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Post Reply Socialism promotes slavery
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Posted 12/31/15 , edited 12/31/15

biscuitnote wrote:


Well the way I see it I can't really lose I come from a pretty well off background and if for some reason socialism happened I would still be provided for and I wouldn't have to work as hard.


Okay I am going to have to call it even if the mods told me in no uncertain terms I can't express my opinion in this method. I am to going to call you on your bullshit and say your understanding of how Socialism works was formed entirely out of cold war era propaganda bullshit your Daddy was spoon fed by the American governments at the time who in turn spoon fed you it as well.

A socialist society that would work would be formed by people who think like I do. That duty,service,and the well being of the group are values to uphold and put above personal gain or ease of life. A Socialist society like that isn't going to give preferential treatment to a man like you simply because of your social-economic background before the Socialist revolution. It certainly isn't going to put up with laziness in it's citizens. Because the sum of parts is what makes it great, a cog in the machine that fails to spin properly is going to hurt the entire performance of the machine called Society.
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Posted 12/31/15 , edited 12/31/15

Ranwolf wrote:


biscuitnote wrote:


Well the way I see it I can't really lose I come from a pretty well off background and if for some reason socialism happened I would still be provided for and I wouldn't have to work as hard.


Okay I am going to have to call it even if the mods told me in no uncertain terms I can't express my opinion in this method. I am to going to call you on your bullshit and say your understanding of how Socialism works was formed entirely out of cold war era propaganda bullshit your Daddy was spoon fed by the American governments at the time who in turn spoon fed you it as well.

A socialist society that would work would be formed by people who think like I do. That duty,service,and the well being of the group are values to uphold and put above personal gain or ease of life. A Socialist society like that isn't going to give preferential treatment to a man like you simply because of your social-economic background before the Socialist revolution. It certainly isn't going to put up with laziness in it's citizens. Because the sum of parts is what makes it great, a cog in the machine that fails to spin properly is going to hurt the entire performance of the machine called Society.


Ok so how is that any different than what we have now? And what are you going to do with the people who don't think like you?
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Posted 12/31/15 , edited 12/31/15

biscuitnote wrote:



Ok so how is that any different than what we have now? And what are you going to do with the people who don't think like you?


Because right now we have over 80% of the world's wealth and resources controlled by individuals whose only contribution to society was being born into families who are well off. That isn't a free society mate, that's the freaking royalty we supposedly abandoned at the dawn of the 20th century or earlier in some cases .

A ruling elite isn't what any sane forefather would have wanted. And the fact you defend the corrupt and diseased system that it has become is just all kinds of messed.
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Posted 12/31/15

Ranwolf wrote:


biscuitnote wrote:



Ok so how is that any different than what we have now? And what are you going to do with the people who don't think like you?


Because right now we have over 80% of the world's wealth and resources controlled by individuals whose only contribution to society was being born into families who are well off. That isn't a free society mate, that's the freaking royalty we supposedly abandoned at the dawn of the 20th century or earlier in some cases .

A ruling elite isn't what any sane forefather would have wanted. And the fact you defend the corrupt and diseased system that it has become is just all kinds of messed.


Well capitalism certainly isn't perfect however it lifted billions out of poverty due to the industrial revolution not to mention all the scientific and medical advancements that have happened due to chasing a dollar. I see nothing wrong with inheritance it's there money to do with as they please and there's still plenty left over. Even the poor drive cars and have tvs that's all thanks to capitalism.
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Posted 12/31/15

biscuitnote wrote:



Well capitalism certainly isn't perfect however it lifted billions out of poverty due to the industrial revolution not to mention all the scientific and medical advancements that have happened due to chasing a dollar. I see nothing wrong with inheritance it's there money to do with as they please and there's still plenty left over. Even the poor drive cars and have tvs that's all thanks to capitalism.


And billions more have died underneath it's banner for causes a Socialist Society would never have faced. And no inheritance isn't their money, it might have been their parents but most wealthy families are generations removed from the forefather whose hard work made them wealthy. A system like that only ensures a elitist schism that will be the death of the so called work ethic you think Capitalist society encourages.

And as matter of fact, no the poor do not all have the luxury of car ownership. With rising fuel and insurance prices car ownership is slowly being priced out of the lower classes range and even the lower middle class is feeling the pinch. Why because a Capitalist society does nothing about price gouging. Mainly because these corporate powers are the reasons a Capitalist society finds itself in power.
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Posted 12/31/15 , edited 12/31/15

Ranwolf wrote:



Just going to sum it up as simply as I can:

You're either delusional or ignorant if you think a socialist society can ever be successful with the current incarnation of mankind.

Why? Because it goes against our very nature. Capitalism actually uses our nature to balance things. Sure, capitalism has its own issues, but that's why there are very few pure capitalist economies in existence. Most governments utilize a combination of capitalist and socialist theory. However, what has been learned through trial and error is that socialism and communism cannot function without the heavy use of capitalist theory. Look at any modern communism to see this. There is only one I know of that isn't using capitalist theory, and all we hear from there are horror stories.

Socialism will never work because it works on the principle of that people will either work hard for society or work hard for what amounts to marginal rewards. That's simply not how things work, though.

How things actually work is that people only work harder out of necessity or for much larger benefits. When they are left to choose between being given everything they need for doing very easy and less skilled labor, or working hard and doing a skilled labor/highly valued labor for the exact same plus what amounts to a few small luxuries, they will almost always choose the easy route.

Capitalism sets up wages based on the same principle of law and demand that rules products. People forget that labor is a resource all its own, which business purchases. Sure, there are some serious issues at the top end of big business, but generally capitalism does a fair job in making things fair.

