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How President Obama & Hillary Clinton Created I.S.I.S. -This is really big, I mean, really BIG.
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Posted 1/2/16



So when you can't come up with an argument, you just ignore everything I say and go back to the same old message that I already countered? I guess I'll just say it one more time to see if it actually sinks into your head.

Nobody in their right mind would support their government taking illegal actions against their own citizens. All of this mass surveillance nonsense is nothing more than excuse for a police state. There's not one time that a terrorist has ever been caught from these illegal surveillance programs. It makes no sense to say otherwise when the proof is clearly stacked against you. Don't try to say "oh but then the terrorists will kill more people." That's not relevant. There's absolutely no connection between indiscriminate spying and catching terrorists. That's just a lie politicians use to convince ignorant people that they need to be spied on 24/7.

I don't know what kind of brainwashing it takes to convince a person that helping out their fellow citizens against tyranny is the same as terrorism or anarchy. That sounds like something the North Korean government would try to tell its people. By that logic, you would also have to call George Washington a terrorist. If you see people in positions of authority abusing their powers on innocent people, it would only be right to want to expose them. Otherwise you're just giving the abusers a free pass.

As for your comment about the U.K. not being spied on to the extent that the U.S. does, that's a cute little fantasy but you really should do more research on what your own country is doing. Here's a recent article that gives you a clue about how intrusive your country's surveillance is:
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-34713435

That's pretty much what a lot of pro-surveillance lawmakers here in the U.S. are trying to accomplish.


If you're going to post a link to prove a point, it might help to post a link to a page that actually exists

Of course nobody wants their government to take illegal actions against them and spy on them non-stop. Mass surveilance isn't the answer and I never said it was. But if I had to pick one of the two, I'd pick being spied on over being blown up.

I am aware that the UK has started getting more strict with it's surveillance. It was recently in the news that the government wants to monitor everything we do online, which I am sure nobody is happy with. But hey, still better than all the crazy crap America does. Years ago the US government were actually kidnapping people and testing drugs and torture methods on them.

As for Edward Snowden, it's not what he did but WHY he did it. Revealing the illegal goings on of the CIA might sound like a heroic thing to do, and it would be if he was doing it because he genuinely wanted to stop the government acting immorally and protect US citizens. But he doesn't. He just wants a cause to fight against. And now he is feeding information to terrorists to make their jobs easier.

Have you ever heard of Jimmy Saville? He committed terrible sexual abuse against many young girls. But he also did a lot of charity work. So because he did all that charity work, does that somehow make the sexual abuse irrelevant? I don't think so.
md4124 
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Posted 1/2/16 , edited 1/2/16
Only a moron would believe that kind of You Tube garbage.
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Posted 1/2/16

eclair-lumiere wrote:

If you're going to post a link to prove a point, it might help to post a link to a page that actually exists

Of course nobody wants their government to take illegal actions against them and spy on them non-stop. Mass surveilance isn't the answer and I never said it was. But if I had to pick one of the two, I'd pick being spied on over being blown up.

I am aware that the UK has started getting more strict with it's surveillance. It was recently in the news that the government wants to monitor everything we do online, which I am sure nobody is happy with. But hey, still better than all the crazy crap America does. Years ago the US government were actually kidnapping people and testing drugs and torture methods on them.

As for Edward Snowden, it's not what he did but WHY he did it. Revealing the illegal goings on of the CIA might sound like a heroic thing to do, and it would be if he was doing it because he genuinely wanted to stop the government acting immorally and protect US citizens. But he doesn't. He just wants a cause to fight against. And now he is feeding information to terrorists to make their jobs easier.

Have you ever heard of Jimmy Saville? He committed terrible sexual abuse against many young girls. But he also did a lot of charity work. So because he did all that charity work, does that somehow make the sexual abuse irrelevant? I don't think so.


I'm not sure why you can't see the link. It works just fine for me.

As I've said over and over again, there's no point trying to defend mass surveillance saying it keeps you safe. It doesn't keep you safe so please stop using that excuse. There's never been a terrorist who's been caught by the government spying on everybody. It's useless to try to pretend otherwise.

How can you claim that you know Edward Snowden leaked information just because he wanted to cause trouble? His actions don't suggest that at all and I doubt you know him personally to be saying such things about the way his mind works. Also, he never helped terrorists. Like I told you before, read the article that you posted earlier instead of getting all your information from misleading headlines. It sounds like you're just demonizing a man who risked his life to expose corruption just because you're too paranoid of a threat that has no connection to what Snowden has done.
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Posted 1/2/16 , edited 1/3/16
I'm having a hard time figuring out how Obama and Hillary "Created ISIS" when it already existed. I'm afraid you're one administration behind times. George W. Bush "made" ISIS when Ambassador Bremer disbanded the Iraqi military after the Iraq War. Any idea what happens to 250,000+ trained soldiers when they get fired and put out on the street without a paycheck? They don't just disappear. ISIS must have had a field day recruiting from all those trained soldiers. They knew where explosives were stored and how to use them. Small wonder why 380+ tons of military-grade high-explosives went missing. The explosives, in the IED's that were able to take out main battle tanks, were sure as hell not cooked up in someone's bathtub. It's hard to decide which was the more boneheaded decision, disbanding the Iraqi military or invading Iraq to begin with. Stop trying to rewrite History and make-believe the History of ISIS and terrorism started on Jan 20th 2009.
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Posted 1/2/16 , edited 1/2/16
Here are some interesting reads:

Putin Accuses Some G-20 Nations of Backing ISIS - http://bit.ly/1OBH0Oj

ISIS: The 'Enemy' The US Created, Armed, & Funded - http://bit.ly/1OE46tE

Ex-US Intelligence Officials Confirm: Secret Pentagon Report Proves US Complicity In Creation Of ISIS - http://bit.ly/1BV76GU

Proof that U.S. Is Directly Supporting ISIS? - http://bit.ly/1OEdVI0

Where Does ISIS Get All Those Tanks, Weapons And Shiny New Toyota Trucks? - http://bit.ly/1MO2ar7
Posted 1/3/16 , edited 1/8/16
I'm in.

