare of the many.

I mean it's not like it's causing some horrible imbalances in the global economy or anything..ohh wait it is...


God or Allah or Darwin made us all different. Some people want to live in a state where a philosopher king tell us what to do for our own good and provides for them like a good parent. Others want to be adults and make their own choices. Try new things. Invent new ways to live. Explore new horizons. This is how humans are made. Different. No one form of government will ever make everyone happy.

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Posted 12/31/15

biscuitnote wrote:


Ranwolf wrote:

Just what I needed an American conservative mistaking the followers with the creed they misunderstand. That sort of logic can be used to make anything look bad. I mean heaven forbid we work for the greater good of humanity. Nope let's keep chasing this selfish individuality that is capitalism and personal desire over the welfare of the many.

I mean it's not like it's causing some horrible imbalances in the global economy or anything..ohh wait it is...


Humans are selfish by nature capitalism recognizes that socialism does not. Capitalism lifted billions out of poverty in fact the poor in America would be considered middle class in most countries around the world. Is capitalism perfect no of course not, but in my opinion it is well suited for the betterment of the majority of people. If we had hardcore socialism what incentive is their for me to try to do my best none because I get taken care of no matter what.


Try and remember you're talking to a soldier I happen to equate my well being with that of the group. The better I do my job the better the group does. That is all the motivation a sane human being needs.

But you're right I forget humanity is made of selfish and insane people who think only their well being matters.
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Posted 12/31/15

Ranwolf wrote:


biscuitnote wrote:


Ranwolf wrote:

Just what I needed an American conservative mistaking the followers with the creed they misunderstand. That sort of logic can be used to make anything look bad. I mean heaven forbid we work for the greater good of humanity. Nope let's keep chasing this selfish individuality that is capitalism and personal desire over the welfare of the many.

I mean it's not like it's causing some horrible imbalances in the global economy or anything..ohh wait it is...


Humans are selfish by nature capitalism recognizes that socialism does not. Capitalism lifted billions out of poverty in fact the poor in America would be considered middle class in most countries around the world. Is capitalism perfect no of course not, but in my opinion it is well suited for the betterment of the majority of people. If we had hardcore socialism what incentive is their for me to try to do my best none because I get taken care of no matter what.


Try and remember you're talking to a soldier I happen to equate my well being with that of the group. The better I do my job the better the group does. That is all the motivation a sane human being needs.

But you're right I forget humanity is made of selfish and insane people who think only their well being matters.


If I'm going to be taken care of no matter what then I don't have to do my best. At its core that is why socialism is an ideology of slaves who need to be protected.
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Posted 12/31/15

biscuitnote wrote:

I don't think this is spoken about enough. But when we break down economic systems, it seems quite obvious to me that socialism seems to promote a slave mindset more so than any other economic system. .


Well, gotta admit, we don't hear people talking about it all that much...In fact, we were sorta wondering why you were talking about it now.
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Posted 12/31/15 , edited 12/31/15
Simply put, socialism and communism are wonderful ideas, in theory.

To me, who is in favor of democracy based capitalism, the problem is that socialism and communism are based on the ideas that people at the top will be good to those at the bottom, if we live all live according to those laws (this is where they both become authoritarian). They are also based on the idea that the government can function as efficiently as private business, which has been shown to be untrue. Even price setting alone, without directly controlling business, can create huge scarcities and surpluses that would not naturally occur.

The problem is that people are flawed, and will in turn corrupt those systems. Democratic capitalism allows for the system to right itself by allowing our natures to work against each other, creating balance.

The problem with capitalism is that it can be exploited by some, and unforgiving to others. Our anti-trust laws do little to cushion this, because of companies working silently in collusion to set prices. This is why gas prices stay relatively the same, at a higher price than is necessary. Collusion is hard to crack down on, because you have to prove it is happening.

Capitalism also leads big business to make decisions based on money, without any consideration for helping their nation, state, community, etc. This is why we're outsourcing so much.

There is also an element of misfortune causing a hard worker to fail regardless of hard work.

Fortunately, the US is not a pure capitalism. We DO have rules in place. Unfortunately, those with money have the power to lobby and pay government officials to keep any more productive rules from being put in place.

Ultimately, I think that most people can agree that a balance between socialism and capitalism is necessary for a healthy economy. The exact balance of those two is what is usually argued over, these days. I also think that most people agree that communism is far too strict and dependent on the government to work for very long, without implementing some capitalist theory.

Generally, when someone is entirely against or for anything absolute, I assume they don't know their ass from their elbow.
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Posted 12/31/15

PeripheralVisionary wrote:


macht_gut wrote:

I would also include government hands outs. As people become dependent on hands outs they lack the motivation to move forward or if they attempt to better themselves, the hand outs are no longer available. This is another form of slavery in my opinion.


If people become too unmotivated that they live on measly handouts, that's not slavery. That's being lazy. Of your own accord.


Could be but it could also mean that that is all they know. Thus continue the cycle of dependence.
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Posted 12/31/15
Corporate capitalism made the average survival rate of surviving slavery down to 3 years during the trans Atlantic slave period. Slaves in owner plantations had a chance of surviving but not those who were unfortunate to be in a plantation belonging to a corporation.