Now, am I saying that the US doesn't need a little more socialist policy? No, there are places where it IS needed. However, don't throw out the baby with the bathwater, simply because life's tough to you. Life's tough on me, too. However, I still want all my effort to have the ability to pay off. In a socialism, it simply never really does.... which is why entrepreneurship is rare in socialist society.
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Posted 12/31/15 , edited 12/31/15

HolyDrumstick wrote:


Ranwolf wrote:



Just going to sum it up as simply as I can:

You're either delusional or ignorant if you think a socialist society can ever be successful with the current incarnation of mankind.

Why? Because it goes against our very nature. Capitalism actually uses our nature to balance things. Sure, capitalism has its own issues, but that's why there are very few pure capitalist economies in existence. Most governments utilize a combination of capitalist and socialist theory. However, what has been learned through trial and error is that socialism and communism cannot function without the heavy use of capitalist theory. Look at any modern communism to see this. There is only one I know of that isn't using capitalist theory, and all we hear from there are horror stories.

Socialism will never work because it works on the principle of that people will either work hard for society or work hard for what amounts to marginal rewards. That's simply not how things work, though.

How things actually work is that people only work harder out of necessity or for much larger benefits. When they are left to choose between being given everything they need for doing very easy and less skilled labor, or working hard and doing a skilled labor/highly valued labor for the exact same plus what amounts to a few small luxuries, they will almost always choose the easy route.

Capitalism sets up wages based on the same principle of law and demand that rules products. People forget that labor is a resource all its own, which business purchases. Sure, there are some serious issues at the top end of big business, but generally capitalism does a fair job in making things fair.

Now, am I saying that the US doesn't need a little more socialist policy? No, there are places where it IS needed. However, don't throw out the baby with the bathwater, simply because life's tough to you. Life's tough on me, too. However, I still want all my effort to have the ability to pay off. In a socialism, it simply never really does.... which is why entrepreneurship is rare in socialist society.


I rather believe in my second or third post on this matter I freely admitted the current nature of humanity would likely doom any pure Socialist Society.

What I am interested in though is why greedy capitalists consider the betterment of the world instead of personal gain a lacking and wanting reward. Maybe it's because I was raised by a soldier and became one the very day I could legally but I find those who put themselves above what is best for all sub humans.
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Posted 12/31/15
War is Peace

Freedom is Slavery

Ignorance is Strength
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Posted 12/31/15 , edited 12/31/15

Ranwolf wrote:


HolyDrumstick wrote:


Ranwolf wrote:



I rather believe in my second or third post on this matter I freely admitted the current nature of humanity would likely doom any pure Socialist Society.

What I am interested in though is why greedy capitalists consider the betterment of the world instead of personal gain a lacking and wanting reward. Maybe it's because I was raised by a soldier and became one the very day I could legally but I find those who put themselves above what is best for all sub humans.


I agree that the level of greed by those at the top, and the evident lack of social responsibility, is sickening. I just don't understand advocating a socialist form of government.

I do, however, have this radical notion that the wealthiest among us should have to spend a certain percentage of earnings towards the creation of a domestic jobs reflecting that amount. Any downsizing should be calculated into this. If they did not, simply bump up taxes by a certain percentage. The idea is: paying employees who could possibly earn you more money > straight taxes. It wouldn't have to be enough to hurt their profits, just enough to force them to be somewhat socially responsible.

This would actually create an incentive for the big players to innovate, enter new fields, and attempt to expand on GDP. It would also give businessmen a reason to enter well established "competitive markets" where collusion is happening, such as the cell phone or oil markets, disrupting that collusion, driving prices down.

NOW, I know that's a really rough idea, but it IS something that people could tinker with.

EDIT: Competitive market is in quotations because they aren't truly competitive, but are labeled as such. True competitive markets have prices set by consumers. Collusion disrupts this natural process in a capitalist economy.
Posted 12/31/15
No offense, but I just don't see the connection between the Affordable Healthcare Act, TANF, and various other policies of domestic welfare and slavery.
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Posted 12/31/15
ITT:
Internet education reigns supreme. No college diplomas here, move along, move along.
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Posted 12/31/15

BradleyDMC wrote:

ITT:
Internet education reigns supreme. No college diplomas here, move along, move along.


Care to explain who you're trying to insult, there?
Posted 12/31/15 , edited 1/1/16

Ranwolf wrote:

I rather believe in my second or third post on this matter I freely admitted the current nature of humanity would likely doom any pure Socialist Society.

What I am interested in though is why greedy capitalists consider the betterment of the world instead of personal gain a lacking and wanting reward. Maybe it's because I was raised by a soldier and became one the very day I could legally but I find those who put themselves above what is best for all sub humans.


No offense but I find those who think what always best for the group is the right thing to do. To be giving themselves an excuse to be assholes. To ignore any different way of thinking a the expense of one individual or group. Just because it happens to be in the minority. I no saying you or the other guy is wrong. I could care less who right. Nor I am saying this way of thinking is wrong. But if you think what always best for the group the right thing to do. Sorry to disappoint you but you are no better than they are and you are just giving yourself an excuse to ignore other ways of thinking.

I find those who put themselves above what is best for all sub humans.
Posted 12/31/15 , edited 1/1/16

KarenAraragi wrote:

No offense but I find those who think what always best for the group the righting to do. To be giving them selves a excuse to be assholes. To ignore any different way of thinking a the expense of one individual or group. Just because it happens to be in the minority. I no saying you or the other guy is wrong. I could care less who right. Nor I am saying this way of thinking is wrong. But if you think what always best for the group the righting to do. Sorry to disappoint you but you are no better than they are and you are just giving yourself a excuse to ignore other ways of thinking.


I couldn't understand your first sentence, missing a few words I presume?
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