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Posted 1/3/16



I'm not sure why you can't see the link. It works just fine for me.

As I've said over and over again, there's no point trying to defend mass surveillance saying it keeps you safe. It doesn't keep you safe so please stop using that excuse. There's never been a terrorist who's been caught by the government spying on everybody. It's useless to try to pretend otherwise.

How can you claim that you know Edward Snowden leaked information just because he wanted to cause trouble? His actions don't suggest that at all and I doubt you know him personally to be saying such things about the way his mind works. Also, he never helped terrorists. Like I told you before, read the article that you posted earlier instead of getting all your information from misleading headlines. It sounds like you're just demonizing a man who risked his life to expose corruption just because you're too paranoid of a threat that has no connection to what Snowden has done.


I can't see the link because the page supposedly doesn't exist.

I'm not trying to defend mass surveillance. I would tell you to read my posts properly but since you've been unable to twice now that would be a wast of time.

Maybe not every piece of information is in that one article, but it's definitely been reported in the news that he has been helping terrorists by giving them information. Exposing corruption is fine, but rebelling against a corrupt government by killing innocent people is just disgusting.

Also, you Americans seem to have a very weird idea of what the UK is like. You mentioned something about "big brother" earlier. How about you stop basing your ideas of what the UK is like from a reality tv show? And an obviously staged one at that. We don't all live in the Big Brother house and have cameras watching us.
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Posted 1/3/16 , edited 1/3/16

eclair-lumiere wrote:

I can't see the link because the page supposedly doesn't exist.

I'm not trying to defend mass surveillance. I would tell you to read my posts properly but since you've been unable to twice now that would be a wast of time.

Maybe not every piece of information is in that one article, but it's definitely been reported in the news that he has been helping terrorists by giving them information. Exposing corruption is fine, but rebelling against a corrupt government by killing innocent people is just disgusting.


I don't understand why you always have such a difficult time reading my posts. I'm not asking you to perform brain surgery. I write my posts as simple as possible just to make it easier for you to understand. Maybe I should just write everything in giant colorful letters so you don't miss it. I'll say this one final time. If you still refuse to read anything, this conversation is over.

As I've said a million times already, Edward Snowden has never helped terrorists and he has never killed anyone. I don't know what so called "news" has been telling you this, but that's completely inaccurate. I highly recommend getting your information from real news sources or at the very least wait until something has been proven before believing every outrageous statement you hear. Like I said before, if you would read beyond the misleading headline of that article you posted, you would know that it's about a single angry man throwing false accusations at Snowden without any proof.

Apparently you don't even know what you're saying since you claim you're not defending mass surveillance, even though your entire argument has been you saying that it's necessary to keep you safe, which isn't even true. There has never been a single terrorist caught by spying on ordinary citizens indiscriminately. Your entire reason for supporting mass surveillance is built on lies. Taking it away will not increase the likelihood of someone getting blown up by a jihadist. You're just denying facts because you don't like being proven wrong. So far your only reason for hating Snowden is because you easily believe whatever lie you hear.



Also, you Americans seem to have a very weird idea of what the UK is like. You mentioned something about "big brother" earlier. How about you stop basing your ideas of what the UK is like from a reality tv show? And an obviously staged one at that. We don't all live in the Big Brother house and have cameras watching us.


What in the world are you talking about? What "reality tv show" do you think I'm getting my ideas from? I'm getting my ideas from proven facts in the real world and actual statistics. Everything you're saying shows just how ignorant you are about your own country. It's commonly known that the U.K. generally (I use this word because I know there are many exceptions) supports mass surveillance and even believe it's necessary, much like what you've been telling me this whole time. I suppose this crazy phenomenon can be partly explained by the fact that your government keeps you ignorant on this subject. Even within the government, only a handful of people are fully informed about the capacity that you're being spied on, even after the Snowden leaks.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/05/nick-clegg-cabinet-mass-surveillance-british-spying

I suppose the same can be said about our government here in the U.S. but at least there's some outrage among our citizens and lawmakers. Anyways, you really should do your own research on what is going on within your own country before spreading misinformation and pretending you know everything. It only makes you look childish right now.
19124 cr points
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Posted 1/3/16
if it's on the internet, it has to be true!
Posted 1/3/16 , edited 1/3/16
Of course I believe!

I also believe in Santa Claus and Wookies!

Yeah!
7467 cr points
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Posted 1/3/16
world war 3 is close by!
Axellz 
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Posted 1/3/16
Humanity...lol
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Posted 1/3/16

eclair-lumiere wrote:

If you're going to post a link to prove a point, it might help to post a link to a page that actually exists

Works just fine

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Posted 1/3/16

WeeabooWarrior wrote:

Just take 45 minutes and watch




Thats a lot of time
Posted 1/4/16

Em0SceneStabr wrote:


WeeabooWarrior wrote:

Just take 45 minutes and watch




Thats a lot of time


Break it down into 5 minutes.
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