I'd say no one pure system is perfect. Each has it's pros and cons.
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Posted 12/31/15

Werina wrote:

Too much to read


^ That.

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Posted 12/31/15
As does capitalism.


That is part of the matter of illegal migration. Those who are willing to work for slave wages as they do not have the economic freedom to do otherwise. And in doing so their legal liberties are infringed upon as well.


Then there is the matter of outsourcing labour to foreign nations, where again those who don't have the economic freedom to choose otherwise are exploited, often again to where even the loose laws of those nations are infringed.


Then there is the matter of domestic child labor, the collusion between government and business to enact legal slavery such as during Reconstruction in the South, etc.


However, capitalism has been demonstrated to be an economic model where reform is possible, unlike Socialism.
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Posted 12/31/15 , edited 12/31/15
Sounds more like a servant mindset than a slave mindset. One who feels as though he is corralled and has no choices performs out of fear, which seems closer to how a slave would feel. A servant, on the other hand, performs willingly because he perceives his master to be worth serving. He thinks his actions are meaningful and he voluntarily does the master's bidding. Although servitude and slavery are similar in some ways, especially in the reliance on the master, I don't think socialism promotes slavery but it does promote servitude and obedience. Performing because you think your actions are positive and performing because you're afraid are two different things. There's some overlap, but I think they are distinct enough to warrant the line in the sand.

Almost everything we do is bound by the rule of law as long as we are availing ourselves of a government's benefits. In our case, it does not mean there is no cage, it is just that the cage is too big for you or I to really notice. We're used to having these limited options so we only notice once some of those options are taken away and/or enforcement becomes more sure and severe. Does that make us slaves? Not necessarily. I think we're more like servants, stewards of the state.

The law does not need to be in place for you to be a slave. You merely need to be sufficiently restrained by the reasonable fear of a swift and severe punishment that is disproportionate to that which is usually merited by your "wrongful" undertaking. And those undertakings are likely to be endorsed by reasonable and moral people. If the rules controlling servants are words, the rules controlling slaves are physical threats.


HolyDrumstick wrote:

Simply put, socialism and communism are wonderful ideas, in theory.

To me, who is in favor of democracy based capitalism, the problem is that socialism and communism are based on the ideas that people at the top will be good to those at the bottom, if we live all live according to those laws (this is where they both become authoritarian). They are also based on the idea that the government can function as efficiently as private business, which has been shown to be untrue. Even price setting alone, without directly controlling business, can create huge scarcities and surpluses that would not naturally occur.

The problem is that people are flawed, and will in turn corrupt those systems. Democratic capitalism allows for the system to right itself by allowing our natures to work against each other, creating balance.

The problem with capitalism is that it can be exploited by some, and unforgiving to others. Our anti-trust laws do little to cushion this, because of companies working silently in collusion to set prices. This is why gas prices stay relatively the same, at a higher price than is necessary. Collusion is hard to crack down on, because you have to prove it is happening.

Capitalism also leads big business to make decisions based on money, without any consideration for helping their nation, state, community, etc. This is why we're outsourcing so much.

There is also an element of misfortune causing a hard worker to fail regardless of hard work.

Fortunately, the US is not a pure capitalism. We DO have rules in place. Unfortunately, those with money have the power to lobby and pay government officials to keep any more productive rules from being put in place.

Ultimately, I think that most people can agree that a balance between socialism and capitalism is necessary for a healthy economy. The exact balance of those two is what is usually argued over, these days. I also think that most people agree that communism is far too strict and dependent on the government to work for very long, without implementing some capitalist theory.

Generally, when someone is entirely against or for anything absolute, I assume they don't know their ass from their elbow.


I'd have to agree.
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Posted 12/31/15
I think if you go to an extreme of any economic system there will be problems. I can't see why we can't take the good ideas from capitalism and mesh them with socialism.
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Posted 12/31/15 , edited 12/31/15

biscuitnote wrote:


If I'm going to be taken care of no matter what then I don't have to do my best. At its core that is why socialism is an ideology of slaves who need to be protected.


And you're assuming the group i,e society at large is going to put up with your slack. You are mistaking Socialism for something else entirely. Even under the incompetent Soviets those who failed too spectacularly in their duty were punished..Perhaps a little too swiftly and a little too harshly but no system is without a system of reward and punishment.

But you way of thinking and attitude are crystal clear examples why Socialism as it stands wouldn't work as it is now. Too few people understand the concept of duty and self sacrifice. Of working to make the world around them a better place, of putting themselves on the line regardless of the price that has to be paid.

Maybe when people with the kind of mindset that work contrary to the noble nature a human can possess are bred out or killed off maybe Socialism will work.


Irishsushi wrote:

I think if you go to an extreme of any economic system there will be problems. I can't see why we can't take the good ideas from capitalism and mesh them with socialism.


Karl Marx tried that, it might have worked but Russia wasn't the place to try that.
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